strato

I am not going to look for what I saw but it was specific to Dan and Dave, so maybe it was kind of real? It was mentioned, I think, that he had already decided to sign wherever the hell he signed and it wasn't an option. It was likely for a backup job anyway, I would guess. Considering the situation they inherited. Just a tidbit though I am surely not invested in the idea.

My view is that the time for speculating is long past. The evidence is clear. And chasing your losses trying to recoup is just bad policy.

I am thinking he wasn't a big influence in QB evaluation given his background. I wouldn't lean on him for that personally. Out of that list though, it isn't about who decided to draft them. It is about the track record after coming to the NFL and how they are viewed potential wise going forward. An under the radar guy that we could get without mortgaging too much fits our situation right now, probably. I read some Bucs stuff while looking for the Canales and Mayfield narrative and came across some reporting on Canales comments and also fan and media opinions that the competition in preseason/camp 2023 was very close between Trask and Mayfield. So it might be something to keep in mind. We're gonna need a backup maybe. Also I remember someone saying that when he came in here there was talk of them wanting to pursue Lock. Don't shoot the messenger I am just relaying what I read. I don't know poo about either player.

That's a totally logical and intuitive perception to me.

I am old and it was at the root of my disappointment in the way things have been run the last 7 years. I don't think I'll make it to the good times if they ever come back. I felt like it was being stolen from me. As far as Wilks, yeah his support staff was not impressive and that is a big factor no doubt when hiring. As far as the TB game, I can't or wouldn't try to obscure the results. And it is a results deal. But he was sort of in the same position as we are now on defense. We are hurting more front 7 but he had a lot of not good to work with in his secondary if I remember right. And the 'not a yes man' strikes me as a factor as well.

Yeah. Okay how do we expand on that to get that rolling? Something to ponder. Maybe the prize is you get your sign blown up on a billboard?

I don't disagree with that at all. I guess the crux is how much the person is susceptible to being influenced. I thought that had something to do with Wilks not being more seriously considered; Tepper wanted a yes man. Why Frank was probably gone. Maybe he has learned, because I don't think Canales went for that yes man stuff after a certain point.

You know how the media is nowadays. The most sensational, over the top click bait stuff gets their attention. Which maybe isn't that helpful? At the same time, one or more of those signs will end up being unique and fresh and stand out, so more minds at work is a good thing too. Maybe auditioning some potential sign messages would be helpful or at least entertaining.

That works if the owner isn't a fan too.

yeah that is how I would think it would be. Which informs my thinking that they really probably aren't the big issue with bad talent decisions. Like, replace them all.... what would that really do? You are gonna have under and over achievers just like any other group. Regarding the bad fits, bad evaluations, I would just assume or infer that that is as much a product of different standards or whatever, between different coaches. Systems. Philosophies. And changing these people out all the time leads to poo being out of synch.

Sure, but at the same time as an owner and paycheck signer, certain inside stuff would be something I'd want. I am going to hopefully hire a person I'd respect enough to allow them to do their job and shoot me straight about stuff if I had questions. I know I'd have curiosity about whatever was going on. The actual rigidity of a weekly meeting is probably not necessary for that to happen.

That's pretty much what I imagined. I don't have the feeling that they were behind Bryce Young for instance. I refer back to the comments about the coaching staff meeting with the scouts to set the traits they are looking for in what they plan to run, and get people on the same page. Which I don't remember hearing anyone articulate before. Not that it shouldn't be a normal part of the process, maybe no one bothered to point it out to the civillians.

I suppose. It wouldn't bother me. I think Canales has shown he can deal with it. But you don't have to think the same as me, let's leave it here.

No doubt. It would be best if there was a unified message. What could it be that wouldn't be viewed as mean spirited. I lol'd at myself thinking that the people pulled over with the signs in their trunk would be Bruyce's parents.

That works too. Need to get a statement made that he will hear. The stans will be out there destroying signs, they'll catch one with a trunk full. that'll be some entertainment.

That is a strong message. Valid. I'm thinking the message that we have had enough; Young is a serious deal breaker... needs to somehow be communicated. It's a tricky one.

He is also kind of benched or demoted until Thielen went down. If you don't agree that's fine, I wasn't trying to make him out to be all pro just saying that most of Mingo's time has been with the worst QB we have ever fielded. It has to make a difference.

And can I ask, again, if anyone is knowledgeable about what roles the scouts actually play in selecting players? As opposed to finding them for the higher ups to evaluate? I could be wrong as hell because I don't know, but I'd think they do the prospecting and culling to present the better options to the people who will be doing the real evaluating. Someone did something right on Coker fwiw. Anyone knows the inside scoop of what their responsibilities really are, spill.

That is the key to meeting with the coaches. Just get the progress report. Ask, if you want, what they think of how player x is doing? What plans are in store? What do we think of the team we are facing Sunday? That's all fine, or there is no harm in it. Don't cross the line and inject yourself into the decision making on the day to day. adding: it probably wouldn't kill anything if he asked why a certain decision was made, as long as he just gathers the info and doesn't start with the 'suggesting'.

A troll the fans article IOW. adding: I haven't paid much attention to Mike Kaye, was he a big advocate for Bryce? Excited that he was the pick? That type of thing?

Especially if starting Bryce Young again is true. What is the point of having him? Young can be incomplete or just not target Legette all day long, as he did in the last game he played. Same difference if the guy won't pull the trigger, can't see where he is throwing, etc.

Not disputing the differences in production of defending TMJ/Mingo, but this would ignore the QB situation they functioned inside of. And the other assets on O. If you put Mingo and TMJ with prime Cam, they would look better than they have with Bryce Young. We are really missing a stud TE, for example. Which those guys had with Olsen.

I don't think the meetings, or wanting them, is a problem in itself. It is more like him ignoring his limitations next to professionals, and using his power to feed his ego in those meetings that would wrench things up.

The truth is to be successful at HC you have to command respect. Couple of random grab from the air examples... I know they are old some people here won't even know Buddy Ryan or Mike Martz. Look at Mike Martz - offensive genius but not a leader of a football team. Buddy Ryan - defensive genius but not a leader of a football team. Sure there are great X/O guys that are successful head coaches but that is just part of it. You will not succeed without the other qualities. Which is unique to the HC position in football as that X/O is what gets you ahead as a coordinator where most HC hirees are pulled from. Every guy that rose in the NFL knows his X/Os at a pretty high level, that's a given. Not everyone has the strategic creativity, but that alone won't get it done. You just don't have be a great X/O guy to get that respect. It mostly comes from telling the truth, treating people fair, and displaying integrity and courage to do what is right when stuff gets tough. I have a hard time defining it but we know it when we are exposed to it with people. I know Wilks had it (he had only excelled as a DB coach, he had no great coordinator chops). I really think Canales may have enough to get the ball rolling before he flames out. I hope. Asserting himself and getting Bryce removed from affecting the outcome of games was major display of leadership. Really alpha. He kind of reminds me of Dick Vermeil a little. Just intense and driven.

He hasn't hired a Super Bowl winning coach. That will probably be the next plan, if this fails. I am not sure this will fail though if he will just stay away from dictating football stuff. Unless you believe they will really start Young for 7 games (which I don't and am sick of hearing about Bryce Young), the staff has asserted control and he so far is allowing it to be that way. If the staff really has autonomy, he has taken a big step towards being successful.