Loyalty4Life

XL ran a 4.39. is that fast?

I was surprised we didn't go defense but taking the top WR in the draft doesn't hurt my feelings. Bryce needs weapons. Any player after Graham went from 6 to mid 20s is equally talented and would help us. The fact that Mr. Completely Wrong hates the pic makes me think Tet will end up a stud. Keeping driving that Bryce hate bandwagon.

All of the people who are now developing the talent just got here last year on offense and the defense has not had very much talent to develop. Matt Rhule and his staff sucked at developing talent. Frank Reich and his staff sucked at developing talent. The owner and the name of the team may remain but unless Tepper is out there running players through drills it's completely fictitious to say we currently suck at building talent. We don't know how good Canales and staff are at building talent but we know that is a focus of his because of what he's done with past QB's and Bryce as well as the type of players he's getting in FA.

Did I miss something? The people we have developing players now are not the ones we've had in the past so I don't know what the heck people are talking about when they say we are not good at developing players right now. We only have one year to go on. Canales likes young players or players who are on an upward trajectory, especially in FA this year. Past QB's and what he's done with Bryce are good examples. Tershawn Wharton - 26 Tre'von Moehrig - 25 Pat Jones II - 26 Bobby Brown III - 24 Michael Jackson - 28 Jaycee Horn - 25 Tommy Tremble - 24 We missed on Milton Williams but he's 26. Everyone else we picked up are on 1 year deals. The Panthers new front office and Canales absolutely scream developmental team. Pick 8 (stay) Tier 1 Elite - Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter and Mason Graham Tier 2 Elite - Jalon Walker, Mykel Williams, Will Johnson Trade down: There are quite a few really good players that fit us at Edge, DT, S and WR mid to late 1st and high 2nd. Some combos that would be possible that I really like. Imagine getting 2 of these guys by trading down. Stark, Pierce Jr, Golden, Scourton, Grant, Emmanwori, Ezeiruaku, Umanmielen, Deone Walker, Harmon and this is just off the top of my head.

Everyone has that problem. Everyone does all their homework but then you have to make a decision and the reality is that no one knows who can play in the NFL until you've played in the NFL. Film, stats, combine, watching players in person, interviews, talking to coaches. Every team does all of that. It's only in hindsight when a guy with average tape but a great RAS score, or vice versa, turns out to be elite that we say that team was able to see the whole picture and make the right decision. We, as fans, get a lot of the work done for us because of hype, media and everyone giving you a short list of who's the best at the start. If we didn't have media telling us who is good most of us would be drafting 4th rounders in the 1st and 1st rounders in the 3rd. There is this idea called "Signal to noise". The signal is the truth. The noise is everything else that really doesn't matter. The problem is when there the more noise (or variable) the more difficult it is to get a clear signal. The NFL draft and picking the right players is 60 to 80 percent noise. It's even worse because the signal you're really looking for isn't even really there. It's a projection.

Williams also would be great as a traditional 4-3 DE so after we win the Superbowl this year and Evero is stolen away we don't have to stay with his 3-4 defense.

If we knew what players are ready to start game 1 or are worthy of a top ten pick we would not be having this conversation. It's such as easy choice that teams spend millions of dollar to help make the decision and can still only do a little better than random chance. I don't think he's as much of a project as people think due to snap count and how Georgia rotates players.

Steve has trouble being reserved and hiding his faults. Doesn't excuse a single thing he's done regarding fighting team mates or cheating on his wife but it does make him human. He faced the consequences of those actions and there's a lot of room to argue he caught off lite in some instances. Doesn't make him the devil nor should he be considered a Saint. I don't know the dude but he's brought me a lot of happy times and good memories as a Panther fan. I wish all of the people I looked up to or admired didn't do things that are bad but as an adult I realize that isn't remotely realistic.

Why are people acting like there is a path to winning the draft? Is doesn't matter if you're drafting on measurables, college production or potential, especially in the top half of the first round. Teams with all the resources in the world hit on a top 10 picks roughly about 40% of the time. This doesn't mean teams can't get some advantage. Teams are slightly better than random chance at selecting the right player that will be average or better in the NFL. I really like Walker but I've put some time in researching Mykel Williams and there is a lot to like. Physical traits are off the chart. He's 20 and already very good. He has a low snap count because Georgia is deep so they rotate a lot of elite talent. This also bears out historically as many Georgia players have better NFL stats. He gets consistent pressure relative to his snap count. Really good against the run. Perfect fit for Evero and our defensive system. Canales and thus the Panthers are a developmental type coaching staff. Lines up every everywhere from 4i to edge. (4i is inside the tackles inside shoulder and shows big time hybrid DT skills, again is perfect for Evero) In the SEC title game against Texas he had 2 sacks and 5 qb pressure. I'd love him here as a Panther.

You're probably right but I like this story better. But I'll give him his due. He built a few good teams but we will never consistent. Could have been a lot better but it could have been a lot worse.

People need to get out of here with that Marty Hurney 1st round draft pick success crap. It was only by sheer and utter complete luck he didn't trade Cam Newton for Jimmy Clausen.

Smoke

Horn deal looking better and better. Brandt Tilis might be my new favorite Panther.

