Mage

I mean, of course he has more All-Purpose yards. He returned punts and kicks for 14 years. He doesn't even have 9,000 YFS.

In what world is Darren Sproles a HOFer

Wait what

Ravens with Julio Jones would be unfair.

Eh, he ain't a better deep threat than Moss but he's definitely top-5 minimum all-time (strictly talking about his deep threat ability). EDIT - Assuming he doesn't suffer a terrible injury or anything

I'd be really surprised if Roy and/or Pride were let go. All things considered, Pride played well last year relative to his draft position. Plus, Bouye will miss the first 2 games. I think he'll at the very least be active until Bouye's return. We finished the year with 4 DTs and 9 overall defensive lineman. Brown and Jones are a lock. Nixon probably is too. But who would be the other DT who beats out Roy? And assuming Burns/YGM/Haynes/Fox/Miller stick, that would leave us with 9 DL. So I think Roy stays barring another person being signed.

In what context? All-time bad as in, every NFL team included? Probably not. We still came away with Brian Burns. I'm sure there are drafts out there that came with 0 contributors. All-time bad in just Panthers history? I mean, it's terrible, but I think these drafts were worse: 2016 (Gettleman): We had 5 picks and spent 3 of them on CBs. Our 1st round pick was spent on a DT, which we did not need in the 1st. Bradberry turned out to be solid, but this might be our worst draft. At least 2019 has potentially given us good depth guys like Daley and Miller. Gettleman didn't make any effort to accumulate more picks. 2015 (Gettleman): Another draft with only 5 picks. Another draft where the 1st round pick was spent on a position we did not need (linebacker). Spent a 2nd round pick on Devin Funchess, which again was considered terrible at the time and in hindsight. Yes Shaq turned into a solid contributor and Williams had a solid season or two, but I'd take Brian Burns over both of them combined. Gettleman sucked so much it amazes me how people will still try and defend him lol 2014 (Gettleman): 6 picks. Drafted Kelvin Benjamin in the 1st round, even though he clearly wasn't that good of a prospect. We did end up with Trai Turner and Tre Boston, who was decent enough at safety, but once again I'll take Brian Burns over both of them. Honestly the 2013 draft was bad too, but I won't list it because we ended up with Star and Short. But only 5 picks again? And 3 of the guys don't do anything here (Klein was a MLB and we had already drafted Kuechly... you can't make picks like that when you only have 5 of them) Then of course the 2009-2011 drafts. All easily worse IMO - I'm not gonna give Hurney credit for making the obvious pick at #1 in 2011. But this draft (2019) definitely sucked too. Hurney and Gettleman both sucked. I'm very optimistic about Fitterer after this past draft, if only for the simple fact he's not wasting 1st round picks on positions we either don't need or aren't important, and because he's trying to accumulate picks, not stick with a total of 5 throughout the draft.

A bad Hurney draft?

Richard Marshall's career here made no sense to me. I could never tell if he was good or not. Him and Gamble were so, so good in 2009, but then Marshall decided to be terrible in 2010 lol

Tyler Brayton is another guy I liked a lot that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Matt Moore. I loved him. He wasn't given a fair shake in 2010. Yeah he wasn't great and probably not cut out to be a full-time starter, but he had a lot going against him that year. You could say the same for Clausen, but the biggest difference is Clausen was physically overmatched. Moore, to me, just seemed like he was trying too hard to overcompensate for a lot of other issues.

Nah, you can't trust a whiner like Teddy. This isn't the first time he's tried to deflect blame elsewhere too (the DJ Moore redzone situation comes to mind). I get people like him and think he's a good dude or whatever because he overcame injury, but man none of our QBs ever failed to take responsibility as much as he did. He just lacks that competitive edge. I mean hell, I seriously doubt Mike Shula was running practices better than Joe Brady, but you never heard Cam Newton say anything bad about Shula. Teddy is a whiner, and you can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth because guys like that want you to think that they did all they could to win football games. If Teddy had that much of a problem with practice, then why as a QB and a "leader" wouldn't he step up and say something? Like imagine knowing something is a problem all season long, but waiting until after the season when the team has gotten rid of you to say something? I'm telling ya'll man, don't put much stock in his words.

I mean Coughlin won 2 Super Bowls.

I mean, he went 9-7 in his first season there. 6-10 in the second. Obviously not great, but they weren't TERRIBLE, they just didn't have a QB. I think Saban could have had success if he stuck it out, but I do agree he's a much better college coach.

I don't want to bring Short back, but I would like us to add one more pass rusher. You can never have too many. Fox and YGM are good but as of now, mostly in a rotational role (I expect YGM to have a strong year though). It'd be nice to have another proven pass rusher like Burns and Reddick. I know we want to stay young, but Justin Houston would be a fantastic signing.

Sewell or Pitts.

That is a very winnable 4-game opening stretch, if true.

That is a crazy athletic defense.

Why do you think it sounds that way? I got the impression that Rhule and Fitterer weren't all that interested in Fields. Regardless, I actually think we should have drafted Justin Fields. LIS, I loved him as a prospect, so nothing I am saying is reflective of my personal opinion of him. I would have loved to double-dip. At the same time, too many people are coming to conclusions based on something we simply don't know. It is like they haven't watched the NFL for more than 2 years. This happens ALL the time. A "great" prospect "falls out of nowhere," every fanbase gets mad at their FO for passing on them, and then said player... fails. And as much as I like Fields, it isn't like the concerns aren't valid. His field processing is very slow (by far the biggest concern). He did play for a stacked team (the same criticism people throw at Mac Jones). That's all I'm saying. I just don't believe in calling picks bad before the games are played, unless the pick was made at a position the team clearly didn't need (Shaq Thompson, Vernon Butler). And cornerback has been a huge need for the Panthers forever.

