WhoKnows

It is embarrassing. It basically shows how many picks we gave up for crap (Darnold, Mayfield, CJ, Corral, and DJ Johnson for 9 picks) such that we have very little young talent. 31 other teams don’t have room for a 31 year old that’s been effectively out of football since 2018.

Of late? Man, it’s been 5 years since he’s had more than 33 yards in a season.

Signing WR/TEs who’s last reception was 4 years ago is a decent enough reason. He also only had 33 yards in 2019, so effectively it’s 5 years since he really played. We signed two starting FA WRs and have 2 recent round 2 WRs. We have a recent round 3 TE, signed a starting TE and have a TE we just extended, but we needed to sign a guy whose last season was 33

Is it Josh McDaniels that turned Renfro into crap? Renfro had a solid first two years going over 600 yards in each and then had that pro-bowl year 3. He missed 7 games last year but even when healthy last year and all of this year, he’s an afterthought. McDaniels offense has fallen off a cliff too.

I think we’ve seen the same bad trade ups and talent evaluation continue enough without Rhule to show that Fitt was as complicit as Rhule. Heck, even though they won’t admit it, we heard plenty of tidbits from huddlers, disappeared, that Fitt was handed the keys before the 2022 offseason since Rhule was obviously on the hot seat. Both should have hit the road at the same time and we paid the price. I’d be happy with Burns and DJ Moore but any sane GM knowing our roster limits would have jumped at 3 1sts (pick 15 and 2024/2025) and a 2nd (pick 36) to juice our talent and use the $50m a year rolled over on FAs in 2025 when Young was ready. We probably don’t finish 7-10. Two less wins and we had pick 5, three less pick 3. Would have been nice to get Young and use less picks. Instead we trade DJ for way less value than offered when we said we wouldn’t trade him and can’t sign Burns.

Lol. This is not huddle rage. It’s amazing that after proven wrong you have to post this in a completely different thread. Detroit, Miami, Jacksonville and the Jets have all made star player for multiple firsts/tanking moves in the past 3-4 years and all of them have gotten better and 3 of them look like potential perennial playoff contenders. Jets just haven’t had QB luck but they are still a better team. We, on the other hand have been handing out picks like candy and not committing to a rebuild. Guess who’s the worst team of the 5?

Finally, that’s the first step. Second step is realizing that we are in fact 0-6 and we have in fact been the worst team in the NFL the past few years. Welcome to reality where we are bad at rebuilding.

If Burns is off the market then there really is no point in trading anyone for late day 3 picks. Fitt has had 14, yes 14, day 3 picks in 3 drafts. The only starts we’ve had were because of injuries and only 1 of them has contributed (Hubbard) because we traded the best RB in the league for nada. We had 3 1sts (one was pick 15) and pick 36 in our hands last year for a rebuild and now we’re discussing some of our starters for day 3 picks and Burns hasn’t been extended. This is fun.

I’m pretty sure he’s not available because a trade for anything less than last year’s offer will make our hot seat GM look bad. I wish we’d just extend him because it’s just stupid at this point. Either sign him or trade him. If we’re still balking at what he wants, we should have traded him last year.

Lol. So true. Imagine we got Marvin Harrison Jr, La Porta and a stud LG for Burns along with $30M to spend that we spend on Tee Higgins and Gilmore. We’d still get the oh but our pass rush.

That’s season was more about Luck. He had 1 game above 94 rating in the first 6 games with 8 interceptions. In the last 10 games he had 8 games above 94 rating and 7 interceptions. Don't forget that Luck missed the entire 2017 season so he was rusty and got better. Their only loss in the last 10 games was Luck’s worst game in the last 10. If Young takes off, we do have an easy schedule.

It sure feels that way, but I still think the Chargers would win with a better coach. Staley just doesn’t seem to make good calls and know how to handle situations. Always feels like he makes the wrong calls and sometimes they get lucky but I put 90% on him.

