Loyalty4Life

Bryce overthrew that long pass to Chark because of the pressure in his face. He has not hit on those deep shots but he's only had 2 or 3 chances.

Can't wait to see how the Huddle explains this quarter. Goes against 90% of everything I've been reading for weeks.

I am not Tepper's wife but I do really like the guy. He wants to win. Badly. He's willing to spend his own money and a lot of it. Once there's a plan he allows his people to be very aggressive. Yes, he's very involved and has been the decision maker on many things. He's decided the structure of the team, who answers to whom, how decisions will be made. Like the original poster said, Tepper is a consensus type leader. He wants all the experts in the room to show their view because they are the experts and then whomever is making the decision has all the information and facts to make the best decision. Sometimes, yes, Tepper calls the shot. It's his team. He was pretty much the reason we got Rhule but while this turned out to be one of the worst decisions in Panthers history at the time it wasn't seen as some crazy thing. He actually had to overpay Rhule to keep him from going to the Giants. So, it wasn't like this was some hair brained outlandish decision make by an owner who wanted to be owner, coach and GM. He made the decision that the football people in New York were also going to make. But all that being said, it was a hoooooooooorrrible decision and is 100% on Tepper and only Tepper. All the QBs fails are on the coaches that picked them and Tepper, while probably giving his opinion, picked none of them, including Bryce Young. Tepper picked (kept) Hurney and Rivera. He picked Rhule. He picked Fitt. He picked Reich. He set the power structure. He opens his checkbook. Wide. All this other crap and blame are just fans looking for someone to blame.

All part of the plan. Agent 89 just got the Panthers Jerry Judy for a 7th round pick. Secret Agent 89.

Hey, everything I'm getting ready to say is just rumor and speculation because the team is losing but man, does it make for some great clickbait. I even heard, and I'm not saying this is 100% true....but it's out there. It seems like a lot of people are talking about the earth and just how flat it is. I mean, don't listen do me. Go outside and look for yourself. Seems pretty flat, doesn't it. Then you add in how flat the Panthers have been playing. The dots almost connect themselves.

Bryce, Adam, DJ, Sanders, Hurst, Zavala, the other guard. Those are the new players. That is 7 of 11 players on offense that are new. How exactly are we the same team when 70% of the offensive starter are new and the coaching staff is all new? I don't think you understand the words that are coming out of your mouth.

I said this in another thread. If I paid a king's ransom to assemble the NFL's coaching version of the Avengers and then proceeded to go 0-5, you're damn right we're going to be having some "not fun" conversations.

It's almost as if football is a team sport with vast overlap in every position having an effect on the whole. Weird.

That's why I keep coming back here. The in depth and nuanced football and Panthers discussions.

Fitts job is to be part of the team and get the players the team decides it needs for the plan to work. We tried the keep the vet coach thing in Rivera, we tried the college coach with complete control, now we're doing the whole team vote thing and we'll see how that turns out. He did exactly what Rhule wanted because Rhule had roster control and now is doing exactly what has been decided collectively by the braintrust of the 14 Pro Day Visit crew and he's done it well. If Tepper decides to let Fitt decide on the Coach and pick the players then we'll talk about if he's a horrible GM as this is what most, incorrectly, think all GMs do.

