WhoKnows

Man, I still don’t get the hate on DG. He made some bad picks but he had 5 drafts with Cam and he absolutely tried to help Cam. A healthy KB would have been a big difference but DG got the following OL: Oher, Norwell, Turner, Williams, Moton and yes, even tries with Kalil. He also drafted KB, Funchess, Samuel and CMC. That was in 5 drafts. Sure, not all the moves worked out but he at least got him a solid OL. From the end of 2014-2017, our OL was solid and ranked high. We just had an absurd amount of injuries in 2016 and then Hurney came in 2017 (post draft thankfully) and ignored OL again.

You really don’t get that we aren’t defending KB overall. You brought up the 2017 playoff game. A one shoulder Funchess was by far the best WR we had after KB was traded. KB wasn’t a super star but he makes the catch that Clay dropped. Clay still hasn’t caught a single TD in the NFL but that’s who Cam had to use and we lost the playoff game because of it. Simple as that. It is funny that you say he was on pace for 64 catches and not quite 1000 yards. Do you realize that would have been 2nd on the team in receptions behind CMC and 1st on the team in receiving yards?

SMH. Clay and Bersin have 1 receiving TD combined in their careers so yeah, I trust that KB would have caught that simple end zone route that he had done many times for us. Funchess led the team in receiving TDs in 2017. KB was tied with Byrd for 3rd with 2 TDs. CMC was 2nd. Byrd was on IR for the playoff game and also missed 7 games, and KB was traded in the middle of those 7 games. Even though KB was traded half way and also in the dog house, he still was 2nd among WRs/TEs with those measly 2 TDs. You can try all you want, but KB was a better red zone TD threat than every WR we had except Funchess, who was clearly hurt. Sorry Marty, you made a mistake when you traded KB in the middle of the season when the only serviceable WR we had healthy was Funchess. It showed in the playoff game when we depended on a WR with no career TDs and lost the game because of his dropped easy TD. Just to be clear, I’m not and never was talking about Funchess’ drop. I’m talking about Clay’s drop earlier where we got 0 points due to missing the short FG after the easy TD drop. KB wasn’t replacing Funchess, he would have been the other starter over Clay, Bersin and whatever other trash we had.

I remember when we weren’t the worst team in football and had seasons where it didn’t feel like we had no chance as soon as the other team scored 10. Brown had way more flashes his rookie year. It was his sophomore season when people questioned him because he regressed. Might want to compare apples to apples. If Young regresses in year 2, then you can compare him to Brown.

I agree. I also think his lack of arm strength caused some sacks because he was taking less chances. I can’t recall which of the early games it was, might have been a couple, but I feel like I remember an interception or two where he didn’t have enough oomph to get the ball past the CB. Heck might have been a pick six, but anyway, Young doesn’t have that flick to throw the ball 25/30 yards off balance with just his arm so avoiding grounding or an interception wasn’t as easy for him. Also, how many times did he fumble early trying to get out of the pocket. He’s not super fast so I think he ate it more often than a strong armed/fast QB would.

Too bad he never made the jump past his first couple years, but he was really cool when he met my youngest at a charity event. Pretty sure he was the only signature my middle son got at fan fest, both years ago. Funny story about Gaulden since he was taken with the pick we got for KB. Either Funchess misremembered or they had a joint practice with Buffalo. Gaulden and KB were never on the same Panther team. Horrible pick. I remember the anger in here when we picked Donte one pick after Jessie Bates (and before Justin Reid, Fred Warner and others). We needed a safety and of course taking Gaulden one pick before Mark Andrews when Olsen had just missed most of 2017 with his foot injury so TE was a big need as well. We all hated that pick as Gaulden was literally the least athletic DB at the combine and he lasted under 2 years with us. Damn, Marty really was bad after the first round.

Belichick doesn't worry me as much as Atlanta actually drafting a good QB. That’s the real worry we should have. They have weapons and a decent D and if they upgrade the QB spot, they would be a favorite for the division. TB actually has the most cap space but Atlanta is in good shape (just a bit more than us). NO is the only team that has a crazy amount of cap work to do.

