Loyalty4Life

The question was regarding Bryce only play well when the game doesn't matter and us out of reach. Bryce did not have a great 4th quarter but he had a great 1st half. Started the game 4 of 5 for 45 yards and a passing TD. He made a lot of great plays in the drive where we scored our 2nd TD which was a short run by Chuba. He also had a great run to pick up a first when the pocket collapsed around him. Great pocket awareness and plenty fast and athletic enough. The point being he played very well at a time where the game was not out of reach or garbage time. That was my point and those games listed are the evidence that prove that point.

No, it's not acceptable and I've never argued it is. I've only ever argued to let this version of the Panthers room to see if Bryce or Canales or Morgan can build this thing. Last year we overcame a lot in many areas and improved. We have not shown that continued improvement or consistency so far this season in Bryce, Canales and in the defense although stopping the run was a huge step forward. I hope and think that we will.

I agree with most of this outside of Bryce just sucks and that he is not an NFL starter. He proved he can play and we can be very competitive and I still see too much potential to give up. If you'd had your way we would have not seen the huge improvements in his game last year. You were proven wrong then. Jury is still out on this year and his future. In fact if I was given the option to extend him, it not only a no, it's a hell now. Same answer to cutting or trading him. It's not just Bryce. It's the whole team and coaching staff. Keep Pounding.

The fundamental lie that is repeatedly ignored is that have a mathematical chance to make the playoffs is the only pressure an NFL QB feels. NFL is nothing but pressure. Every game. Every snap. You play to win. You play to keep your job. Now, the talking point is moving from he can't play at all to he only plays well when the pressure of the playoffs no longer exists. It's beyond dumb especially for a team that almost no one expects to be a playoff team given we are barely over a year into the Canales, Morgan, Bryce era. In fact, Id say the pressure on losing teams without much recent success and a lot of turnover in players and staff is is very high and gets worse with every loss.

Survey says that is a lie. Last year. Nawlins, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, Bucks, Cards, Falcons.

You take what the defense gives you. If the D is loading up not to get beat deep you throw underneath and the check downs because everything else is covered. The Prevent defense is named because it prevents deep passes. In this situation, it's what every team would have done.

I don't know what the right protection call is to stop those stunts or even if there is one. Are twists and stunt successful because a protection wasn't called correctly or because the oline and RB did not execute correctly. I know some teams leave those calls to the center. I don't know enough about that aspect of the game to define fault. If that is a problem Bryce has always had dating back to college it would seem an easy fix to take that off his plate.

Bryce has to be better protecting the ball. You have to hug the football like it's your only child when you feel the tackle coming. Defense is always going to pull on your arms our peanut punch the ball. Both hands on the ball. Still needs to speed up that mental clock when the first cycle of reads is not there and scramble half a second earlier. He and the play will be better off. Waiting for long routes or receivers to scramble while in the pocket leads to more problems. It should be read 1,2,3, scramble, run, not 1,2,3,2,1,1,1,sack or pass attempt where his arm gets hit. I don't know what the issue is with protection calls or even if that is an issue but you cannot have 5 rushers and 6 blockers and still have a free Blitzer right up the gut. Bryce, online, coaching? Has to be fixed. I agree, a lot of garbage yards in between the 20s as Cards were up big and played a lot of soft zone because of the remaining time and the score. Saying that, the red zone TDs were impressive and you can't play soft zones with your back against the end zone. Loved the fight and the leadership. Last year Bryce was fantastic under pressure. That was one of the things that helped his turnaround. I've seen it this year, TD pass to Renfrow, but I've also seen regression where he tries to bail out running right. That first sack, even with the free Blitzer he had Sanders on a drag. Last year he hit that. Every play has to have a hot read. These first 2 games are not the same as last years first 2. We will be better but this year a benching is not needed at all. Lastly, this narrative on Bryce can only play well when there is no pressure is crazy. NFL doesn't have that. There's just pressure, more pressure and in the playoffs pressure. He has overcome the pressure of his rookie season which included a poo ton of actual pressure because of a poo line. That kind of pressure ruins a lot of young QBs. He's overcome the pressure of a #1 pick. The pressure of getting benched. He has had five 4th quarter game winning drives. The pressure of becoming an NFL QB and leading an NFL locker room. You expect a lot more team mate backlash but Bryce has received nothing but praise from teammates and coaches. The pressure of a fan base that is sick of losing and can't distinguish reasons from excuses and are calling for him to be cut with every mistake, even the ones he is not responsible for. Dude could be a poster child for overcoming pressure. Long season. Still a lot of football to play and a lot of reasons for optimism. Keep Pounding.