I like Tepper. I think he has 2 things he goes by. 1. You have to find your franchise QB. 2. He'll do everything he can to give the football people what they need or want and he's not afraid to put his money where his mouth is. All this Tepper made the pick, Tepper dictated this or that is just speculation. Joe Brady wanted Teddy Bridgewater and when the Bucs came sniffing around we overpaid to make sure the new wonderkid OC had the guy he wanted. Matt Rhule begs and pleaded for Sam Darnold. We got Sam Darnold. Matt Rhule wanted Baker. We got him Baker. McAdodo wanted Matt Corral. We traded up and got him Corral. Half of a superstar staff all got together and went to the top 4 QB's workouts and pro days and the football people decided that Bryce Young was the best player. There were zero people shocked when he went number one because outside of a week or so of rumors, overwhelmingly the vast majority of the football world agreed Bryce was the best prospect. I think Tepper loves the team and being an owner and is very involved in the discussion but actually does fully allow his football people to makes decisions. No matter what he does when it doesn't work, people look to place blame. The worst thing the guy may have done since he's been the owner is allowing too many "football" people run the show. To get Rhule he paid him like a top 10 coach with a 7 year deal and let him have roster control. Rhule would have been the Giants coach had Tepper not backed up the Money truck. Rapoport reported at the time it was down to Rhule or Josh McDaniels. Tepper did decide on Rhule and it was a horrible mistake but this wasn't like some crazy Raiders 1st round draft pick out of nowhere. After giving Rhule every chance to prove he could do something Tepper finally pulled the plug but during that time learned he needed a GM with experience and quality football people with NFL experience. We had already added Fitterer who had worked with the Seahawks for 20 years and who worked with Dan Morgan, who we also added as assistant GM. Then, we built a coaching staff with multiple SB appearances, wins and experience. The big reason that Reich ended up getting the job is his extensive ties with other coaches that allowed him to build this superstar staff. The one thing we have up to our eyeballs is NFL football people contributing and making football decisions. I fully concede that Tepper's big input was asking how are we going to get a franchise QB? I agree with him in that if you don't have a franchise QB, it's really hard to do anything else. Tepper sits down with all these football experts and asks what's the best path forward so we're a playoff team year in and year out. They put together a plan with all these NFL stud coaches who have tons of experience. They put together this plan. Now, Tepper is going to give this giant barrel full of NFL football people ever chance to prove they know what they are doing and to see this plan through. I like Tepper. I like his patience to see if a well researched and thought out plan will succeed. I like his money that he's not afraid to throw at resources to make this team better. I like that he hates to lose and damn right if the super coaching staff I'm paying a bijillian dollars too goes 0-5 to start the season there are going to be some very F'N uncomfortable meetings after a loss.

I was really impressed in his drive towards the end of the game. It was already over and I have no idea if he was reading things differently, if play calling was different or what but he had some much longer passes working down the field. I thought, where has this been. It was really nice and Bryce had great zip on the ball. The first thing I thought was I wonder if Frank allowed Brown to calls plays since the game was pretty much over. No way to really know but I loved those throws.

I am confused by your switching the points you're making from "types of routes matter" which has been agreed upon by everyone, including myself and your "speed is speed" comments. I think we've both said our piece as clearly as we can on a message board and are now veering into the who has the last word phase of the discussion.

If that were true then the list would be in order of 40 times and it's not so there must be other factors contributing to it. Otherwise, explain to me how Thielen is so far ahead of Chark?

No one knows if Bryce is a bust or not. He has just as much potential as he did before we drafted him. No player in the entire league could ever be judged fairly after 4 games. It takes 1-2 years at the very, very least. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. You may or may not turn out to be right in your opinion but there is literally no way to know this currently.

Yet, I would think that all of those things contribute to a WR being able to get up to his max speed on a given route. Short area quickness or how quickly a guy accelerate could also play key roles which is why I'd love to see the methodology in play.

We could be 2-3 with Andy Dalton and another year where we win 7-8 games and gotten a draft pick for next year in the 10 to 12 range. I'm glad we took our shot with Bryce and still see him as a possible franchise QB. Mostly because it's been 4 games and we just don't know yet. Anyone saying that they know or knew he's be a bust is just guessing. We are not losing out on Calab Williams or another top QB because if we'd staying the course with another average QB we would not be going through the growing pains now and thus would not have the top 1 or 2 picks if we do end up with a horrible record at the end of the season. We tried a dozen different ways to get a franchise QB and struck out on all of them. This time we are trying something different and that is trading up for a rookie QB with potential and building around him. I 100% agree with those decisions compared to the alternative that we've been doing for the last 5 years. If Calab was available this year the Bears would have not traded the pick or asked and probably gotten twice as much.

Because it's how fast you run the route, which probably includes getting off jams, cutting, changing directions, etc. Makes since why Thielen would be our fastest.

Maybe an over 40 only Panther fan channel? Although, when it comes to the NFL and your team I don't have any real evidence that older fans are any less toxic.

I think the type of routes run have a lot to do with it. Since we hardly ever go deep we don't have many routes that enable a WR to run full speed so it throws off the whole average. I'd like to see the details of that stat and how it's calculated. But it still can tell you that either the concepts, types of routes or playcalling are not allowing our WR to play as fast as possible or that on average we have too many receivers that are below average in speed.

Mr. Scot, Please message me. I tried to message you but apparently I'm not allowed. I'm an older guy as well who has long been sick and tired of online culture and the constant knee jerk reactions of many. I'll love to be able to still hear you opinions of the Panthers even if just through email or gameday chats. Despite my post count I've been here on the Huddle almost since it began. I first began reading about Panthers new when the Charlotte Observer had a place to post, then I think I branched out to here and this board rocks. I've been through a few accounts as I lose a password or go through long periods of not visiting. Your insight and posts on the Panthers have always been one that I really appreciate and enjoy reading and I'd love to stay in contact. If not, then I understand. Enjoy your retirement and good luck in you and your wife's health. Keep Pounding and go Panthers!