It’s funny how jaded some people get about players that they can’t do a little deeper analysis. Gettleman, KB, Rhule and now Tepper are such triggers that if you say man, I wish KB was healthy in the SB or the NO playoff game people think you are choosing KB over Cam. I’m not saying I love Rhule or Hurney if I honestly say that I miss both of them over the crap fest that Fitterer and Reich gave us this year. I hated signing Teddy but at least we hung with two 1 seeds that year and heck we actually thought about playoffs in the first quarter of 2021. There’s a lot of gray area and degrees of gray in this world. Some people only see black and white.

C’mon, dude had 18TDs in 2.5 years with us even with the ACL tear and recovery issues. He makes that catch that Clay dropped. I don’t care how much people despise him, he was our best WR between Smith leaving and DJ. A healthy KB from 2014-2017 would be the best WR on the current team. I’m not saying his mental state couldn’t handle the ACL tear and his mom, but let’s not act like he was garbage when he was healthy. Bersin and Clay weren’t better. Doesn’t mean I want him back or that he was great, just that trading him at that point was a bad move. We got nothing for him and our WRs completely blew that game so trading KB in season was a mistake.

Don’t forget that Marty was the GM and traded away KB. I know, I know, but reducing the WR depth was a bad move and KB would have at least caught the Clay TD drop. Funchess was hurt but Marty should never have traded our top WR when we had no depth, especially when he picked Rashaun Golden with KB’s pick. Don’t forget that DG also got CMC who had over 100 yards (as did Olsen). If we keep KB, we likely win that game just on the Clay end zone drop (followed by a short FG miss).

In which case we of course politely decline and then decide we’d rather have a 3rd round comp pick.

This was why Marty 2.0 and Fitterer were so disappointing. I know DG was bad at many things but at least we were only complaining about LT and speed bump. After DG left, we lost Turner, Norwell, Ryan and Williams and we did almost nothing other than mediocre FAs until the OL was so bad in 2020/2021 that we were forced to draft a LT at 6th overall. It’s 2023 and our best OL is still a guy DG drafted in 2017. I was very disappointed that Hurney didn’t go IOL in 2019/2020 when that was incredibly deep and then again when Fitterer basically ignored OL in 2021 when it was as big a need as QB. OL often have hits on day 3 of the draft. TBH, it feels like a couple OL every draft in day 3 is a great strategy. Maybe even OL/DL only in day 3. You can never have enough depth and lucky hits there. Only exceptions are if there are extreme BPA drops.

Disagree on trading down. 33rd should be a great BPA pick. Someone (probably a few) 1st rounders will slip out of the first due to a few reaches and just fit with drafting team. We have the perfect opportunity to go BPA at every pick. Only way I’d trade down is if we got a later second plus a 2025 2nd. We won’t be good next year so great 2025 picks are great value to us. We don’t need more picks, we need picks to turn into impact players because we have Brown in 2024 and that’s it. Luvu and Brown aren’t even under contract yet. The entire rest of our team is replaceable. The top teams have more pro bowlers than we have non-JAGs. I’d think about adding Horn but he’d have to play a full year first.

Burns by himself will likely be better than all of 2023. Agree on 2021. I remember pre-draft that I, and others, were screaming to basically go almost 100% OL because Marty had ignored OL drafting from 2018-2020 except Little, who none of us wanted, and Daley. We passed on Slater, Humphrey and Tre Smith for Horn, TMJ and a long snapper and our current OL and OL depth suffered because we didn’t address at all our 1b priority (1a being QB).

