strato

I thought that too but no. And that is what got me started looking more closely at it Give this a look, it is from Pro Football Reference.com. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/comebacks.htm ——— A Game-Winning Drive (GWD) must involve these: team must win game team must, at some point, have possession of the ball tied or down by one score (1-8 points) in 4th quarter or OT the offensive scoring drive must conclude in the 4th quarter or OT. It can begin in the 3rd quarter so long as scrimmage plays that are part of the drive are run in the 4th quarter. This means you can't kick a FG on 1st play of 4th quarter to take lead and have it count as GWD. the scoring play to put the winning points on the board must be the result of an offensive drive ——- That page also has 4th qtr comeback which is different I haven’t looked at that yet.

Like I was saying somewhere, it can be unfair to him as well. He did a legit GWD, that they tied it back up after. And then did the actual one, in OT. He could have a drive like that, and some other QB handed the ball off a couple of times, and gets the same stat. Whatever side you view it from, it is inequitable.

And has been since he followed his best performance in 2023 vs the Packers with being shut out twice to finish the year. That IS the hurdle that has yet to be cleared.

It’s a process yo.

Yeah. It would be a smaller category. My beef it that it is not exclusive enough and isn’t equitable within its own qualifiers. 4 minute offense. 2 minute. However you frame it, those sorts of circumstances are tougher and it is a more impressive accomplishment. And we should have a way to designate them as such. On the other end of the spectrum, I think technically a QB could come in after a turnover and the ball at say, the opponents 40 YL. 1:50 left in the THIRD qtr, run a couple of handoffs and you are in FG range. And the 3rd qtr clock expires, now you are in the 4th qtr. maybe you take a shot down the sideline, incomplete. Kicker comes on, makes the kick. The score holds up through the end of the game and you win. That gets you a GWD. I just find it worthless.

The topic of GWD started about Bryce but for me, when I realized what it really was, it isn’t about Bryce any more it is about a bad use of statistics. You can flip it and say okey we know that x y and z games he took the team down and got the score with time running out. Another QB handed it off, early in the 4th quarter and got the same little gold star as Bryce did for what he did Sunday. It doesn’t have to be about discrediting Bryce. It could be about accurately crediting a player for what he did. I don’t see that it is doing that.

100%. Stats are just trying to communicate stuff to you that happened, and if you had seen it you probably wouldn’t need the stats so much. They are cool for record keeping like we know that 448 was a team record. I said that in an earlier post, like if I watched Bryce play Sunday and the previous Sunday, I don’t need stats to tell me he was great in one game and horrible in the other.

That is my argument on this. It is so broadly defined that it doesn’t tell you who the dawgs are and who got a participation trophy for moving the ball 7 yards into FG range by handing it off to your RB. Okay the real dawgs get credit for that handing off too, so it is fair. Do I want to use that to measure the value of my QB”s play? To get there you have to dig deeper the stat as it is defined just isn’t a good tool IMO Like getting garbage time stats and they count the same as those 448 yards Bryce earned in a tightly contested game the other day. They shouldn’t. I don’t have anything worked out that would redefine and improve the usefulness of the GWD but maybe there should be a stat for the 2 minute drill stuff, the 4 minute drill, where the QB really was challenged and responded.

Yes they are. Everyone gets awarded the GWD based on the same standards. The qualifiers My beef is it just isn’t a good stat because the qualifiers are all over the place. You can get a GWD for essentially going three and out and the bringing on the kicker, at 11:58 in the 4th quarter. And it counts the same as you got the ball on your 25 with 2:18 left in the game and one timeout and orchestrated a perfect two minute drill ending in a TD or a kick as the clock ticked off the last seconds. Those are just not the same. They shouldn’t count the same. IMO. And the only way to know that a guy’s GWD was the classic 2 minute drill for a last second kick, or if he came in after a turnover and handed it off a couple of times and the kicker came on with 12 minutes to go, and made the final margin, is to look at the drive charts.