Another decent deflection. So you are saying my examples were good teams so that’s why it worked and bad teams failed to get better after trading? So Jacksonville traded Ramsey to start their rebuilding in 2019. They had 1 win in 2020 and 3 wins in 2021 after 11 total wins in 2018/2019. They are now a playoff contender. Bad to good, so you’re wrong. Miami traded Tunsil/Fitpatrick in 2019 on their way to tank that year for Tua and got him at pick 5 in 2020. They had 5 wins in 2019 after 6 and 7 win years in 2017 and 2018. Again, bad to hood after trade. Jets were 2-14 the season the traded Adams. They got a starting OL and Garrett Wilson. Their current team, even with Rodgers being hurt is way better than they were in 2020. In Stafford’s last 2 season with Detroit, the Lions were 8-23-1. While Baltimore blasted them on Sunday, the Lions are a much better team now as well. So all 4 examples I gave were bad teams that turned good after the trades/tanking. Have fun with that. Also, WGAF if we used the picks on Burns’ replacement. Not sure if it was this thread but I said I’d use Burns’ $30M a year to get D, like Reddick or Floyd or Judon and another solid starter. There’s been plenty of good edge rushers being available at decent prices every year. Just go look at the sack leaders every year, plenty of new young draftees and FAs. I know this is hard to grasp but if we were able to turn the 3 Burns picks into a stud WR (2024 1st), solid young TE (pick 36) and a stud G (2025 1st), that’s a huge win seeing as we could also sign two $10-20M solid D starters in FA. Yeah, that would be terrible. Here let me puff my chest out even more.

I’ve always liked Burns but don’t think he’s elite. Also, we should have traded with the Rams. Right now they are pick 15 but their RB is on IR and they are likely to tail off like they did last year so more likely around pick 10 and likely similar next year. If we trade Burns now to a contender, yes we’ll get worse picks than we would have last year. We don’t need to replace Burns with a draft pick. Look at all the guys the last few years with 8-9+ sacks that were FAs. Reddick, Judon, Hendrickson, Miller, Floyd, Watt, Smith(s), Ngakoue, Houston (on a good D like Baltimore, not us) and if you go back to 2021 guys like Quinn and crazy guy in Las Vegas. There are several edge rushers available yearly. We for whatever reason let a really good one go.

What’s mind boggling is turning down that offer for Burns and not being able to extend him. Those picks were slated to be better than ours (Rams finished worse and started a fire sale) so we should have been able to parlay that into keeping Moore and still having our 2024 first and the Rams 2025 first. We’d be our Burns but with the $30M a year savings we could sign someone like Floyd and the top FA G to man LG. It was right there within our grasp and now it feels like we’ll sell Burns to the first team that offers a 2024 1st so Fitts can act like we got our full set of picks. Felt that way with CMC like he was trying yo make up for Darnold and Henderson. How awesome is it to realize Fitt basically traded CMC for a 2 year rental of Darnold and Henderson? At least we aren’t seeing anymore Fitt is great threads.

Hahahahahaha! So, you ask me what teams have improved from trading their top player(s) and I give you a list of current playoff contenders that did it and you come back with this? JFC, why can’t people just admit they’re wrong these days. You thought there wouldn’t be any examples and two teams who just bitchslapped the Burns led pass rush with back to back 42 points are on my list. Detroit and Miami are better now than before they traded Stafford and Tunsil/Fitzpatrick. Sorry man. It’s true and they just showed us.

Lol. I’m glad I’m completely wrong about something that I never argued against. I know a GM would “rather” have a 2023 first than a 2025 first. If that was what you were trying to say, you didn’t do a good job of stating the obvious at the start. What most smart rebuilding teams do is be OK with future firsts because winning today and tomorrow to go 5-12 or 6-11 is not their goal. Their goal is to win it all. If we would take a 2023 1st and 2nd over a 2024 1st, 2025 1st and a 2023 2nd (the actual offer) because of your halving theory then we are stupid and you are wrong. According to you, the 2024 first and 2025 first are 75% of a 2023 first due to halving value and halving/halving value. A smart rebuilding GM who isn’t trying to save his job in 2023, is smart enough to realize that we will be bad in 2023/2024 (on our way) and that in 2025-2027+ we’ll have 2 first round talents on the team instead of just one.

Exactly, I have no idea why people are defending Wilks. An opponent has 12 or so seconds left and 60 yards to go with no timeouts. The only way you give up a TD is if somehow their best WR gets behind coverage and makes a play. Not only was their best WR single covered, there was also no one deeper just in case. I will say Ward also should have knocked the ball away. I don’t know why in some cases CBs don’t just knock the ball away. With that little time, you just have to keep the ball as far from the WR as possible. By trying to intercept the ball, he made it possible for the WR to grab it away or if he doesn’t catch it, he made it possible to somehow bounce around to the WR.

