Gapanthersfan

One of the aspects of the deep ball that is missing from the conversation is… what does his deep throw look like. Does he need to release at a 40 degree trajectory to hit the mark when most other QBs can make it happen at 30 degrees with the same target yardage? I’m 100% sure Bryce can throw the ball 40 yards in the air, but is it the type of throw he can make when the receiver only has 2 steps on a speedy db. 

My hope is that his improved mechanics show up in the speed of his throws. It’s the threat of the deep ball, yes, but it’s really the threat of a good deep ball that matters. Do his throws draw double coverage past 30 yards or is the safety free to roam? 

He doesn’t have to have a cannon, but it has to show a lot better than last season. 

Hurney through draft and free agency put some DUDES on this team, and largely kept them here. Hardy going psycho may have cost us a Super Bowl. With him still on the team,  we don’t lose that game. He got us Norwell. Prohel Jake, Ginn, Olsen kalil, Kris, agent 58, kuechly, hardy, and probably many more that I can’t remember. Leaders. Winners. Guys who never quit. Fox. He kept many past their prime but we had an identity. 

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

George Seifert. 

I know he was the main influence, but Marty had to agree. I think George told him at his first practice to not f this up. 

1 hour ago, t96 said:

Aside from McCaffrey Hurney’s picks are the best…

Yup. All GMs miss, but Hurney was a pretty good one aside from contract mgt. never thought I’d say that. To me, SS89 in the third will forever be the most important pick in franchise history. The number of games won due directly to the influence of that 1 man will never be equaled by this team again. 

42 minutes ago, gakonline said:

I believe this is why they were not afraid to depart with Burns. Burns openly said he was afraid of getting hurt at times meaning he did not play 100%. Brown got paid because he did play 100% even when games were out of reach. 

It shows character. Who is a quitter. Who is out for the $$. Burns, in this, showed big time character issues. No thank you. 

A new GM and new head coach are not long for this league unless they come in guns blazing. I like the moves and it seems like things are progressing nicely, but everything is fluid and all regimes grow stale eventually. Injuries happen to fan/coach/GM/owner favorites and they they’re almost never 100% the same.

The vital blow is center, left guard or and/or QB. Without talent at all 3, the offense goes nowhere. Always. Find me an annual contender with suck at those 3 positions. Neglect those spots in the draft great peril. No team in this age wins games 17 to 10 on the regular. These spots have to have serious revaluation at every draft. There always has to be good next man up talent at those spots. 1st/2nd rounders from top 10 college programs.

Showing confidence in mediocre/bad talent in a ‘good lunchpail guy’ at these 3 spots…it’s a wrap. Hard breakup, especially with the ‘give him 1 more season’ mentality. That’s what creates ‘the answer is in the roster’ coach speak. Hand a big contract to a free agent coming off a big or frequent injury history as a desperation move at any of these 3 spots, and it almost NEVER works out. 

Depth issues at anywhere else, safety, lb, dt, rb, whatever…  normally team is pretty ok at least for then with good position coaches. Mediocre guards and RT… trouble, but typically a good offensive coordinator can scheme around that, it’s still probably a 7-10 win team with a stud center, lt, and qb. Teams that neglect or draft bad here don’t win on the regular. 

1 hour ago, Mage said:

Frankie Luvu is what we all thought Shaq Thompson was going to be.

This. And I don’t think Luvu has peaked.

I don’t know if it is because we overestimated Shaq’s high gear or if it was doomed by injury. Sadly, the only aspect lacking for him to become elite… was elite ability. He was a really good player. A starter. Not a JAG. Not a star player. Not an All pro. He is a JAG+ with elite leadership qualities. 

If we were to sign a free agent LB who had an identical resume and career stats for big money, this place would burn to the ground. 

Shaq’s biggest asset is locker room, not on the football field. Look, I love Shaq. This is not a knock.  I’m glad we’ve kept him, but a first rounder is supposed, one hopes, to be a game changer. Keeps coaches awake at night. Hard to scheme around. Puts a game away at a critical juncture. He never has been. I think it’s because we haven’t seen one in so long we’ve forgotten what that looks like. 

flame away  

I have immense respect for Shaq, especially for sticking through as one of the very few who stuck it out to fill the leadership void in the hostile takeover that was selling the team. His drive is unquestioned. His leadership is unquestioned. I think his injuries played a more substantial role than realized. Heck of man. Never complains or dogs on any of his teammates. 

TD is godlike. Folklore. Our enforcer. Pseudo goon. Agent 58. Tough act to follow. 

13 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Looking back, I don't think there are 64 players better than Shaq in that draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NFL_draft

Some made pro bowls like once but have been JAGs the rest of their careers and bounced around the league or are out of it now. I'd take Shaq over the likes of Vic Beasley, Laken Tomlinson, Jameis Winston or DJ Humphries - All pro bowlers at one point but not better than Shaq has been over the course of his career imo.

