WhoKnows

Agree. Young is absolutely the key. We aren’t talented enough yet IMHO that we can overcome mediocre QB play. Our division is bad enough that a couple surprise division wins could get us in the playoffs. I think all teams in the division can beat each other with a couple big plays (see big Tampa loss last year), so pulling out a couple close division games could separate us. The only threat is if somehow Carr plays lights out in NO. They’ve lost a lot of talent on D so who knows.

It’s amazing how the 2015 OL gets discredited. When BC, Bozeman and Corbett start racking up pro bowls and all pros, then this OL is much better. The current OL is better at tackles but that OL was better G to G. When all 3 of your IOL were all pro and/or pro bowl caliber, it’s a good OL. We were ranked top 5 and in some cases only behind Dallas in OL. Also, we absolutely will have a chance to win the division. All we have to get to is above .500 and Id bet we’d be leading the division or at most 1 game out.

Not worth arguing. He’s trying to say he hasn’t been a bust (relative to draft position) because he’s never been more than the #3 target on his 3 teams in 5 years. That’s literally proving you and @LinvilleGorge’s points. Same with well he was behind Mark Andrews. Welp, if you are drafted in the 1st, you are expected to beat out a 3rd rounder and expected to be a top target, especially because TEs only get drafted in the 1st if they are top, top prospects. We think he can contribute so we signed him but the folks thinking Olsen are very likely going to be disappointed. Olsen was better with the Bears even though they didn’t use him a lot and traded him away and the rest is history but he didn’t get beat out by lesser players, ever. He was just in an offense that wasn’t TE friendly. Hurst was not in the same situation. Again, he should be useful to us because we don’t have a front line TE. Hurst should be the starter day 1 and the entire year, but he’s been a disappointment so far for a 1st rounder who turns 30 in training camp.

He was a 6th round pick, not a 1st so seeing the field in year 1 and looking like the starter in year 2 is exceeding expectations. Apples and oranges.

If after 5 years the stat being quoted about a first round pick is that he’s got a good catch percentage, the player has not lived up to being a first round pick. It’s really that simple. It is funny to see people get so upset about preseason rankings and realistic talk about players who haven’t even played a game for us yet. We certainly wouldn’t be scared of Tampa or Atlanta if Baker and Ridder were throwing to Thielen, Chark, TMJ and Hurst. As that one article said, most obsessive fans. I’m all in on Young and I hope he makes this crew look better than they are. We do need skilled position upgrades if we want to do more than compete in a bad division.

Exactly, I say that every time. Rankings are almost always based on prior results. Realistic fans know we haven’t had more than 7 wins in 5 years and that we blew our chance to sneak into the playoffs last year. Our leading WR/TE had 700 yards and he had his worst year in many years. It shouldn’t be a surprise that we would rank low and it doesn’t matter if we think things will be better. We also need to be realistic that we do in fact need improvements in our skilled positions outside of RB. Young is not Cam running wise so he does need some real help and it would be criminal if we think what we have is sufficient. Mingo surprising would be a great first step.

SMH. How else do you rank players? Actual stats or fan perception and small sample size extrapolations. Football is a team sport yet you guys are crying disrespect again because we are at the bottom looking at actual results of our receivers. Funny how now I’m doubting we can win a shitty division because I’m realistic and not ranking WRs/TEs on hope. The Saints were a FG away from the SB in 2018. Atlanta was in the SB in 2016 and we went in 2015. Division was stronger back then. No one in our division is a SB contender. We are going to need better weapons for Young in order to reach Cam’s 2015. Even just Olsen or Cam rushing was a better weapon than any of our WRs/TEs now. We need more to get past just winning the division. We have bright spots and I’ve been asking for a top rookie QB since 2020 offseason but our WRs and TEs aren’t close to the elite guys.