I’d be interested to know if any GM has made as many trade aways of picks as Fitterer did, in only 3 years no less. Note that I included the full cost to get that player (pick used as well). Darnold - 2, 4, 6 Young - 1, 1, 2, 2, DJ (GB offered a 1st) CJ - 3 Baker - 5 Corral - 3, 4 DJ Johnson - 3, 4 Truly amazing for the poo we actually got/drafted. 2 1sts (3 with Moore), 3 2nds, 3 3rds, 3 4ths, a 5th and a 6th. Oh the humanity, we basically gave 3 drafts worth of 1st to 4th round picks in 3 years of a GM. I mean, I have to give Fitterer credit for just how much he dismantled this team and set back its future.

Or he learned one thing from Hurney, how to survive the axe.

I have zero clue, just that again when measuring Fitterer against completely awful GMs, Fitterer still seems worse.

Still better. He drafted Calvin Johnson and several multi-year starters. The other thing is that he left the Lions with the parting gift of a #1 overall pick when he got fired which turned into Stafford. He did not trade away that pick. Terrible drafter yet still overall, his reign of terror was not as bad as Fitterer.

Mayock was terrible but he didn’t spend years under a good GM (learned nothing) and he drafted Maxx Crosby, Josh Jacobs, Moreau and Renfroe in 2019 even with a shitty first rounder. That’s better than Fitterer’s picks. Also, more importantly Mayock did not handicap the Raiders upon exit by trading the next draft’s #1 overall pick and the following drafts 2nd rounder. Mayock also didn’t refuse a game changing trade for Burns while also never extending him a year and a half later. It’s funny because Mayock was a failed experiment and still he was not as bad as Fitterer.

Funny thing is I got it for something else my boys wanted to watch a couple weeks ago so the timing worked out. I haven’t seen Oppenheimer either and my youngest wants to watch it with me when it comes out in a month. I’ll likely dump it after that.

No kidding. I know it’s been gone over and over but when Hubbard is our best value pick in 3 drafts and he is a replaceable RB, that tells you how bad our 1st round picks have been for picking 1, 6, 8 and 9 before trades. If you draft well, that should be 4 pro bowl level players not the best pick being a guy who’s good when he plays one out of every 3 games.

Honestly, our best future is that Young is given a year by the new staff and leads us to a top pick in 2025. If anyone watched the Miami game, it felt like we were watching Young’s absolute ceiling with solid weapons. It was painful watching Waddle get crushed and almost crushed by two sidelines passes that took forever and a day to get to him. KC’s and Houston’s WRs/TEs got open and Mahomes and Stroud hit them while they were still open. Tua’s balls let the defenders get all the way to the WRs. Young has basically the same arm. If I’m Miami, I’m having serious discussions because I’m not sure Tua can get us to the SB and Tua is far more seasoned and better right now than Young. The only way we get out of this mess is if we get the right coaches/GM and they realize this is not a 1-2 year fix and they slow roll our build. Get the beat talent/high ceiling guys in 2024’s draft, trade anything that moves that isn’t a cheap building block for the future. Get as good a draft slot for 2025 as you can with Young leading the tank and get our QB in 2025/2026 as I don’t have a clue who is coming out in 2025. If the QB isn’t there keep adding the BPAs to the roster and roll over cap space. Basically the same damn plan as we should have done in 2020 and 2022 that our idiots didn’t get and drafted and traded so poorly it’s almost comical.

I was very impressed by Slowik. Yes, Stroud played well but his guys were consistently open and most times wide open. Collins has developed but he, Schultz, Jordan and others aren’t Justin Jefferson level. The Texans scheme looks good. Guys like Singletary, Brown, Collins, Dell as a rookie, Jordan and Schultz all took a nice step forward. Stroud had an impact but again it was impressive that guys were so open.

It’s really not hard to watch the game and also make some comparisons. Sure, their situations aren’t the same, but let’s be honest, the QB play/talent is also not even close to the same. It’s just being honest to say that our organization made a huge freaking mistake.

Gotta give the Texans credit but damn, I didn’t realize how bad the Browns D was on the road. They are letting WRs/TEs just run downfield and get 5-10 yards wide open all the time. It’s bizarre because I thought they were so good and even on run plays they are missing tackles and just feel like they are always chasing.