LinvilleGorge

Demonstrably false. He is MUCH better with Cam. In two seasons with Cutler: 101 catches on 178 targets for a 56.7% catch percentage with a 10.05ypc average and averaging 508 yards per season on 89 targets per season. In four seasons with Cam: 271 catches on 425 targets for a 63.7% catch percentage with a 11.85ypc average and averaging 802 yards per season on 106 targets per season. If you drop the first season where his catch percentage was much lower than the last three at 50%, you get a catch percentage of 67.4% So, let's do the extrapolation for Cutler... Based on the averages, if Olsen averaged those 106 targets per season with Cutler, he'd average: 60 catches for 603 yards.

It's not ~30 "imaginary plays". It's called extrapolation. You won't know what that means, so let me help you with that: In mathematics, extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation range, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable. Sorry, obviously statistics are over your head. My bad. I'll try to remember that in the future.

I think Wilson shows a pretty good arm. What he does that I've never been able to understand is what SOJA alluded to. The guy throws some crazy poo up there that looks like it's 50/50 INT or incomplete with no chance of a completion, yet time and time again it gets completed. It looks lucky as poo, but it's hard to call it luck when the guy has been doing it dating all the way back to college that I know of but I'm sure even earlier than that. I just knew that stuff would catch up to him at the NFL level but it hasn't yet. I don't really count the back breaking SB INT as one of those. That was a poorly thrown ball, but not the type of crazy throw that I'm talking about. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about: Hell, there was a great example of one in the Super Bowl right before the INT. I was just shaking my head because I thought RW and that lucky horseshoe he has wedged in his ass were gonna pull off insanity again. Then that horseshoe finally fell out.

Hell, Hurney overpaid everybody. The guy was like:

Hell, I thought it was a complement. I think many people have forgotten how good Jake was at his best.

No, I just used stats to show you that the difference wasn't major. You leaned on media hype, bulk stats, and what you assumed to be the truth to form your opinion. Now you're butthurt that the stats didn't bear that out. That catch percentage yielded an additional 8 catches and 103 yards for LaFell compared to what he would've been expected to get in Carolina with the same number of targets. Explain why Cam suffered a 10% drop in completion percentage when throwing to LaFell? Did Cam throw the ball differently when he was targeting LaFell? Everyone else seemed to do okay. Also in 2013... Greg Olsen 67%. Steve Smith 59%. The only Panther who had a lower catch percentage than LaFell was Ginn at 52% and we all know he had a lot more downfield bombs which will always translate to a lower percentage of completions.

RW is a good QB with clutch ability. He's not elite. He's basically Jake Delhomme with running ability.

LaFell's stats through the first two weeks in 2013: 4 catches for 13 yards. Try again.

Let's take a look at that "career year" Lafell had. In 2013 with the Panthers, he caught 49 passes out of 88 targets (55.7% of targets caught) for 627 yards for a 12.8 yard average and 5 TDs (10.2% of catches going for TDs). In 2013, Cam's passing accuracy was 61.7%, so he suffered about a 10% drop when throwing to LaFell. In 2014 with the Pats, he caught 74 passes out of 119 targets (62% of targets caught) for 953 yards for a 12.9 yard average and 7 TDs (9.5% of catches going for TDs). In 2014, Brady's passing accuracy was 64.1%, so he also suffered a drop in efficiency when throwing to LaFell albeit not as large of a drop as Cam did.B If he got 119 targets in Carolina's offense his production would've been the following based on his 2013 stats: 66 catches for 848 yards and 7 TDs (6.7 to be exact). Basically, LaFell is the guy he has always been. He got a small benefit from Brady's increased accuracy, but the bigger benefit from simply being in a more pass heavy offense. It was probably good for him to get away from Cam's bullets. He just couldn't handle them.

Agholor

Tough to do it in football. The QB position in and of itself is so much more important than any other position in the major team sports.

You can't compare RW to Cam. RW has largely been a game manager during his NFL career while on the other hand, Cam has largely been asked to BE our offense.

It's just not that simple in terms of #6 WR vs. #1 CB. For one, I don't think the #1 CB will be there at #25 anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. Also, not all draft classes are created equal. Some positions are stronger than others. Once again, this looks like a pretty damn strong WR class. I've already said that I don't necessarily see anything special about Agholor either and I wouldn't take him in the 1st round. If he's still on the board when we're picking in the 2nd though, he becomes intriguing.

I liked Coates until I watched more games. LOVED the guy after watching him absolutely SHRED Alabama. But, some games he just plain doesn't show up. Is he the guy who shredded Bama for 206 yards and 2 TDs? The guy who had 144 yards and a TD vs. LSU? The guy who had another 122 yards and a TD vs. Ole Miss? I mean, he looks like a top 15 pick in those games. The problem is that in the other nine games of the season he did about jack poo. A total of 269 yards in those other nine games COMBINED. Not one single TD in those games. You want a guy who shows up for three games a season in the 2nd round? Hell no.

He played 13 games. Let's give him those other three. Comes out to 519 yards. Still good for 4th on that roster. Still about 60 yards less than Jerricho Cotchery had last year. Wasn't a factor of targets either. Giving him those extra three games, he would've had about seven more targets than Cotchery did. Even missing three games, he only had nine fewer targets than Cotchery. Giving him those extra three games, he would've actually had six more targets.

Can an Agholor supporter break down for me why he's better than Marquise Lee? What's the difference? Lee put up better numbers at USC. Similar size. Similar workout numbers. Lee was the 4th leading receiver for the Jags last season as a rookie.

I'm definitely not on board with taking Agholor in the 1st, but your 5th or 5th best WR in the draft argument just doesn't hold water considering KB was the 5th WR taken in last year's draft. Now, he may have been ranked higher than the #5 WR according to Gettleman, but he was the 5th off the board.

I haven't watched enough of his games to really draw a conclusion, but during the gauntlet drill at the combine it looked as if his hands were allergic to footballs.

I could not possibly disagree more.

If we end up taking Nelson Agholor at #25 over Jaelen Strong, I'm going to throw an intense hissy fit. Just fair warning.

Okay, so basically he's a terrible blocker who you're making excuses for. Got it.

I'd have no problem with Agholor in the 2nd, but the knock on his blocking is legit. But, to be fair, very few college WRs block at an NFL ready level. Most of them are terrible blockers, Agholor included.

No. Agholor is faster. It's just that the difference in a tenth or so of a second in straight line speed is pretty marginal. If a guy is thought to be a 4.4 guy and runs a 4.5, I don't think scouts really re-evaluate that guy. He's still basically who you thought he was. Now, if he runs 4.6+, that's when they probably go back and have another look. A slow 40 is a big reason why Keenan Allen fell out of the 1st round after many thought he was a top 10 early in the process. Turned out he should've been a top 10 pick, but when a WR runs that slow, it's definitely a huge red flag. Didn't matter with Allen.

Highly likely. I just put his name on the list because of that ACL injury. A lot of teams probably won't even consider him in the 1st or 2nd due to that alone. But, it only takes one...

Gregory is an idiot though. His slipping, if it's happening, isn't due to his abilities or on-field play. It's due to him failing a drug test at the combine and teams digging into his personal life doing their background work on him. IMO, movement on draft boards has more to do with off-field research than it does on-field play and actual football abilities. These scouts know who a guy is on the field. Unless workouts are jaw droppingly good or head shakingly bad, they're primarily just used to confirm what they've already seen on tape. But, digging in and doing the background research on a guy, that can really change some things. Don't be surprised if all the "analysts" are all in an uproar if DGB doesn't even get a glance from teams in the first two rounds. His draft status almost completely hinges on that off-field background research.