This. We overrate our players. To the outside world, Thielen is an older guy who last had a great year in 2018 and Minnesota didn’t want him anymore. Chark is an often injured WR who Jax didn’t want and whose last great year was 2019. TMJ had 2 more yards than Shaheed in NO and Shaheed started 6 games. Our top 3 WRs and top TE combined for 2100 yards. Jefferson had 300 yards less than our 4 guys. That’s dismal production and it makes sense we’re ranked so low on a WR/TE/RB ranking even with Sanders. I hope Young makes them look better than they are and Mingo really flashes but that ranking is based on actual results. Proven vets getting 400, 500 and 700 yards in a 17 game season aren’t average, they are well below that. I will add that I’m glad we added Hurst, Thielen and Chark for very little money because if we went with last year’s squad minus DJ, ooh wee mayne, we’d have done Young wrong.

Be careful. I got my entire old account banned and posts deleted for saying how bad the ads were before. Don’t care about ads, just the ones that make the site hard to use.

It won’t change my mind but Britt was the only D player who played the entire game. It was still 42-7, middle of the 4th quarter when TMJ scored in garbage time and the Bengals were just going through the motions. Maybe you think Baker’s 14-20 155 yards and 2 TDs (3 TD drives) in the 2nd half (we were down 35-0) where indicative of how hood Baker was. I mean if Baker played the whole game we probably were going to OT 42-42, right? Sorry guys, feel free to pick apart my Elijah Moore knowledge but I don’t think TMJ is an answer for us because of 10 or 11 routes. He had a few game stretch where he played decent and that’s it and one game was garbage time and one game was a shootout with a terrible team. When we made the playoff push, he barely registered the last 6 weeks and he was our starting WR2. I’m still very much hoping Mingo shines because I think he’s got a higher ceiling. If TMJ gets a 1000 yards like you guys seem to think he will with how defensive you get, I’ll be happy to say I was completely wrong.

SMH, you called me buddy first. I mean, OK buddy, seems like something that shouldn’t make you mad. Personally, don’t really care about Moore. Jets moved on and have their 5 WRs since they also added Cobb as well for Rodgers. Moore requested a trade last year so he wasn’t exactly a key guy for them like DJ was for us. Browns can see if they can get more out of Moore. I can still say it’s silly that Moore can be labeled best in the NFL at a route he ran 4 times the entire season, especially when the same source (PFF) had a very poor grade on him for the season. Oh well, have a great day bud!

Lol, maybe so, but a guy who was going to be the 6th WR on a team is not someone who’s a given to make a roster. Just because the Browns were willing to take a chance trading down doesn’t mean the Jets had any plans for him. I mean the Browns personnel decisions are golden, have been for years.

We always overvalue our players in here. I was poo poo’d last year saying we had a bottom tier WR corps, dropping off hugely after DJ who also isn’t in the top tier elite guys. We lost DJ and now we have a stud WR group? I really hope Mingo is stud in waiting. The 2015 season is a great example of Cam spreading it around, but we lost in part when Cotchery couldn’t just make the catch without needing replay and when Ginn tipped a ball for an interception. We lost the 2017 playoff game because we had no WRs and haven’t been back since. I don’t know why we have this thing for not wanting stud WRs because of 2015 when Smith is such a beloved ex-player and our WR weaknesses have showed up to help end our last two playoff games.

I just looked up the trade and let’s clarify a bit. The Jets didn’t really get a 2nd for Moore. They turned their 3rd into a 2nd for Moore. Also, that 2nd was one part of a package for Rodgers including a likely 2024 1st rounder and moving up a couple picks in the 1st. Again, Moore was low man on the totem pole for the Jets. They added Lazard, Hardman and Cobb to Wilson and Davis. That’s 5 WRs ahead of him. Moore was disposable and they did a good job getting value for him. I think my point stands that the “best” route runners minimum targets were set a bit low. If Moore was the 6th best WR on his team before the trade, it’s hard to take it seriously calling him an NFL best.

Moss, TO, Fitzgerald, Smith and Julio all played in the Super Bowl. Would we have been better off as a team with Dilfer instead of Cam? Football is a team sport and all of these guys were literally a play away from being SB winners. That one play doesn’t mean star WRs are worse than a group of good WRs. Calvin is the only one who didn’t get close but Detroit was horrifically bad overall his career. The last 4 SBs had AJ Brown, D. Smith, Higgins, Chase, Kupp, Godwin, Evans, Hill and Deebo. That’s a lot of star WRs. Out of the last 8 SB teams, only KC with Mahomes and Kelce didn’t have a stud WR. The other 7 teams had 1 or 2 stud WRs.