The GWD stat, as I see it, was being spun to pimp Bryce. He does have some ability in the clutch. But that is a poo stat. I don’t like stats much anyway. They can illustrate a point you try to make about a player or team or game, yes. I will put it this way though: do you need stats to tel you how Bryce played on Sunday? Or the Sunday before? In the words of the great Johnny Guitar Watson, I don’t think so.

It was my first Panthers MB experience. I don’t remember my user name. probably my email address I didn’t know much at all about the internet.

I wonder if they expanded the qualifiers at some point. Like in the participation trophy generation. Ir just wonder about the history of it. Because we had game winning drives before there was a GWD stat. I feel like it used to mean something different. Like a deep ball nowadays vs 30 years ago.

There was a Charlotte.com board where a lot of people that came here used to be on. They shut it down but I remember a couple of users here that were there first.

Not altogether wrong but that no way would have happened in 2003. Later after he got paid and was in decline due probably to the arm trouble. Jake came In like gangbusters. There was no okay he was great in college he has no help blah blah like we heard for nearly two years. you might walk that back a little.

Yes he does.

Yeah. Exactly. And I am not teyi g to use it against him because it is the same for everyone. I did get interested in it because of him and found that I not been thinking about it realistically. Bet I wasn’t alone It isn’t some exclusive stat for the real bad asses like I had always thought. We ask you know, who would you want with the ball in their hands and 2 minutes to go 90 yards? As a measure of greatness. That is what I thought it was. But it isn’t that. Yet it can be that. But a handoff or two counts just the same. Misleading. IMO.

I mean, the point is it is a flawed statistic that is just some catch all for whatever. It doesn’t differentiate between truly bad ass performance and you happened to be there and handed the ball off type of performance. It is the same for every player so fair in that sense, but without going into detail of how they qualified for the stat you are just looking at a very broad descriptor. I don’t know about you but until I looked up the the qualifiers and understood that, I had this picture in my head of the QB that leads his team down the field like a boss, against the clock, and passes the team to a last minute or two come from behind win. But is not always the case, not close. If say, your defense gets a turnover in enemy territory in the 4th quarter and you hand it off to the running back a couple of times, and your team kicks a FG for the deciding score, you get a GWD. Counting the same as the former scenario of the last minute against the clock do or die hurry up drill executed to perfection. Unless you go look at each individual drive chart that earned a GWD, you can’t tell which it was.

Okay I see what I missed. He has 12 wins not 10. Stats…. Garbage in, garbage out. There should be a way to measure the winning drives against the fail to win drives. But there isn’t. A way to identify the truly ‘heroic’ putting the team on your back (and your WR’s backs), and separate it from the ‘well he was on the field and took the snaps’ type stuff. But there isn’t. Technically a QB can handoff 5 times and get into FG range and the kicker wins it, but the QB has a GWD. And that counts the same as if he did the 2 minute drill with no timeouts left and threw the team 60 plus yards into the winning TD or FG. Bullshit stat.

Atlanta at home this year. Without looking, what else? And really, you get a GWD for a 30-0 game?

There is definitely something fishy about this. I mean his win total is 10 games in 3 seasons. If I counted correctly. The only ten games we won, he gets a GWD every time? And wait a mi Ute how could he have one vs the Jets when Dalton finished the game? When other guys have 30 wins in 3 years and don’t have that near that many? That is a bullshit stat in some way.

It was a great game for just about anybody and I don’t see him ever having a better one lol. If it is just the air part I would agree he deserves it. Allen had 6 TDs but 3 were running. And 2 picks.

Maybe DeAngelo and Stew when they went off but it would have been for ground.

Good for him.

Y’all don’t think that ankle swells up overnight and is a problem? Usually you can play on something like that for a while but once you sleep on it the next day is another story. Hopefully they!l go North Dallas 40 on that ankle and tape it up again. Be kind of crazy if limited mobility forces him to be a better pocket passer.

Two bad games in a row for Jaycee.