WhoKnows

That is the worst draft class in our history and there’s no reason to even wait and see. It’s the worst, especially when you consider that to get that class we also traded away a 2023 2nd and 2023 4th for Young and DJ and pick #1 in 2024 as well as our soon to be very early 2nd in 2025. All those picks traded and it helped our 2023 class to still be straight and utter trash with not one guy who will ever be a quality starter or even an average starter.

Not as good as the 2nd we traded away for Young. At least that final thorn in our side will be done in the next draft.

True he has but you also said Mingo and TMJ and most of TMJ’s snaps were not Young. I just don’t think they would have made any real noise and TMJ being team-less already supports that. I don’t think Mingo will be far behind if we keep adding WRs.

I don’t agree. Mingo’s done nothing with Dalton. His top 5 yardage games have been with Young. He's starting and averaging 20 yards per game with Dalton. TMJ played with Mayfield and Darnold. Heck, he was on Jayden Daniel’s team and couldn’t even make the roster after getting a ton of snaps pre-Young.

Yep. It’s recency bias. Funchess and KB weren’t great picks but here’s what they did in 8 years with Carolina: 4657 yards and 39 TDs Mingo and TMJ in 5 years with Carolina: 888 yards and 1 TD Samuel, KB and Funchess weren’t our Steve Smith’s or even DJ Moore’s for us but they were actual NFL WRs not PS cast offs. Fitterer was straight trash. His best value pick was Mrs. Rhule’s pick.

I think we need to see his contract demand and interest now. It shouldn’t be hard to see if we’re close. We completely fuged up with Burns. We should have had him extended in 2022 and known exactly what he wanted and how far away we were before we turned down the Rams. We were stupid and didn’t manage it right and got caught in a we don’t want to pay Burns what he wants and now we have to trade him. We don’t have to be eager but let’s know the scenario well enough so we don’t turn down an ok trade while waiting for the moon and ending up with nothing.

I’m not optimistic. He’s going to want to get paid. I’m not sure we’ll match it and the allure of playing for a playoff team and getting some big recognition is not something we can offer.

First, he might want to sign here and second, why would he resign now instead of in FA when he can get offers from everyone. He’s done well enough already. Also, for someone who mentioned the franchise tag. It’s something like $30M from what I remember reading in a thread about this before. It’s high enough that he’d be happy to play for it and then be an UFA in 2025. We can’t pay him that much.

You are kidding me. Zavala and DJ Johnson are good? Rhule’s wife got us Hubbard and no other picks are even average players except for a guy picked 6th and 8th overall. Gettleman was always picking late first not top 10. His only top 10 pick was a draft where he got CMC, Moton, Samuel and Butker. That draft alone almost equals the list of guys you are lauding Fitterer for. DG also got Turner, Norwell and Williams on OL and Benjamin and Funchess, while not good picks, got us way more that Mingo and Marshall. Bradberry, Shaq, Short and Star are far better than the D we got with Fitterer. Even guys like Tre Boston were better than the trash Fitterer gave us and DG only had 5 drafts before Hurney 2.0. DG also never gave up the farm for the worst QB in the league to cripple us for years. Sorry, but DG and Hurney were gods at GM compared to Fitterer. Fitterer, IMHO was the worst GM ever. I can’t believe any Panthers fan would back him over a monkey throwing darts at Mel Kiper’s draft board.

I really don’t know why our scouting team is still together. Maybe they were completely ignored but I still wouldn’t take that chance. That’s why I’m still not in favor of Morgan over an experienced GM/assistant GM with new scouts. In that 2021 draft, we needed OL like crazy. The OL was so bad and we decided Elflein and Erving were the answer and all we needed rookie wise was BC and 2 ton Deonte Brown in the 6th. We passed over Humphrey, among others, for TMJ and passed over Tre Smith for Brown and also a long snapper that never made the roster. Both of those guys were mentioned a dozen times in the draft threads and they are both getting big time extensions from KC, who thank Fitterer for their 2 SBs while thinking he needed a 3rd WR, 2nd TE and a LS instead of fortifying a poo OL.

I still chuckle when some of us saw how bad he was separating and we still got told he’d breakout for 1000+. Doing well in camp against our D clearly doesn’t translate.