No, it didn’t really work, Cousins was still able to get the ball well downfield. There were 7 seconds left when Addison scored and Minnesota had no timeouts. That play was basically a Hail Mary and yet there wasn’t a single defender behind Addison and he was single covered. That’s a terrible call. Sorry, but it was the type of blitz play you see on a last play before the half or end of the game that usually works because it’s not easy to get a 60 yard TD on any attempt. The problem is that when the other team has one play left and no timeouts and 60 yards to go, there is no reason to blitz and single cover their best WR. If the blitz is picked up, you gave the offense a chance as we saw. It was funny to hear the announcers skewer Wilks, but the DC is pretty much always skewered when they do something like that.

I bring them up because you said a first rounder 2 years ago is less useful than a player now. When people normally say that is when they equate the round down theory that a 2023 2nd is the same worth as a 2024 1st, which means a 2023 3rd is the same as a 2025 first. That’s what a team who wants to make the trade has to do to entice the other team to accept the trade, but it still doesn’t make the player on your team now more valuable to a rebuilding team. Honestly, to an 0-6 2023 team, having the exact same player as a 2025 1st can be more valuable than a 2023 1st. We would be wasting two years of their cheap rookie contract to be the 2nd worst team rather than the worst team. That’s basically what we saw with CMC and Moore, and now with Burns. Do we need a $30M edge rusher right now? We have Burns talent wise and we are 0-6. The reason we got two firsts and a 2nd from the Rams is because they thought they were still in the window and were willing to mortgage their future. Fitterer wasn’t smart enough to realize that a 2024 and 2025 first were basically the same to us as a 2023 and 2024 1st because 2023 was a complete waste of a year for your GM and coach to think we had a shot to compete while also showing that they aren’t good evaluators/maybe coaches.

Huh? Just because we have a shitty GM doesn’t mean those trades weren’t correct to do. The Bears could fug up our 2024 1st, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have traded the top pick. Fitterer didn’t do the Burns trade which was a great trade for us. We lost out big time.

There are two sides to every trade and the rebuilding team that is receiving team is more than willing to take future higher round picks. We aren’t a playoff contender in 2023 games or 2024. We were stupid if we felt like a 2024/2025 1st wasn’t good because it’s too far down the road. Why do you think the Dolphins went from bottom of the barrel to top of the barrel? They knew Tunsil and Fitzpatrick didn’t matter more than future 1sts and they were right. They’ve turned those firsts into a much more talented roster knowing they needed a few years to compete and now they are there. Please also do explain to me why Matt Corral is the same value as a 2024 1st and why DJ Johnson is the same value as a 2025 1st. We should have fleeced the Rams because they were willing to part with future potential picks for immediate returns. You are confusing the difference between the talent level of a player In a pick and what teams have to give up to make the other team accept the trade. Teams aren’t forced to accept trades and the team taking future picks accepts the trade because they value the future picks more. Otherwise the team accepting future picks wouldn’t make the trade, right? The talent level of a player is 100% based on the round in which they are selected. 1st rounders are always more talented on average than other rounds, regardless of the year selected.

Well, that wasn’t the question. I can list some great trades we should have done, but I can’t give you a good trade we’ve done because that would require a competent GM.

I don’t think CMC held himself out. That’s a Hurney special when we were out of contention. Start padding the IR list to keep the seat less hot.

That’s a bad approach. We are 0-6, a 2023 1st (which the Rams didn’t have) isn’t more valuable. The reason why bad teams like us are OK with future firsts is because they are more valuable to us. We are rebuilding and are not competitive yet. To us a 2025 1st is more valuable than to a current playoff team. There are people who think that every pick is devalued per year by a round which means a 2025 1st is worth a 2023 3rd. That’s stupid. The average 2023 3rd player is not more talented than the average 2025 1st. Since we weren’t competing in 2023 or 2024, except in our idiot FO’s mind, a 2025 1st is a 1st round talent and worth way more to us than a 2023 3rd. Think about it this way. Would you rather have a DE from the 2025 1st and a QB from the 2025 1st or DJ Johnson and Matt Corral. No one will convince me that the latter is worth anywhere close to the former for us as a rebuilding team.