Lol come on dude. I've always shown you respect on this forum and have said several times how highly I think of your posts/opinions. So why resort to insulting me? I understand what opportunity cost is. But if we take Fields and he fails, then how exactly does that work out in our favor? Yeah, of course if Fields turns into this amazing franchise QB, we missed out and sure, your "opportunity cost" argument applies. But if he lasts 3-4 years as a starter before the Bears give up on him, then exactly what opportunity was lost? Once again, this is why the debate is flawed. Because we're debating something we won't know until the games are played. The only difference is I'm just saying to exercise patience and that either side could be right, whereas you feel it necessary to tell me I don't understand a basic concept like opportunity cost. At the end of the day I'm not looking to get into a Darnold/Fields debate with you. My whole point was that suggesting using a 2nd round pick on someone constitutes "mortgaging the future" is wild logic. It ain't much different than drafting a bust with a 2nd round pick.

Yes, it is a QB league, but you can't throw darts at the position blindly. If you don't like a prospect, then why take him? That is the problem with this debate. You are saying they should have taken Fields presumably because you think he will succeed. They did not take Fields because, presumably, they do not think he is likely to succeed. You could be right. They could be right. But we won't know until football is played. Which is why IMO it is foolish (not calling you foolish - you're an amazing poster) to call it a bad pick because nobody really knows. I sound like a broken record but it bears repeating, we weren't the only team that wasn't high on Fields. He wasn't even given a sliver of consideration at any of the top 3 picks. The most desperate team in the NFL had to trade up and get him. I think everyone is still stuck on this idea that Fields is some amazing, can't miss prospect... and don't get me wrong, if that is your evaluation of him, stick to that. Always stick to your own evaluations. My point is though it ain't like the Panthers were alone in that feeling. We did the same thing a lot of other teams did. We'll find out at some point if those teams were right or if they weren't. And if we weren't, then heads will turn here eventually, I'm sure. But as of now? I think people are up in arms about the unknown.

The thing is, I'm not even saying I think Darnold will work out. I just think it is ridiculous how quick people want to call a pick bad or say we mortgaged our future before football is played. Ya'll do realize WAY better prospects than Justin Fields have done terribly in the NFL, right? It isn't like anything I'm saying is outlandish. I'm just asking for a wait-and-see approach. If we, like other teams, don't think Fields can be a franchise QB, then we made the choice we feel is best for us. We'd be in a WAY worse spot if we took Fields 8 and he and Darnold both flopped.

This is horrendous logic though. I'm sorry dude but it is. You don't know how Fields is going to turn out. What if we drafted Fields and he busted? That puts us in an even worse situation, because now we wasted draft capital on 2 QBs who didn't work out. That has the same likelihood as him being a franchise QB. And again, this isn't me arguing against Fields. I liked Fields, if not loved him as a prospect, and would gladly have welcomed him here. But you are flat-out, 100% exaggerating when you say we mortgaged your future. I literally just gave you an example of a team who did exactly what we did, got even less return on the field than we are likely to get with Darnold, and who ended up doing just fine the year following. Again, if Darnold fails like you say he will, then the Panthers will pick top 10 again next year. And again, there will be 3-4 QB prospects that people talk about in the 1st round, and 2 of them will fall... like it happens every single year. And Panthers will have a shot at one of them. It isn't the end of the world. Nobody knows how any of this will play out. Even if it is "predictable" that Darnold will fail, nobody knows how Fields will turn out. Again, clearly NFL teams didn't think as highly of Fields as we did, and it took the most desperate team in the NFL trading up for him. Sure players fall all the time but when it is a CB, and multiple QB needy teams pass on you? Yeah, I think we should take a step back and really reconsider how much of a "can't-miss" prospect he actually is, or how some of you are making him out to be. I just want to know. If Fields does terribly this year and looks like another Ohio State QB, and Horn does very well, are you still going to say it is a bad pick because of opportunity cost? And that right there is why I think calling anything a "bad pick" before football is played isn't sensible. Because how can it be a bad pick right now, but suddenly be a good pick next year? So until we see how this plays out, making statements like "we mortgaged our immediate future" are just completely off-base. If we had passed on Haskins when he fell years ago, ya'll would have been saying the same thing. "We could have gotten a potential franchise QB." But ish isn't guaranteed, especially for QBs.

I don't think he did though. A lot of people felt before the draft that the quality of DBs dropped off immensely after the 1st round, especially compared to OL and WR (so for example, if you needed both a CB and a WR, it makes more sense to go CB in the 1st and WR in the 2nd). Probably a big reason why you saw 5 drafted in the 1st round. Also why the Saints were trying to trade up, because they knew they would miss out on one. Horn went about where he should have gone (top 15).

Come on man. That is a MASSIVE exaggeration. Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them. And yet they went 10-6 last year. And I'd argue we are in a much better position entering 2019 than the Dolphins were, considering everyone and their momma predicted them to finish with the league's worst record that season. I get you aren't a fan of Darnold. But to say we mortgaged our immediate future? Nah. If he sucks it will be a bummer to not have that 2nd round pick next year but it is far from mortgaging the future, especially when you consider the sheer amount of cap space we are slated to have next year. That is the beauty of the NFL. There are opportunities to improve your team every year unless you are both in cap hell and don't have any draft capital (see: Texans). There will be opportunities to get a QB again, especially if Darnold fails as spectacularly as you predict.