Bear Hands

Yeah I agree here a lot. Trading up to take a guy at the end of your Day-2 tier list, with positional tunnel vision, is not how you want to do it. You shouldn't mortgage picks to move up for the last guy remaining in your EDGE grouping tier. You trade up, "with conviction" (to steal their terminology), for the guy you really want. Honestly, they should have just pounced on Tuli at 39 if they wanted an all-around EDGE to play day 1. Then, what you do, is trade up/or stay put at 93 for an offensive skill position player. Josh Downs, Achane, Michael Wilson, Tyjae Spears, the talent was there. Then, in keeping our second 4th rounder, could have still gotten great value around there with guys like Charlie Jones, Adebawore, Jay Ward, Tyler Scott, Abanikanda around that range. What's done is done, but that draft strategy after we took Bryce left a sour taste in my mouth. Much like the year prior with Brandon Smith and Matt Corral.

Not to mention, Rhule was on a shorter leash and rumors last year were that Fitt did gain leverage in roster construction. Impossible to know how true it was though. But with that being said, we proceeded to spend 5 picks on 3 guys no longer on the team in the 2022 draft. Yikes. And that’s a part of how you end up the worst team in the league.

Sure. What you said is fine, but seems like an independent point from what I'm saying.

That's such an outlier metric wise. It's also telling that the guys on the chart that are the furthest outliers are in very unique situations. Mac Jones: Genuinely terrible Jimmy G: Genuinely terrible Bryce Young: Has the 3rd lowest YPA in the modern era for starting QBs (min 8 games), but his first read is rarely open Tua: Highly effective offense he's running, his first read is often open. But he's also going above and beyond on deeper throws this year.

Many GMs work with coaches with a distinct vision in mind so there's trust and an agreed upon idea of the players they target vs. don't. That's league wide. Seems like we still just don't have an agreed upon framework and the guys that fit that...or they really thought they sufficiently addressed what they needed to. They knew all the right things to say but didn't actually do it. So it tells me rather than this being willful ignorance out of pride, this is them thinking they can make this happen with the players they have. So it's a miss in evaluation on the front end and coaching on the back.

After watching the presser—Gotta say, it’s hard not to notice that Brown has a lot of potential. The guy is young — and a staff of very different minds brought him in here as a counterpoint to their archaic direction. Feel like he’s the wrong guy to put in this position, it’s going to be a bad look around the league. He should be learning and growing into a legit coach not being ping ponged by a directionless Reich.

It’s super crazy how much dysfunction there is. 3 games, our only win, and it’s not like it was that different than the first 6 games. Frank gave Thomas the go and took it away in a bizarrely soon way. Brown got dirtied. Pretty much assured us this is all going to collapse. Onto the next regime.

There's the extremes in this Bryce debate, but it's possible to operate in the enormous grey area that is analyzing what it looks like Bryce is doing, all outside-team factors aside. No need to antagonize the other extremes people. With that said, I'm also just very surprised McNown isn't working with Bryce on his mechanics. Or if he IS, then that is troubling. I mean, that's correctable stuff. People have been noticing his shotgun drops style since Bama. It's just bewildering they're allowing him to stay this loose with it all, when mechanics and timing are everything at this level of play. So they're letting him maintain his habits that needed correcting, when in the NFL, everyone is as fast as the fastest player on the college field at their position. The personnel not aligning to the offense is the trump card for the year though. That takes the cake on poor decisions. We were trying to aspire to a McVay type offense yet we draft Mingo, give up picks for DJJ, and ignore 5+ absolute burners in this draft when we had no shifty guy. And if they were wanting that to be D. Byrd or Shi Smith, then god help us.

Oh he definitely does. The pro bowl fillers after guys decline got some 1 year wonders to find their way in. Maybe another year without a full contact game will help change the tide. But yeah, Jones is terrible.

It's been pretty bad since around 2016. Unsure how that lines up with a lot of changes there but outside of Duggar, Wise, think it can be argued it's one of the worst in the league. Mac Jones and their punter the only pro bowlers since 2016. Jury is still out on Strange, he's up and down. Thuney (and maybe Shaq Mason) are their only draft hits on the OL in over 10 years.

Still wild to think of. Compare what got the Texans from 12 to 3: 2023 1st, 2nd, 2024 1st, 3rd..(They had 2 first next year so kept the Browns pick)..nothing beyond in 2025. Now, imagine what 9 to 3 would have taken. Probably the same because Fitterer tends to get fleeced, but still, there's no DJ Moore in that trade. Could've been 9, one of our 2023 2nds & 2024's 1st. Maybe a future mid rounder, but not that 2025 2nd. So we weren't quite sure who we wanted but were willing to give up our best offensive player and more to move up 2 extra spots. Also, you tend to see the team trading up try to leverage a few late rounders to help with the quantity of picks and we really didn't do that. After adding DJ, I feel we could have netted at least a 5th from Chicago. Fail

Yeah I think that is one of the biggest gripes. Fitterer kept mentioning if you're trading up it means you have conviction for your guy. But we wheeled right at the combine and kept trying to figure out who we wanted. They traded while still evaluating and made the whole QB pro-day tour Just so much desperation--You don't give up that much when you can't decide who you want.