Yep. Think about what we gave up and got back. We weren’t a dynasty in 2019/2020 but then in 2021-2023 we gave up: CMC and DJ Moore, pick 9, pick 1 and probably pick 33/34 for Young and DJ Johnson Burns for a 2nd and a couple 5ths 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th and 6th for 3 QBs and a CB no longer on the team. Add in 3 drafts where you got Iky and Horn with pick 6 and 8 and pretty much nothing else. How does any team coming off back to back 5 win seasons survive an epic gutting like Fitterer did from 2021 to 2023? That’s how you go 3-20 this year and last year and are the worst team in the league.

No way. Not even close. Our record with DG and the players he drafted in his 5 years is so far beyond the scraps that Fitterer got us in 3 years. We still suck because of the trash moves Fitterer made. Gettleman and Hurney were bad compared to most GMs but they weren’t close to the decimation of the moves by Fitterer.

Unrealistic? Damn, take those rose colored glasses off. Wallace isn’t Luke but he’s played as well as TD, Beason and Morgan? Legette has been better than Mingo/TMJ thankfully but I don’t think he’s popped like a few of the top WRs have. He’s 10th in rookie receiving yards which isn’t bad but he’s not exceeding his draft slot. He’s also one of two rookies in the top 10 in yards that is already 23. The others are around 1.5 to 2+ years younger. I’m happy that Legette doesn’t look like our normal picks but you are being more unrealistic about where they are already.

There’s truth in that.

Dude is only 6 months younger than Burns. If he had something, we’d have already seen it. Kind of like BC, dude’s a solid backup but he’ll be 29 in his first year of his 2nd deal. Drafting older projects has never worked for us. Cam was 21 on draft day. So was DJ Moore. CMC was 20. Burns was 21. Brown and Moton were “old” at 22 although Brown just turned 22 on draft day. I hate when we try and turn a 24 year old into a player.

None of that looks really good to be honest. Horn’s given up too many TDs.

Yep. 2nd rounders for us, PS releases for 31 other teams. Imagine a worse GM than Fitterer. You can’t, can you.

Don’t think Cleveland would give us 2 firsts, but I’d do that in a heartbeat to tank hard in 2025. I’d even tell them to give us 2026/2027 1sts if they hesitate on 2025 since they are bad now. It would be good to not waste a year of a rookie for no reason. We need draft capital and a good drafting GM (not sure Morgan is good).

Agreed. Where’s all the don’t sign him to a second contract talk? Chubba has been great. He runs hard on a shitty team with a decent OL. You can find decent backup RBs on the cheap. KC pulled Hunt off the couch. If Brooks is our guy, we don’t need to pay Hubbard. Trade him to Dallas. They’d love to have him and they can pay him.

Starting does not mean much if it’s just an open spot on a bad team. 2 above average NFL starters is a good draft. Wallace isn’t Luke/TD. Sanders sure doesn’t look like Olsen. Leggette hasn’t popped like Nabers and who knows about Brooks. It’s not a good draft if they just start. It’s a good draft if a couple (or more, god willing) of them become starters who could start for half the NFL teams. We are just treading water in the bottom 10 of the league until we start adding more Browns, healthy Horns, etc. Ian Thomas has been a starter for years and wouldn’t step on the field elsewhere.

Don’t waste a pick on Dart, Nussmeier or Moss. None of them are likely to ever start. That’s where you get a future C (like Frazier/Humphrey/Ryan Kalil) and DT to sit next to Brown.

Man, I feel like the Raiders win gave us way too much hope. Dalton made some of his best career throws in a really nice stretch of a few scoring drives. We are 0-2 in our division and have lost 47-10 and 38-20 (at home). Our points differential is -100 and that’s with a 14 point win over LV. All 3 of our division mates are + in point differential. To put that point differential in perspective, no other team is worse than -65. We are 50%+ worse than the Jaguars and Patriots. We are double worse than Cleveland and Las Vegas.

Washington’s D isn’t a top unit but they are giving up almost 10 points less per game. That’s a gigantic difference. They have not been horrible like us.

If only we had the stockpile of top picks like the Bears and Texans had or existing talent like Washington. Bears fleeced us and the Texans got lots of picks for Watson and pick 3 a few years ago (SF took Lance). Washington reminds me of Winston Tampa moving up to Brady. They’ve been a 7 to 9 win team every year except 2 since 2015. Just like Tampa was before Brady, decent talent but poo for QB. I’d love to be starting with any of that but our only extra pick is a 5th and we are pretty devoid of future talent. I know we’ve discussed this in other recent threads but we are starting from almost scratch without extra tools. Gonna take a while unless we luck out on a QB.