As would I. Beasley.  It’s hard for me to hate him, even though I (we all) should. he’s a good Adairsville man. He’s local to me. He killed our undefeated season and showed the Broncos the roadmap. Why can’t the panthers ever win in the ATL?

There is a long line of players overdrafted that I wouldn’t take for shaq either. I wouldn’t take Vic for him. My point is that he was overdrafted for where he was actually selected, judging by his year over year production. I have been longing to see out of Shaq the high gear that Luvu showed last season. Shaq balled out against the Cowboys one game that I will be eternally grateful for. He was an animal that game. 

My hope and expectation was to have Thomas Davis like production once he assumed the throne. IMHO, we never saw it. 
 

10 minutes ago, t96 said:

lol dude you are absolutely high if you believe this.

Hallucinations don’t normally start until later. Gotta get the mixture right as pool road players used to say. 

I don’t recall a game that we won because Shaq took a game over and wrecked shop. There may have been one, I’m sure there was, but I can’t recall. Was he ever an all pro? I honestly can’t recall. Did he have a run of first team probowl selections? 

He had heart. I love the dude and almost bought his jersey, but nobody had to game plan around Shaq. Leader, no question. This is why he’s not just a jag, he plays well, he makes plays, but he’s not a DUDE. A closer. Someone offensive coordinators stay awake thinking about.

Playmaker? Yes. Game changer? Unfortunately, I feel like he has always left us wanting to see more. He’s a JAG+. 

Just my $.02

JAG+ 

Will Witherspoon-ish with stronger leadership qualities. 

Likable guy, redraft would have been a late 3rd rounder, probably. 

I have been and will continue to be Bryce skeptical, but I’m also fair. 

Improvements  I saw:

1. Footwork and his patience in the pocket was tremendously improved. Even on scrambles, you saw him turn his hips and plant his feet. 

2. confidence: I’m sure everyone already knew what play was going to be called, but he looked better in this regard. 

3. did he looked a bit bulked up or was it just me?

4. accuracy

He has a long way to go and I’m still skeptical but that was a good look. It was watchable. 

TinFoil hat theory that I’ve stuck to ever since about game 4 last year. This is long. 

Frank’s body language and overall lack of enthusiasm at any point in his tenure here showed that Bryce was not his guy. He was probably another con job victim of T, but T had to have 1. Someone he could push around and 2. Someone with local ties to try to ease the PR and team morale disaster that was letting Wilks go the way that he did. Putting the band back together was the new narrative.

Frank thought he would get CJ. The team loaded up personnel to coach CJ. Then they pick Bryce. It didn’t take long before Frank went in to ‘I don’t need this ish mode.’ You could see it with the very first TC interviews. He’s on the sunset of his career, he has money, but T gave dude a lot of money.

Most contracts at least in my industry have verbiage to the effect of if you quit without material breach of contract by the employer, the prorated GROSS amount of the bonus paid up front will be owed back to the employer. No company is going to pay a large sum up front without strings attached. That’d be dumb. 

 So, the taxman taketh. Say you get a $10million. Make the math easy. Call it govt takes 40%. You get $6m, but if you quit without employer breech,  you cough up $4m of your own to cover the difference because you owe the gross back, not the net. They gave you 10, they want 10, you only got 6. Now, there may be a tax loophole that makes my point entirely moot, I  don’t think so, but I’m not an accountant. So that’s a hell to the naw ghost rider. You rarely see NFL coaches quit and I believe this is a factor.

Frank knew he had to get fired without breaching his side of the contract. Losing probably wouldn’t be enough. T is loaded, but all the same, it’s an embarrassing hit to his ego to Fire a coach that soon. Nope. 

Ickey got Frank fired. Game after game, he’s beat like a drum, but glaringly, he never really got help to beat the speed rush. Frank knew that they would never win a game this way, and that Bryce would eventually get murdered. He forced T’s hand. Fire me or I get the kid you traded the world for killed. It was a standoff between the 2 sides, but it was only a matter of time. T had to, it was only a matter of time. The other coaches that didn’t want Bryce needed their out as well. Speed rush on the left side was that out. If Smitty helped, Frank probably bought him another G Wagon out of gratitude. 

Is this complete speculation on my behalf that the internal voices helped me compile? Yes, but I’ve stuck to my meds this time around and I trust my man Russell. He’s always been one of the few that I can trust. 

Kris Jenkins was such a beast in 2003. He was a legit HOF talent. Very Aaron Donald like. 

There’s more than enough talent on this team to go at least .500 with a JAG+ QB. Bryce right now I’d put as a JAG-, but I’m really interested in seeing how things go this year.

There are dudes on this offense with big play ability. The talent around him at WR and RB ain’t bad. the defense seems like it could be formidable this year. Evero is about to show what good coaching and dawg attitude looks like and what it’s capable of. We do have some DUDES on that defense despite what people may say. The Browns picked in the top 5 for years and were still losers. 

 With Bryce, it’s going to be attitude. This meekness ish has to go. If he rushes for a first down, takes a nasty shot, springs up a la Smitty and spins the ball on the ground while staring daggers at homeboy, I will jump for joy. 