I will say, the impact on not being able to get on any sort of right track could cause many to really cut the team off. For me, the NBA transition to being a casual fan had a similar feel at this stage w/the Hornets. Annually, kept saying I wasn't going to continue watching but kept coming back. Would put on the bigger games, but still follow them closely, get all bent out of shape or excited at FA/Draft moves. Eventually though, I've found 2-3 teams I enjoy rooting for, not as a heavy fan or anything, just enjoy watching (Kings, Pacers right now), and now, I barely even pay attention to what the Hornets are doing in the standings. Went from apathy/always coming back to truly just cutting it.

Robert Mays & Chase Daniel chat our plethora of issues. Spotify & YT below -- either link of your choice, go to ~24:00 Notable takeaways: Absolutely emphasizes how poorly our receivers get separation -- seemed to emphasize that more than the OL. That doesn't mean the OL is "good", but they noted Campen and the same guys as last year were looking really good. There's obviously scheme issues. Bryce's footwork is always too casual and sloppy which needs to get fixed. It screws with his timing in NFL-clean pockets. What we're doing offensively is just not making sense. The inside zone vs. spread conflict we've seen going on is true. IMO, it's totally on coaching and Fitt. Not the right personnel <-> scheme fit. We have the 2nd highest 11 personnel deployment in the league. We're trying to run a Rams offense but without the pre-snap motion, bunch formations, no midirects, no typical bells and whistles. Easy as hell to play defense against. Bryce is also just very limited -- I.E. VS. CHI, on open boots to Sweat's side, he wasn't able to throw over him. Also hasn't been able to extend effectively at this level. The speed/quickness is caught up which will make his physical stature even more limiting that what was shown in college. But you also can't put this all on him. Not a good team, bottom line. No cohesive gameplan, no diverse route concepts, very bland and nothing scheme-worthy that would even get our receivers open My biggest gripe: We completely retooled this offense. Skill position players at every position, it was their choice to re-sign Bozeman, they claimed it was all collaborative, so Fitt & Reich either had no idea or couldn't get the right guys to fit the offense they wanted to run. It shows me they are trying to hard to emulate/keep up with the better teams rather than just make the best tailored offense from what you have. Crazy. https://theathletic.com/podcast/211-the-athletic-football-show/?episode=855

It's nothing we haven't heard before but coming from Chase Daniel, I find it interesting on a few notes: Absolutely emphasizes how poorly our receivers get separation -- emphasized that more than the OL Bryce's footwork is always too casual and sloppy which needs to get fixed Bryce is also just very limited but you can't put this all on him. Not a good team, bottom line. The inside zone vs. spread conflict we've seen going on is on coaching and Fitt. Not the right personnel - scheme fit. 2nd highest 11 personnel deployment in the league. We're trying to run a Rams offense but without the presnap motion, bunch formations, no midirects, no typical bells and whistles. Easy as hell to play defense against.

worthy of its own thread if you wanna start one. Really good breakdown by Mays and Chase.

I thought I was in a Belicheck rumor thread.

If both him and Horn don't work out, that's a huge indictment on this scouting staff, including Fitt. So many talented studs that we took them ahead of. We 're beginning to whiff on so many picks it's not even funny. Not a single recent surprisingly effective mid-later rounder. And the ones we thought were finds (Chinn, Christensen, etc.) have regressed. No stud guys at the top and we've had picks 1, 6, 8, & 7 in the past 4 years. I mean wtf. It's still early with Icky and Bryce, but the rest...

The Patriots have been having notably awful drafts for a while now. Don't want that to continue for us. No thank you.

I wonder if Dave is just saiyng f' it, "Nicole, the Panthers are your project, I'm gonna be over here for now, have fun"

If we're not going to play him, you're either paying him to take up a spot or just eating the loss and gaining an active spot. I say the latter, hopefully now, and especially once the year comes to an end. Just when we get out of dead cap hell, we have another signing that will add it back up.

I had never heard of this dude before and looked him up when signed..saw how the Saints fans panned him pretty hard. Surprised he lasted this long, let along got the starting nod for that long. It was BAD

I mean Breece Hall is a bit on a different level than any of the RBs we're talking. Cook, I'm surprised they didn't release him though. Doubt he does much the rest of his career. Abanikanda (R) beat him out though, which I get because that dude has some serious burners. Wanted him in the 5-6ish rounds.

Honestly, this makes sense if we're trying to test some changes out. Wouldn't hurt to see how he stacks up against our JAG committee.

Coaching coaching coaching (if we say it three times, does it just start happening effectively?)