Ok buddy. I wasn’t aware that the Jets traded him but my point stands that obviously the Jets had no room for him with Wilson and all their additions like Lazard.

Gotta love when the minimum is what the leader had. On one route, Hill had 54 targets. Elijah Moore was the best WR at comeback routes. He had an overall grade of 57.5, which sucks and he likely isn’t making the Jets roster. We really are trying to hype up TMJ in here but a guy who’s touted here as the best deep ball guy in the NFL only has 1 TD and it was against garbage time backups when we were already losing by 35? I hope he’s as great as people think in here but I’m waiting until he’s not playing against CJ and Taylor. I still hope Mingo balls out because I’m hoping for better than TMJ’s finish. I see all this TMJ was rolling under Wilks, but in the last 6 games he had 0 TDs and had 1-8, 1-18, 3-51, 2-55, 2-15 and 2-23 as our starting WR2.

You got me, but context matters. I am not defending him as being a good coach. I was “defending” him there by correcting a misstatement, that he held players back by not playing them. That was a reply to another person on playing time (he was wrong) that you turned into player development.

SMH. Not defending Rhule at all. Sometimes I really wonder about reading comprehension around here. I said 2 things. One was that Rhule played rookies a lot and never hampered them by not playing them and the second was that we truly don’t know if he was horrible at player development. Given how much we laud our last 3 first rounders and Chinn (also Burns became a pro bowler under Rhule), maybe he wasn’t that bad or maybe they’ll be first team all pros with the new staff. No other players in the 2020-2022 drafts are so talented that we truly know if Rhule sucked developing them or that we over drafted them. Considering we took TMJ over Humphrey and Deonte and a long snapper over Trey Smith when we were desperate for OL in 2021, I’m honestly on the side of drafting poorly, in which Rhule was absolutely involved. Personally, I don’t think we are hiding studs. I’d say odds are 99% that our success and failure has to do with Young and the coaches and 1% with the chance that we have multiple hidden pro-bowlers that will be developed by the new staff.I’m excited about Young and the proven talent we have, not so much the long shots people think Rhule ruined.

And? Rhule sucked, we know that but one thing that was blatantly not true is that he somehow didn’t play rookies. TMJ, Iky, Horn, Brown, BC, Tremble, Taylor, Pride, Chinn, YGM, Hubbard, Smith and maybe a couple more all played significant minutes as rookies not counting injuries and many started day 1. That was the only point I made, nothing in my post about development. I truly have no idea if Rhule was any good at development. We laud Brown, Chinn, Iky and Horn and say they are top talent and he was the coach. Would they be even better? No one can say, yet. We traded away a lot of good picks so did we hit on good players after the first and Rhule ruined them or are they just mediocre talent? We’ll know better on a couple of them this year.

Is his speed a detriment? 4.59 40 at the combine feels slow.

What a terrible pick that was with a stud G sitting there for the taking. All the G talk with Corbett out and BC rated as our weak spot and Deonte is never mentioned even though he’s in year 3. I know it was a 6th, but Smith, Mays and Norwell types are around. Maybe they were considered more hard working than pure talent or maybe they had the talent but slipped due to non-football reasons, they are still the chances you want to take not projects that need a huge amount of work to be able to play at a high level. Glad we learned with Mays. Hopefully, we keep sticking to that formula for day 3 picks because we are a long way from being a deep team.

Totally agree. We don’t even know what post-Achilles Donte is and Horn has to demonstrate staying on the field, especially at the end of the year when it counts. Still also not completely sold on the pass coverage in safety land. I’m also with you on WR. I’m hoping Bryce is the real deal and elevates them but I’m still taking the TMJ breakthrough with a large grain of salt when the tweet also mentions Taylor slipping. The secondary the WRs are practicing against is garbage right now. I’m also a little worried that I don’t recall seeing a single tweet so far on Mingo balling. I expect any vets to handle CJ and Taylor, but I’d like to see some sparks from the rookie.

Damn, we have to have the smallest QB and LT by 100 lbs.