You can have the best processing super computer in the world but if you don't fill it with accurate data, it will not work. The way Bryce plays is mainly focused on prediction and anticipation of the what the defense is doing. This is true for any Qb that that throws to a spot, like Brady or Brees. Right now, a large part of the dataset in his head is being upgraded from college to the NFL and a lot of that data comes from playing in live games. It called experience. Both interceptions in the Atlanta game were from Jessie Bates cheating on his coverage. The safety was in a place where he was not supposed to be, twice. Bryce's brain went boom, boom, throw based on the play and coverage. He doesn't yet have the experience at the NFL level to see and predict how fast the defense can and will go rogue or the heightened ways an NFL defense can fool you. I think the biggest problem we are having is that Bryce can understand all the detailed nuance of complicated offenses and plays and he can process it extremely fast but doesn't yet have the experience to may it all work in real time on the field. By simplifying the offense they are going to ask him to make reads that he doesn't have to worry about getting fooled in higher level concepts. The mistake (in retrospect) the coaching staff made is by coaching and expecting Bryce to play like a 3rd or 4th year Drew Brees and not a Drew Brees in his rookie year.

I would understand that it's taking a step backwards so you can actually move forward. I would be greatly disappointed in a losing season but look at what that actually gives us, which would be a top 2nd round pick. Yes, other players we traded are looking good right now but we had them without a solid QB for 4 years and look how that turned out. I would realize that if we had stayed the course with Wilks / Dalton (or whatever FA JAG they found) we would not have gone 0-17 and had the chance to "miss out" on Caleb or Drake. It's only by a combination of numerous factors that happened because we traded up and changed everything from players to coaching to scheme that we find ourselves 0-4. We could have not traded up for Bryce and stayed at 9 and even kept CMC. Then we add, Levis or Carter and sign Andy Dalton. All that does it continue to live in the middle being an 8 or 9 win team with no real chance to get past that. Tepper has thought from the start and it's something I agree with that if you don't have a franchise QB, then nothing else matters. Ever thing he's done since he bought the team was to walk a line between finding a franchise QB and being patient enough to see if the latest plan produced that. We have the foundation to build towards something now and not put a band-aid on it every year. Now, we have a chance that in 2 years we can compete for a SB year in and year out. Bucs are not going deep in the playoffs with Baker, Saints are not going deep in the playoffs with Carr, Falcons are not going deep in the playoffs with Ridder. In 2 years all of those teams will be in the same position of still needing a franchise QB. They'll be good enough to win enough games to not be able to draft a legit top QB in the draft. Meanwhile, the Panthers will have added to a solid foundation with loads of potential in Bryce Young. Don't get me wrong. I hate we are losing but I'd rather be 0-4 with Bryce's potential as a franchise QB than 2-2 with Andy Dalton.

If he's not worth elite money, then why did the Rams offer so much to trade for him. The Panthers offered him very, very good money which would have put him around 5-6th highest Edge rusher contract if the rumors of them offering him a contract similar to Maxx Crosby. Also, that list is based off of mostly last year when he who shall not be named was coaching the team. I agree that Burns has not yet proven to be on the level of Bosa, Watt, Garrett but I think he is definitely in that 2nd tier.

I went back and watched all of Bryce's throws. It wasn't near as bad as I thought watching it live. He has a great ability to snap throw with accuracy at the drop of a dime. Many times he's going one way and just kind of snaps his hips back and he's in position to throw. Very, very much like a short stop in baseball. My biggest take away from rewatching the game was how all over the place everything seems. They are obviously trying to figure out what works, who works, etc. They seem like the sports team at the start of any classic sports movie. An island of misfits toys who learn to grow and succeed together when they learn to trust each other. And if you thought Micheal Jordan was bad, focus on Cade Mays. You'll start having flash backs. He was getting rag dolled and throw around every play. I think Bryce could block better. It was that bad. Zavala also had a rough game, most likely due to the Saints having a really good defense. I've noticed a few times as well Icky getting killed on speed rushes. I came away impressed with Bryce's ability to scramble and run when he commits to a decision. Many times and I noticed this in college, he holds onto the ball too long sometimes trying to make a play. That rollout pass to Chark was a thing of beauty. Even when it's not complete you can see the improve skills he has. The 2 point conversation being a prime example. When Mingo develops or when Bryce and his present or future weapons get more in sync I think you'll see some magical backyard football plays. I'm really think this lurch out of the gate is due to everything on the team from players to scheme to coaches being brand new.