What were Bryces stats last year after his benching for passes over 20 yards (which is what NFL considers deep)? What was the pressure rate on those plays? What was the catchable ball percentage? How often was a good pass dropped? Asking for a friend. XL has a ton to work on but I give WR 3 years because it's a hard transition to to NFL.

Keep pounding.

I literally used your own words and put in a 7th round QB who turned out to be great and a first overall pick who turned out to be a dud. It's to illustration my point that it really doesn't matter where you are drafted. I can lead you to the water but I can't make you drink. By your own logic Purdy should have never seen the field and been cut if draft position really matters as it relates to your play on the field.

Am I in a different thread? Can someone make a thread to discuss if we should should have picked CJ?

Draft position does matter though, if Brock Purdy was drafted in the 7th round he would have never seen the field and probably would have been cut by now. Its very different when you trade the farm for a #1 overall pick like Trey Lance.

Sure. Fine. What does that have to do with the path forward or the original question posed? I wasn't crazy about the trade up either but I understand it after all the strikeouts trying to find a good QB over the last 5-7 years.

Yes, Bryce could have throw it a tad shorter. Renfrow could have also not jumped or he could have throttled his route like Sanders did in the clip I shared. Who is this NFL QB you keep referring to? If that's his learned opinion he'll have the same opinion on a ton of Brady throws to Grok. If Brady hadn't thrown so many leading poo passes that got Grok lit up, maybe they'd have more championships.

I'm on record as saying Bryce has a looooonnnngg way to go to even be in Cam's shadow. Cam was a phenom. I'm not comparing Bryce to Cam or even holding him to an expectation of what a #1 overall pick should be. Doesn't matter where you're drafted. Could care less. Sometimes you get Cam with the first pick and sometimes you get Trey Lance. Tom Brady or Brock Purdy. All I care about is they are on the team now and part of the plan and the process. All I care about is if we end up with a good NFL QB who'll allow us to compete for chips. Bryce's journey isn't Cams. Very, very few are. If it makes you feel better, pretend we drafted Bryce in the 7th round.

The question was if you were Morgan what would you do with the team since Bryce is a bust. I don't agree at all he is and I certainly don't blame the fans for his play. Fans being short sighted and dumb is totally separate from the question posed and in no way did I say or indicate that my fault of any coaching or on field play is the fault of said fans. My answer is I would Keep Pounding and methodically building. If Bryce turns out to be a bust, then yes, horrible mistake. The trade capital makes it even worse. Just because we traded up for Bryce doesn't change anything now. We begged for a methodical build and now we are doing it. Right now. And all it took was one bad game after all the progress last year for you to fold. If the Jags game is just another dip in the Bryce/Canales stock on the way up then the plan is still working. Canales, Morgan and company are one year in. Building methodically. Improving overall. One bad game doesn't prove me right or you wrong. And Bryce's play, which was bad, in that game isn't the last straw saying, yep, now there's is zero chance. Let's cut him, maybe fire the coach, look for a new GM and start all over again.

That entire article you posted was about the route being very difficult to throw and receivers running the route should count on getting hit. Let's me put it another way. No matter how good the throw is there is a very good chance that player is taking a hit. QB knows it. Receiver knows it. Safety knows it. I guess it must also be Tom Brady's greatest flaw because those seam routes to Grok took a heavy toll getting Grok lit up often. I wish we had a Grok so Bryce could throw more of those seam hospital balls.

If I'm Dan Morgan I stick with the plan because one step back doesn't erase all the progress that Bryce made last season. That was a total team loss and Bryce shoulders most of the blame because he's the QB and people are emotional. The Huddle would blame a one legged man for losing a kicking contest. Fans don't want to build a team. They want one already built and winning from the jump. After the crime scene of Bryce's first year Tepper cleaned house and got his offensive coach who has a history of building QB's. Dave had the nuts to bench a #1 overall QB in order to help him. I agreed at the time that if the first 2 games of last year were what Bryce is, then drafting him will go down as the worst in NFL history. Everyone is doing exactly what they did last year when Bryce was benched. Freak out. Calls to cut him. Sky is falling. But when Bryce started playing better, and some games at a very high level, people started chopping up that plateful of crow. Then the whole team craps the bed in the first game of the year and all those same people double down. Dave and the coaching staff had a plan to reset him and bring him back. They did. He not only played better but played a lot better. I've always said that as long as Bryce is making progress and getting better, you don't pull the plug. Think of it like a stock. It's not going up in a straight line. Some of ya'll bring shame to our motto. Dan, Bryce and the rest of the team need to do what they've been doing all of last year. Building, getting better. If I was Dan, I'd keep pounding.

