LinvilleGorge

14/24 for 54 yards and an INT with the playoffs on the line. People talking about us "winning" the division ignore that we did all we could to lose it and just got lucky with tiebreaker. We lost our last two and three of our last four with a playoff berth right there for the taking taking. Bryce threw for over 200 yards in one of those finl four games games.

He always showed the physical talent though. He's just a guy who absolutely cracks of you put the weight of the offense on him. You have to treat him like a game manager and as such you shouldn't pay him like a franchise QB because he's not. Sam Darnold is a high level game manager. Bryce is a poverty level game manager. Bryce should be making the type of money that we gave Pickett. Pickett should be making vet minimum desperately trying to stay in the league, like Will Grier.

I knew within two games that this dude didn't have NFL level talent and was never going be a legit starter. It was painfully obvious. It still is. The Panthers just refuse to acknowledge it.

Those aren't deficiencies. Replicating deficiencies is illogical. specifically targeting QBs with subpar arm strength is illogical.

And yet here we are...

There's no logic in specifically targeting players who lack key NFL talent measurable. Logic says to not do that. Never in my life have I heard anyone attempt to argue that if your starting player lacks in a key area that you should target backups who also lack in that same area. That's because it's illogical.

I'm not one that's too big into workouts unless the workouts are historical outliers. His lower body explosion numbers are definitely historical outliers in the wrong way.

My least favorite pick but I hope he proves me wrong.

I'd settle for about any 5th rpund journeyman who can reliably throw a football 20+ yards against NFL defenses. It is not a tall task to find better arm talent than is in our locker room.

Hope Bryce faceplants and this upcoming QB class turns put to be all that it's hyped up to be.

I'd just focus on building the best roster I could and my focus this year at QB would have been finding a guy to put some serious heat on Bryce, not building a QB room that seems to be assembled with the primary objective of not hurting Bryce's fee fees.

It makes no sense to pile up guys who have marginal NFL arm strength. Would you pile up corners and receivers who run 4.7 40s? Linemen who can't put up 20 reps on the bench? No, focusing on accumulating players with marginal NFL talent level doesn't make any sense.

Bingo. Sure seems like not having an arm that might make Bryce look bad in comparison is the primary criteria for being added to the QB room in Carolina because we sure are piling up guys who have subpar at best NFL arms.

The rhetoric from the Panthers on this since day one has been that they have "conviction" on Bryce and no amount of evidence to the contrary was going to convince them otherwise. It seems like we've gone out of our way to avoid putting any pressure on him, at least publicly and seemingly internally if roster construction is any indication.

I sure hope that's the thought process inside the Panthers' organization but I seriously doubt it.

Bryce is at absolutely most generous a D- considering the overall investment of the #1 overall pick and the trade to acquire it. Zavala is the only clear passing grade in the class. C+ seems about right to me. Not a great pick but also not a bad pick in the 4th round. If you can consistently add serviceable depth in the 4th and 5th rounds you're building out your roster on the cheap and that's what you have to do in the mid to late rounds. Well managed teams consistently find roster caliber players in those rounds. Starters and stars are obviously nice to have but once you get past round 3 serviceable depth is a passing grade.

You keep mischaractetizing arguments because you have to. Your arguments can't stand alone. Weak OTs does not mean trash OL. It means you're weak at OT. I specifically said Olsen was a great TE. You don't have a good argument so you're having to resort to intellectual dishonesty to try to float a bad argument.

8 Pro Bowlers = "the Pro Bowl roster" says the guy begging "please let's be accurate". Embarrassing.

A big part of the issue here seems to be that you simply interpret words typed as what you want to argue against not what was actually said while you flip flop between rookie season and SB season combining the best of both rosters.

Trai Turner wasn't an OT. I shouldn't have to explain that. J. Stew went to the Pro Bowl with under 1000 rushing yards (8th in the league) on barely over 4ypc (28th) and only 6 TDs (tied for 22nd)... because we went 15-1. You're leaning awfully hard into this "rookie year" thing so let's look more at the offense in that ROY season... Cam was 10th in the league in passing yardage, 12th in TDs, 2nd in rushing TDs with the Panthers being 7th in yards gained and 6th in points scored. Anymore trash tier arguments you'd like to offer up? Because you're flailing bad.

Rookie season being key to uour argument. I didn't at all mislead about the talent Cam had to work with. Kalil was a great center. Olsen was a great TE. Our WRs were probably the worst in the league. Cam still won MVP, we went 15-1, and we went to the SB. Your attempt to bring up Cam to defend Bryce is desperate and clownish. Bryce has more talent to work with and has done WAY less.

Yes, the QB who went 15-1 and made it to the SB with Ted Ginn Jr. as his #1 WR while also often leading the team in rushing and rushing TDs with a revolving door of largely trash tier OTs is super comparable to Bryce Young. Clownish argument. The thing we are doing better this time around is actually surrounding our #1 overall draft pick QB with talent vs. asking him to completely carry the offense. I just hope that effort is leading us to realize that the guy isn't even good enough to get carried.

No. Physical tools alone aren't enough. There are plenty of examples of draft busts to support that. Aost all of them had the physical tools and that wasn't enough. But Bryce is a perfect example of the opposite. Absolutely elite intangibles aren't enough either. If you simply don't have the physical abilities all the football intelligence and work ethic in the world won't be enough to overcome it. Just look to the sidelines every Sunday. We call those people "coaches".

If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance. But that means you basically have to recreate Saban's Bama in the NFL and that's impossible... and Bryce couldn't win a championship in that environment either. What the Panthers didn't realize when they got so obsessed with his "PG mentality" was that what they were looking st was a "barely checks the box PG". The basketball equivalent of Bryce would be an undersized PG with marginal athleticism who can make the basic plays but adds nothing to the team in terms of elevating the overall team. Not a great shooter, not a great defender, not a great driver. Just a guy who can basically get you into the offense and be a matador on defense. Basically a placeholder while you look to upgrade the PG position.

If we're just objectively looking at his numbers compared to other starting QBs, he actually really is horrible. Bryce's improvement has been moving from a guy who didn't look like he belonged on an NFL roster to graduating to potentially good backup/journeyman stopgap starter level.