strato

No one will want to hear this but if you are going to be so insistent on making excuses for Young and that offense, and then removing them to put it on the QB if it doesn't look better. Maybe follow that model with Evero and remove his excuses too by giving him players. If he has the players and it still looks bad, there is your answer.

I agree about DC. I think he knew it would fail and that he would get a shot at bringing in a more suitable QB. But he had to play the game while it all played out and he had to convincingly remove the excuses that were being made.

My point is they were looking at the whole year with Bryce, and into the future. Legette is really a great guy to run down and compete for a ball with a DB. He (Bryce) couldn't complete poo down field (in 2023). The back was because he has the receiving skills. That is what set him apart (besides the ACL rehab). My view of it was he (Bryce) needed to be trending up and showing he could do something the second half of the season. I certainly didn't expect to win a lot under any circumstances, considering the multiple factors including a new offensive system, so competing early wasn't something I expected to do. If you look at it that way it might be more understandable than the view that places top priority on winning games out of the gate. This was always going to be a learning year. The complaining about that wasn't realistic to me. Inconsistent with reality. People put unreasonable expectations about winning, while predicting we'd maybe win 4 or 5 games. It was a little illogical. Bro, I have watched just like you have, the steady decline year by year, under Tepper's yoke. We weren't winning so take care of your business that gets you competitive and pointing up at year's end. Max expectations on my end. Honestly it was all about suffering through what we had to, and allowing Young to show what he was. I knew or thought I knew, but poo necessitated that other people be convinced.

I'd agree if you amended that to high draft pick. I think we need to start pouncing on someone with maybe points off here or there that drop them out of the top guys, perception wise. If a guy we like for investing a little time in is there, at the right price, go for it. There is no argument being made here, nor will there be, against fixing this defense.

It was very Bryce Young draft IMO. 1st two picks were about helping him. No one realistically expected, at the time, that he would be so uncoachable that it would be thrown out 2 games in. I am one of his biggest detractors and I didn't see it happening in April. I don't think anyone did. But anyway, things don't instantly take and here comes that process word but it is sort of appropriate. And really I am not sure their expertise is in the player evaluation as much as it might be for game situation and opponent analysis or analysis derived from specific things pertaining to the NFL. I'd have to find that interview to even start getting a handle on what exactly they do. It isn't my area really. I just remember thinking the guy was pretty sharp and well respected and that he was coming to work for the Panthers.

You guys know why Legette was chosen. We needed a guy that can compete with defensive for balls thrown by an inaccurate weak armed QB. 5 games. Hurt in camp and growth somewhat slowed, and then the Bryce factor was quicksand too.

To that part of your post, I think that exposes some of it. It is a collaborative process and they move the goalposts every year or every other year with GMs and coaches and coordinators and they go that way, and maybe these guys now don't fit for the new coaches and GMs. Rinse repeat. Also, yes you have to listen to the scouts. Two things: We hired the leading analytical guy. Who is really impressive I thought, there was a long interview with him around the time of the Super Bowl if anybody wants to see it it is probably pretty easy to find. So maybe that is in the evolving/transitioning stage right now. The other thing is something I have not heard put out there prior to Canales and Morgan talking about it and that is they had meetings with the scouts upon taking charge of things, that were aimed at setting evaluation standards, what specific skillset or attributes the players needed to have to fit what they want to build. Some of these things may have been addressed but we do not see the fruits immediately?

We knew about Luvu better than anyone. Can't make him do what you want him to do, if he isn't onboard with it. Should we have hired Quinn to keep him happy? Maybe so. But that wasn't happening. edit: I am removed from it now but wasn't a big thing with Jackson, that he wasn't reliable to be playing a full season? Horn had the same concerns and we were locked in there, did you want to double down? I think that was a legit question. But the bottom line is he went for another piece for Bryce. Theme of the last two years.

So where is your money on Tepper absolving Bryce and continuing to make it about making him the guy?

We all realized, or should have, how green he is. Asked to play call, to fix Bryce, and to learn how to be a HC. Anyhow, my pitchfork is pointed at Young, and Tepper for dictating that all resources be thrown at floating that boat. But the bottom line is I pledged patience for his first year. It is a horrible situation he came into, as well, with this QB clouding the picture. I like the way the offense looked once we could see it. It didn't look good against the first real strong D we faced, true. That is one of the moments I conceded to first year growing pains. Can't really lobby that it was good but can believe the evidence at season's end. When we have all of it. You evaluate him on how he transitions away from Young