Why do you keep lying about this? You keep repeating this for some insane reason when it's so easy to prove it's not true. I listed games off the top of the head where he played well when you said this in another thread. Week 16 against the Cards 36-30 OT win. Threw 3 TD's Week 12 against KC 30-27 loss but Bryce went 24 of 35 for 263 yrds. It was Mahomes magic that got us. Week 10 against the Bucs 298 yards in a close game with a passing TD and a running TD. We even had those flashes of what he could be in 2023 against the Packers, the 95-yard game winning drive vs the Falcons, or how he outplayed CJ Shroud with the win over the Texans.

I read the entire article. Seam routes are great against a single high safety because they have to make a decision. They can be high risk, high reward play but they are a staple in nearly every NFL game. Just because they are tight windows doesn't make them hospital balls. The biggest takeaway from that whole article was this is football. You're going to get hit. You can get lit up on any play. QB tries the best he can to judge the distance but the structure of the play is going to get you hit and that safety can run down hill. Here is one to Sanders, from the same game, who slows down slightly and puts himself in a better position to make the catch without getting lit up. Hunter ran full tilt and jumped. No fear running that route which is what Grok recommends.

Narratives change real fast because of how fast information travels these days and the need to generate clicks. People said the Panthers were a great place for him to land but just because it was said doesn't make it true. Was that true? Did we have an All-star staff? Did we have a good front office? Did we surround him with talent? Could the defense carry the load? You have to squirt really hard to think it was just a bad rookie QB stinking it up all by his lonesome. Saying the worst football teams have bad QB's is just low handing fruit. It's the easiest thing to grab onto. It could also be teams that have a bad coaching staff or no talent to surrounding the QB or a horrible front office. It can also be a horrible QB. To this day I think that T-Law going to the Jags might have ruined his career because of Urban Meyer. I don't agree at all that Bryce's only good game of his entire career was against the Falcons. Week 16 against the Cards (which is one of those last 3 games we mentioned) 36-30 OT win. Threw 3 TD's Week 12 against KC 30-27 loss but Bryce went 24 of 35 for 263 yrds. It was Mahomes magic that got us. Week 10 against the Bucs 298 yards in a close game with a passing TD and a running TD. We even had those flashes of what he could be in 2023 against the Packers, the 95-yard game winning drive vs the Falcons, or how he outplayed CJ Shroud with the win over the Texans. Especially in this respect you're not being truthful.

What it feels like is a horrible source reality. What a person sees is a horrible source for reality. Stats can be easily misunderstood because because they are interpretive and contextual. Very large data sets with dozens more more connected variables are difficult to deal with and understand correctly. Throw in confirmation bias, abstraction, emotions and the way human brains are wired make it really easy to roll with eye tests and intuition. The negativity for Bryce was really high and most were ready to trade that asset for peanuts until the second half of last year when he began to play much, much better. Hope sprang eternal. The Saints game last year. Going toe to toe and almost beating the two teams who went to the Superbowl last year. Beating the Falcons when the Falcons had everything to play for. Haters started adjusting their tune. Fan and media starting saying it looks like Carolina has found their franchise QB. The real answer was and is, maybe. If he plays great on Sunday the anti-Bryce crowd will find other excuses or say it's only one game. If he plays horrible, it'll be more of the "I told you so. I knew it before he was drafted." (which is beyond stupid since there there is not an actual way to know if a player will be successful in the NFL or not.) I'll leave with a simple example. Of the initial list of incompletions due to WR error, Jarod Goff has 0. He was 31 for 39 at an almost 80% completion percentage. His WR's much has balled out. Except when you add the facts that only 11 of those passes were to WRs. 14 were to RB's and 6 to the TE. Gibbs has 10 of those receptions and he's elite so that explains why we shouldn't put much stock into this stat. But then we see that Gibbs also set an NFL record with the least number of yards (31) for any player with at least 10 receptions in a game. Fun stuff! Oh yeah. From week 1 how many people had Justin Fields and Daniel Jones playing at elite levels?

Using a stat saying 75% of his passes are at or behind the line of scrimmage. Last year from week 8 to 18, 15% of his passes were over 20 yards. That was 6th in the NFL. His completion rate was 54% on deep throws which was 2nd in the NFL. Help me make that make sense in regards to what you are saying? Fo real.

Agreed. Setting protections is one of the more difficult things for an NFL QB to learn but I did see a lot of improvement over the past year. It's still an issue but getting better. Reich hung him out to dry in that aspect and almost got him killed. Once Canales gave him a hot read or option for blitzes and pressure he did much better. The more experience he gets the better he'll get. That's also another good reason to keep a strong oline. Mitigates that a little bit.