Not a top 10 QB? You can't see me face palming but I am. Here are some metrics. Low target rate. In fact, it's elite. QB's don't like to test him. Elite Passer rating when he is targeted. Elite completion % allowed. Elite in yards allowed after catch. Elite at forced incompletions. Great against the run. In 2022 he was #1 in more than a few of these areas and top 3 in a bunch more. He rated at the very tippy top as an athlete. 9.99 on the relative athletic score.

Let's really look at Horn. His contract is in the middle of guaranteed money for top corners. He's 24 so his prime years are ahead of him. 11-12% of the projected cap is reasonable for a top CB Like all market setting contracts fans clutch their pearls but the rate at which the salary cap goes up makes it much more palatable. His stats compared to guaranteed money isn't very good and could be seen as overpaid regarding that data point but these are his stats on a bad defense. Everyone knows CB stats are heavily related to pass rush so I'm not worried over this one. Injury history doesn't bother me too much as they were more fluke injuries and were not repeated injuries to the same body part or real indicators of future injuries. His contract is fair and par for the course in the NFL for top CB's. Any other team in our position would have done this same deal. You don't let elite talent walk out the door, especially considering the lack of options.

I hate when people compare player based on avg salary. There are so many other variables that make a difference. Length of contract Guaranteed money Guaranteed money as a % of the overall contract Salary cap Age Contract structure Contract timing Market value I'm also a big believer in market scarcity and supply and demand. Teams can't decide to get a elite player whenever they want because they not available very often.

Overthecap has all of them but Wharton's just came out.

For sure. I was more pointing out overall. Wharton has 30 mil gtd vs Miltons 51. Wharton 3 years vs Miltons 4. The dead money is you want to get out of the contract after 2 years. Milton's is well structured too with a crap ton of incentives. It's just much bigger than what we gave Wharton/Brown. I'm glad to see we have a ceiling, even players we really want.

They're back loaded because the salary cap goes up every year and the last crop of FA from 2-3 years ago are getting their money. It's a fluid situation.

Man, Brandt Tillis is already earning his paycheck. I love how he structures contracts in length and ability to get out if it turns out the player isn't worth it and we need to cut bait. Compare Wharton and Browns contracts together vs Milton Williams. I really wish we could see the breakdown of the what the Panthers offered him cause Milton made bank.

I don't think anyone would argue about the potential of XL, Coker and Sanders. We're in the bottom because we have very young weapons. The entire offense is a work in progress so I don't put very much stock in where our receiving core ranks. What I do care about is projecting going forward but that is much more subjective. I think Coker is going to be somewhere between Moose and Smitty. I still see a ton of upside with XL and the team is still trying to figure out how best to use him. Adam T. is just a smooth vet and we we definitely need that. It took a bit for Sanders to get going and when it looked like he was really showing out, he got injured. He's a guy who looks like he's really putting in the work but still too early to tell how big of a weapon he could be for Bryce but he's shown enough to be a starter. Do we need a #1 WR? Of course but I don't know that he isn't already on the team. I wouldn't be mad if we draft one in the first round because it's all about the best that's available and I mean that literally. What positions can we upgrade and what are we passing over if we do take a WR in the first. I feel comfortable with a number of options be it trading for a #1 WR, drafting one in the 1st round or rolling with what we have (with some added depth, a la Moore). Any of those options allow us to compete and progress towards becoming a winning organization year in and year out.

XL runs a 4.39 in the 40 yard dash.

Tackle machine. When Morgan said we wanted Dawgs he wasn't kidding. Most of these signings look like blue collar hard hitting smart football players.

Fantastic thread and thank you for breaking down the positions. I love when guys do that as when fans know what we require from our personal and what the SAM LB does in a 3-4 it gives one a much better idea of who fits. If the draft falls right and we get a DT in the 1st or 2nd round I think we'll cut Robinson. He's run stopping insurance and can play both DE and DT. Evero will have a ton of different looks and formations. I think we really want a strong rotation, a la the Eagles. Wharton/Brown = Milton Williams. The details of Wharton's deal have not been shown yet except that 30 mil is guaranteed so at worse it's a 2 year/30 mil deal but heavily incentive laden to make it to that 52 so the deal will end up much better than what it looks like at first glance. We obviously need a starting FS. Considering our safety needs, defensive scheme and that he played under Evero in Denver, I'm shocked we have not already signed Justin Simmons. He is getting up there in age but he'd be a great stopgap with tons of experience. While we do need a #1 WR I think there is a good chance XL or Coker can turn into that. If the BPA is Tet at 8 and we can't trade back or we trade back and a top WR like Egbuka in the mid 1st. Trade back is my 1st option because of the large number of edge talent in the 1st round. Carter, Mason and Hunter are the only guys that would make me not want to trade back. Jalon Walker is the guy I really want. I think his skill and intelligence are elite. He's a true hybrid which Evero would love. He can also be a defense defining type player. Stewart, Williams, Pearce, Green at edge would all be great additions. If somehow Kenneth Grant, Walter Nolan drop to the 2nd I would run to turn in my draft card but I would not be mad at Alfred Collins or Deone Walker for a true run stopping nose tackle. One of these guys could even fall to the 3rd round.