strato

I bet my opinion of ‘why’ will not align with yours. I see it as people are resorting to arguing false premises. We see it daily in the real world. Their motivations are what they are, I could say it is because the real doesn’t favor their feelings. But I can’t really know that. I don’t know why a person resorts to that but it happens all the time. PS and BTW, Underhill wasn’t alone in arguing that, and I don’t think he was the instigator, he picked up the torch. I take back my apologies to these folks because now I see what their claims were based on. False premises.

Here is another: You are being intentionally obtuse with this 20 yard BS and don’t like being called on it. PS it wasn’t intended as a burn, it was more of an assessment of reality. And what do you know, here we are talking.

We have a language barrier here. CRA saying he can’t play beyond 20 yards is NOT saying he can’t throw the ball 20 yards. That ain’t the flex you think it is.

I don’t think he can be great. For me he tops out as starter maybe make the playoffs, stuff like that. I would have been okay with that kind of player as a placeholder but you don’t invest the time and assets we did and be happy with that. On the cure,If a guy has mechanical flaws but otherwise is enticing, you let someone else make the mistake of taking him in the top of the 1st. If he doesn’t get taken you can pick him up 2nd or 3rd day and try to develop him (off the bench not starting). The risk/reward with Bryce was horribly misjudged. I didn’t want to trade like that in the first place because I didn’t see the generation talent that justifies that type of move, but once it was done CJ was the better gamble. No doubt.

Remember right before Frank was fired when his footwork issues became a point of contention with Tepper? Tepper wanted the footwork fixed immediately. This week. Lol. Frank told him it wasn’t an in season project. In so many words. That it would have to be done in the offseason. Frank knew what he was seeing, I mean come on. He played quarterback his whole life and coached them. He knew what kind of project Bryce was. And it is like the 7 on 7 success we hear about, that’s great unless you vacant repeat it when people are trying to hit you. Meaning there is only so much you can do in the offseason. You can drill and drill and drill some more but it will not get put to the real test until you get out on the field in live league games. As to the offseason relaxing and all, I am a perfectionist by nature. I see what is deficient and want it addressed. I had the same issue with Cam over his mechanics and what he did in the offseason. The difference is, with Cam it kept him from being, I’m my view, truly one of the all time greats. He was just plain great. So he could get by just fine on his God given physical tools and competitive spirit With Bryce it is the difference with being out of the league or being a viable NFL QB. I mean for him it threatens his career. There is no getting by on immense natural ability to fall back on.

Thatks funny because just this morning I read a couple ‘you Bryce haters don’t understand’ implying that only one side does. I do agree it is pointless talking with you but some things are hard to let pass so I expect we both will continue.

And winning the Super Bowl was supposed to be the whole point in doing that insane trade up and picking him. It was a big pointless fail.

And this is his third year. As far as people not understanding things, I am not sure people accept how difficult it is to remake yourself from the ground up. Which he absolutely has to do to compete successfully at the NFL level. He takes a step forward with the footwork and a step back when he is stressed and reverts to what always worked for him before. I will say it yet again, anyone that reached a level of success with their self taught technique but needed to rebuild to break through the limitations that imposed, will understand this. I don’t care what specific activity it is the same challenge. Muscle memory and comfort level fight against the new moves you are trying to train yourself to do without thinking. He is there. There is a ceiling with his technique that is too low for the NFL. He has to retrain himself. We are in the third year and I guess we are supposed believe that he will be so good when he finally gets to where the new will be second nature, that we have to wait (how many more years) for him to finish doing it. If he ever finishes. The sad fact is he will not succeed at the NFL level with his horrible college footwork and compensation moves like the tippy toe drop backs. He just won’t. If he can’t put that on the table for us, we would be foolish to not seek an alternative plan.

I see a bit of a ‘you Bryce doubters just don’t understand’ condescension and not just from one person.

My only logical conclusion for these overthrows downfield which I’d estimate they are generally in the 30-35 yard range give or take, is from watching that video I referenced of the two NFL QBs and their test with the targets and the radar gun. I posted a summary of it somewhere last night - it basically showed their accuracy with normal throwing effort and contrasted/compared it throws made with maximum effort. A ‘rare back and throw it as hard as you can’ fastball, if you will. They were missing high a lot. It wasn’t really a lot because they only made a few throws like that but the tendency was to overthrow, overshoot, etc. So maybe that is a factor there. It kind of stands to reason that he is trying to get more on it.

It isn’t weird if you have read the board for years and haven’t seen it. What’s weird to me is people that take that to heart and cling to it for years when if was said it couldn’t have been meant literally. 5 yards… right. That!s like someone claiming he can throw a pass 70 yards, well I know that’s just bullshit. And I am not bringing that up as some kind of ammo in an argument.

Maybe people need to have a reasonable filter to help them differentiate exaggeration for effect from serious claims.

Yeah and I am doubtful he can offer that consistently. I don’t have many years left at my age and in my view we have wasted two and this whole exercise with him was always a three year minimum. I am out on that with a guy I don’t believe in, and never believed in, it has sucked. To me it is a costly detour off the right track. Years. But I am not so rigid that I can’t see excellence. He needs to display it though, consistently before I change my outlook.