A team that waiting for a savior is like the low self esteem high school kid waiting for a decently looking girl to ask him to prom. 

Losing is NEVER ok. In racing terms, you run what you brung. That is not how a team builds a culture of winning and pride. 

If Canales pulls a John Fox and pulls Young at half… huddle would need to find an additional data center 

42 minutes ago, strato said:

Jake to Proehl. 

Greatest Panther season to me. Ahead of 2015. 2015 team may have been better but that year was just freaking great. 

To me it’s not even close. 2003. The whole season was something out of a movie

4 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Figuratively, anything could happen with this season. Might as well tune in, cheer for the team and enjoy hope for as long as we have it. 

That's football. 

And, yeah, sometimes hope only lasts until that first game, partway through the first quarter.

And then sometimes they send in some nobody back up QB who'd never got a shot before and he wins that game. And then he goes on to march the team to a Super Bowl.

I mean, lightning could strike twice.

 

That team broke the matrix. If Jake doesn’t come in at half, the season never happens. Big Kris blocking kicks. Double OT X clown. Ricky manning jr 3 picks in Philly, beating Manning in Indy, coming back in the SB and taking a lead against the GOAT in the 4th quarter. 2 HOF’ers, All pro Stephen Davis for peanuts. Some no name who played backup to Kurt Warner in NFL Europe? 

It’s one of the greatest NFL stories of all time. 

Reminds me of when I was 20 and tried my first, and last dip. 

But in the spirit of the thread, I’m really looking forward to seeing how the young talent on defense grows and develops. 

Impulse bought a beautiful, authentic, stitched 2003 throwback 89 jersey last year. I… I just don’t know, boys. 10 years ago, donning that piece of art would have brought a sense of pride. 

I’d argue he has more ceiling than any corner we have ever had short of the brief go with Gilmore. I really don’t think it’s close. I wouldn’t ever let him go before the start of the season. 

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

This implies that he wasn't really injured those other times which is just demonstrably false.

You can't "gut it out" on a major injury. It's not his call completely even if he wanted to.

He will very likely miss significant time with injury this season. It just is what it is.

Sorry, I admit I was vague with that. Fractures, kind of screwed on that one. Ankle/hammy or soft tissue variety…  A 4 week recovery may end up only taking 2. 

Put another way. Horn, you’ve got a xyz strain.  you have to sit at least a week and these usually take 3 to heal. If you can suit up after 1 week, we’ll pay you 4 million dollars. Does he risk more injury by playing on it, yes, but there’s a lot of money there.

Am I suggesting he’s been dogging it his time here, no. Bro gives it his all every play. Always has.

Horn is a legit stud who has yet to see his ceiling. I love the way he plays the game, but if a team offers up a trade for a baller who could be our starting center or LT for the next 8+ years, or a stud young DE? That’s a tough one to pass up. 

To me it all seems so eerily similar to Mccaffery. NFL pedigree. Top 5 talent. Neither Eddie nor Joe seemed stoked when their boys were picked to come here. Both dads know the business side of the NFL.

When Christian played, he played hard. Likewise, Horn. Say what you will about his injury issues, he plays hard…. When he plays. 

There are so many possible ways this could go, all having their risk:reward. The longer he plays, the higher chance of another significant injury. 

1. Trade soon: I could see a contender giving up a mid to high 1st rounder + a 4th because he can truly be that dude that puts a team over the hump. 

2. Trade after a few games in: If he balls out, defensive player of the week type of play… if a first and a second or first/second and a young blue chip lineman, or something of similar value comes up, you have to take that trade. When was the last time anyone could say Horn had a bad day? Exactly. He doesn’t. Every healthy game his value will rise. 

3. pick up his option: I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. I don’t like this. I see him as being a possible holdout. There is no love lost between Joe Horn and the Panthers. 

Many other possibilities still but those are the few that have come to mind. 

To me, the issue is value. Horn is a baller, but this team is still 2 years minimum from competing. Unless Young is completely reborn, we’re looking for a qb next season. Next season with a new QB… likely not a playoff team. By the time this team could theoretically compete, does anyone want a Horn that has 2 more years on the odometer and that we dished another stupid contract out to.  

This team needs QB, D line, O line and linebackers. Everything else is pretty straight, for now. We need core.  We need early pick linemen. 

I love Horn’s game and attitude. He’s not a complainer. You’ve got to get good value for him when you can. It’s just gauging when that point is. 

I guess I can see both sides. This is a contract year for arguably a top 5 corner in the league talent wise. He knows it is a contract year. He will find a way to play every game. Believe that.

 ‘Injury’ could end up costing him million$$$$ of missed money on his next contract. 4 games out this season could easily be a $10 million knock on his next deal, wherever it is. 

So: he is going to play every game. Believe that. He is very capable of having a 7+ pick season. He plays physical and isn’t afraid of stopping the run. 

The pump is primed to be another ‘what the hell do we do now’ type situation. This team CAN’T pay what he will command WHEN the situation unfolds this way.