I don't agree the offensive players were his choice, when his head coach has a total offensive background and given the situation. I view it like... FA, Morgan's job on Offensive guys was probably the nuts and bolts, the mechanics of making the trade or deal or signing happen. Seeing if we could swing it, having discussions about it with Canales, Tilis, and Tepper too no doubt. He would have done the wheeling and dealing and turning the cards in to make those things happen. But would you ask him or would you ask Canales who is building the offense, to choose offensive players? I mean, Canales all the way for me. Defensive players, Canales probably wouldn't overrule Morgan. Now, it was apparent that he was indulging Evero on some of those acquisitions. But isn't he sort of supposed to collaborate with the coaches in charge of that side of the ball? Wallace looked not too great yesterday but he was really thrown into a raging fire, so I am not out on him. But I was irritated and dismayed at his seeming lack of disappointment in the loss when I saw his postgame locker room minutes. I need to see things with Young out of the picture and not influencing every fuging decision.

You shouldn't judge him by a move that all of his bosses wanted to happen. It wasn't his call and all we know is what has been said publicly. He affirmed his bosses' choice. I really don't believe if Morgan had autonomy he would have come to that place on Young. The guy played in the league against legit QBs and probably took one look at Young and the opinions he was hearing and thought... "wow, really? This is what I am dealing with here?". Keep your gig or make a stand. My inability to do stuff like that, is why I never would have survived in the corporate suit world. But people do that all the time.

You can't realistically evaluate Morgan on much because he was given a mandate. Job one, two and three was Bryce support and evaluation. It distorted the vision of the way forward. I didn't believe it took that to see what Young has. But I understand the thinking because you have to get Tepper off of him and that apparently is what it would take - that level of help and the same results from the QB. Bottom line is you can't evaluate any of it until you remove Young from the equation and get back to NFL standards.

Well, he does have the athleticism to elude pursuit and the arm to make things happen. 2 things we don't have in our drafted S2 champ. He had a gift playing against our defense though.

Well the one thing he learned by watching that I saw, and it came in the first minutes of Dalton playing against the Raiders.... throw the fuging ball don't fool around. The best throw that I caught (I really don't want to see anything at that point), it was that off script 'scrambling' improv that may be the deepest throw of his, this year, that went to the right colored jersey. But if they are pressuring, pressing things and not very comfortably ahead in the game's last few minutes, something tells me it wouldn't have looked much different than he has looked all along. One thing- I think he would have thrown the ball decisively because he saw Dalton do it and it worked. Right or wrong, accurate or not, who knows but it would have come out more on time.

Dalton's first game we had the receiving corps intact like they were assembled with Diontae bumping everyone down. Theilen was a real important piece of it. So you take him away, the production goes down a little the next week even when facing a weaker defense. It actually went down the second half of the game he was hurt in, for that matter. Now you go against a very good defense, down Theilen but you have had a game and another week to adjust, but before you know it, Legette is off the field. You got everyone pushed up a level, again, mid game into a different role than they prepared for. They can double Diontae and what, you have Mingo? And if they had wrinkles designed for Legette, that poo went down the drain. It was a really bad situation. The defense, if you took any time to think about it you were probably just despondent at the prospects for the day. Knew that was likely to be pretty bad. They only hope really was that Williams help us out some. That is going to be the biggest issue for them, going forward, over the offense.

I haven't seen anything worse. Even expansion teams. I mean maybe the old Saints? The old old Saints with the bags. I don't there has been anything this bad for the Panthers not really close. I do think it will get marginally better, I mean they stuck Wallace out there and had him making the calls in his first start. A guy can't worry about his own play thinking that much. He probably would be thinking too much without have to make any calls in his first start. I have to say, I have been a supporter of him, but his locker room interview pissed me off. He wasn't mad, embarrassed, unhappy, that I could see. And that is what I needed to see.

Yeah I agree. I studied Journalism in school many years ago and back then they were the authority and above reproach. No longer close.

Man, you are .... well, this is what I wrote that YOU quoted! Where did I say that Bryce made us do anything? Besides making us suck when he is on the field. Learn to fuging read before you call me out.

Despite Canales iterating and reiterating that point, look at the articles, the fans, the locker room interviews with the players, it is all that bullshit.

He went too soft on Young. I lose sight of his analyst credibility in the fog of that stuff.

Person is on the same poo. I swear. The Athletic, it's behind a paywall.

I don't need to. I know. I've watched it all go down for years. You don't seem to notice that things are turning around on offense without him, despite the fits and starts that we are going through. I guess you are a big Bryce advocate?

You mean today? Because otherwise absolutely wrong. And big deal.

Personally, but him being here is a big factor. The sacrifices made in the name of Young were crippling.