Exactly. And the flame throwers as well, get location benefits from not going all out. But they have it in reserve. Not sure how much Greg had but he was an artist. There was a YouTube I came across last year or maybe even 2023 and I don’t how to even find now but it had two NFL QBs I want say one was Carr from the Raiders but I don’t really remember The point of it is they stood side by side throwing identical distances to identical targets. Radar gun was used. They threw the normal effort (not all out) and it was measured etc. Then they were asked to throw their ‘fastball’. They were missing and most often they were missing high. It demonstrated the same principle. edit: and applying that to arm strength, give me the guy that doesn’t need max effort to have good velocity. The margins are so narrow with less velocity in tne NFL the defenders can Close on it and this is a league where they value down to the 100th of a second level. It is that tight

He has done it before. Stand in and plant and step up into pressure making the throw. There was a pretty good play on Sunday where he was in tight quarters and hung in there. He did it when he came back last year. But in preseason he was bailing again plain as day. Hearing footsteps, avoiding being hit. I don’t know. He just doesn’t stick with it.

You are characterizing skepticism or negative perception as rage and hate and vitriol and whatever else. Then you say they/we need to rein in the hyperbole. Ironic because I view your choice of words there as hyperbole. That said there is fear that he will do just enough to fool people into seeing him as the future and give him more time. Yet another year. I am there and feel like we need a very clear answer and want it this year. I don’t want to be in the same position again next year. Like, I really don’t want that. He has to tear it up for me to believe it isn’t a temporary thing and he’ll just go back to the annual week one and week two complete suckage routine. Again.

I think at some point you top out what God gave you. He can use leverage via his mechanics to maximize what he has and When he pays attention to it the throws are better. IMO as a layman a lot of it is what kind of ‘headroom’ you have. The guys who are gifted don’t have to use maximum effort to get good results and stay within themselves but they have it in reserve. They can do an arm throw for substantial distance without max effort. I think what we may be seeing with these ‘lasers’ is a throw that Bryce puts the max effort into and does his mechanics right and has his base right and it works together. To get to the payoff here, I think his best velocity throws take dall that whereas a naturally gifted guy doesn’t need to go full effort to get that same velocity. I have said this three or four times over the years and it never gets picked up on but the accuracy is more consistent with an easier motion and max effort can produce less predictable location. It is a baseball pitcher thing but it applies to throwing a pass too. It isn’t that you can’t make an accurate throw with full effort it is just not as reliably accurate to the same degree. Someone said something about his pro day and that is where I saw it too. He took a little extra step on the deep throws. Some call it a hitch but I don’t see it that way because I don’t see it on shorter throws. He does it trying to get distance. I saw that and just wanted no part of it at 1.1 . That is not tne characteristic of a 1.1 passer. He should have been at best, late first I had him second day. Of course I am no one and certainly not a pro evaluator, it is just that he was so easy to suss out. It is kind of in your face obvious. They must have thought they could fix him. Changing a lifelong throwing motion with the footwork tied into it is not fuging easy. Anyone that had decent success with ‘their’ way and tried to change it to get more, can tell you that.

It might be his biggest problem. The offense’s biggest problem is the limitations on tne playbook. You can’t open it up. But am sure I will be quickly put in my place by someone who is really smart.

Yeah I do. Somewhat. He didn’t decide to do it on his own he reacted to someone telling him to do it. In a nanosecond. I mean I am happy we got the ball back. But I do t have a hard on to run him off over it. We know he isn’t exactly a genius I would want to run him off if he did it again.

Okay. I finally found it and put it up a couple pages back.

I agree that he plays scared and far too often. I go to game 3 2024 Andy vs LV. The exact play, I don’t remember but what I do clearly remember is Andy stood tall in the face of pressure and stepped into a throw knowing he was gonna get hit. Made the throw, took the hit, made the play - pretty sure it was downfield. When Bryce came back in in garbage time it wasn’t long before I saw him do that. And I knew he had seen Andy and understood that if he wanted it, that is how he was going to have to play. But it didn’t last. This season he was back to bailing out saw it in preseason and knew it was the old Bryce. Playing not to get hit. Sometimes you have to pay the price or you don’t make the play. I get him being skittish. Could I do it? I was pretty much his size in high school. I bet I would try but getting killed a couple of times would probably have me acting just like him. But if he doesn’t sack up, pay attention to his mechanics, and remain diligent about that, he won’t make it.

Meaning it wasn’t his idea.

Well Jon Snow says in another thread he has seen it. So I will apologize for calling you out. but at the same time you should know that the guys in these daily threads are not saying that stuff. Because we are not. There were long arguments about a 20 yard pass being a deep ball. but no one in those threads claimed he couldn’t throw it twenty yards. The distance stuff starts to come in at twice that distance. And Hail Marys and such.

Thank you for speaking up. I can’t see how anyone would take that to be serious. It is one of those exaggerations for effect I guess. I forget sometimes how people do when the are desperate to make a point. So you guys and your 5 yards and 25 yard claims, I apologize but also maybe you should consider the source on some of these things.

The indulgence he has been afforded causes me to wonder what the bar is for ‘shitting the bed’.