tukafan21

Why are stats your end all be all in the discussion between two players? Since when do raw stats have anything to do with NFL potential, do you not realize how different the college game is and how the stats aren't everything? Malik Washington Oh, who's that you probably ask? He was a 6th round draft pick by the Dolphins this past year. Why do I bring him up you ask? Because he lead the nation last year with 110 catches, was 4th in yards, and a pathetic 26th in TD's BUT STATS!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! HOW CAN WE EVER JUDGE TWO PLAYERS DRAFT PROSPECTS AGAINST EACH OTHER ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN STATS?!?!?!?!?!

So me saying Hunter is a 1st round talent on either side of the ball, but he's a better CB prospect than WR, and if he did go in as a WR he's still the #2 or #3 WR in the draft, while also saying he's a legit generational college talent......... Is me not admitting he's a great player and is me tearing him down? What fuging planet are you living on?!?!?!?!?! This is such a baffling post, I've done nothing but give Hunter respect in all of my posts about him and have just said he's not going to be a 2 way player at the next level and he's not as good of a WR prospect as T-Mac is. But sure, I guess that's the same thing as me not admitting he's a great player and tearing him down, that makes total sense

If Hunter enters the draft as a WR, then 100% yes, and a very solid chance Burden goes before him as well. If he enters as a CB, there's just no way to predict it as it comes down to team needs of course.

If you want to start comparing NFL Draft prospects by looking at stats on a box score, then again, you just sound dumb. As I've said to you dozens upon dozens of times, the college and NFL game are entirely different. Just because you put up great stats in college, doesn't mean you are destined to be great in the NFL. Just look at all the Heisman QB's who were awful in the NFL, or never even got a chance because NFL execs knew their game didn't properly translate. Not to mention that EVERYTHING Colorado and Deion does on offense, is to maximize Shedeur's and Hunter's stats, even if it's not what is best for the team itself. Deion has proven that, he cares far more about his 2 kids and Hunter than the actual program, he's a glorified cheerleader, not a real HC. If he goes in as a WR, he's absolutely NOT being drafted above T-Mac. If he tries to be a 2 way player it won't work and he'll either be forced to one side of the ball or just be out of the league due to injuries from his body not being able to stand the physicality of playing both ways in the NFL (but I also don't think it would come to that because I don't see any NFL team earnestly letting him play full time both ways regardless). You're falling for the hype machine and collegiate impact, and confusing that with legitimate NFL draft prospects, two very different things.

The TLDR version of my response to this above is.... stop talking about his 2 way game when discussing his NFL Draft prospects. He won't be a full time 2 way player in the NFL no matter how much he wants to be one. So stop talking about it when saying it affects his draft status, it just makes you sound dumb. Talk about it in regards to his college greatness all you want, but it needs to stop there as it doesn't affect his NFL prospects, period.

This post literally proves what I've been saying about him and what you seem to just gloss over and ignore while saying it's a feather into his cap for his draft status. Him being a 2 way player has ZERO standing on his NFL draft prospects, as he will NOT be a full time 2 way player in the NFL, if that was even reasonably feasible, it would change things, but it's not. If he enters the draft as a CB, then sure, it gives him a slight boost because a team could look at him as someone they could give 10-15 snaps on offense a game as a gadget player. But his college 2 way game has less than zero impact on his NFL draft prospects as a full time WR. You can't seem to separate college impact from NFL draft prospects, they're literally 2 entirely different things, and if you can't acknowledge or understand that, then this conversation is just absurdly pointless anyways. And the comparisons have nothing to do with their game itself, just impact at each level. The Bush comparison is about his college vs NFL impact. Bush was a complete generational collegiate talent, there's been few like him with how he could take over a game, but he was just a solid NFL player with moments of greatness. Woodson was a generational collegiate talent who also could take over games, in a manner much more similar to Hunter, but his game translated to being a 1st baller HOFer. Which is why I say he's more Bush than Woodson, both game changers in college, but only one was also a generational NFL talent in the end. And again I have to clarify, none of this is saying he's going to be a bust or not even a 1st round talent. It's all as to why I rank him below TWO players in the draft next year if he were to decide to play WR. But you seem to think I'm saying he shouldn't be going until the 5th round or something with how you think I attack him.

Oh, and while I'll admit I didn't watch their game today, his stats today seem a bit underwhelming. 9 for 89 (and yes a TD as well) when he also had a 29 yard catch, so only had 60 yards on his other 8 catches, is kinda meh, sounds like he just got a bunch of short catches that he couldn't break into long gainers. Like I've said before, T-Mac is so much more of a prototypical outside #1 WR who is a downfield threat, but with Hunter's size, he's more of a slot WR who you need to get the ball into his hands for him to be most effective. Of course he can be a great NFL WR if he plays that side of the ball, but it's why I put him below T-Mac in particular. I'd rather have the true #1 than someone who's likely going to need to be more of a slot WR to be most effective in the NFL (and again I think he ends up on the defensive side of the ball anyways as most scouts agree it's the side he has a higher potential at the next level)

How many times do I have to tell you that there is a difference between NCAA and NFL football? His 2 way ability is something you just don't see anymore, so yea, when you can play both ways at a high level, it's going to likely make you the best player in the nation. That doesn't mean the same player has to then be considered the top player in the draft, not by any means. Just look at the numbers of Heisman winners who were drafted low and/or never had decent NFL careers. You're stuck on him being this generational NCAA talent and think that makes him the #1 WR, when in reality it's his 2nd best position, when combined with his size, makes him a better CB prospect than a WR. And even beyond that, it's not like I've ever said he's undraftable or even a mid round pick, I've said he's still likely a 1st rounder as WR, but just the 3rd best WR, not one of the Top 2 because there are 2 better WR prospects. The fact that you can't or won't see this argument and just take anything I say as attacking Hunter or saying he's awful, is YOU making it personal, not me, like you love to claim. I've said it before, he's more Reggie Bush, a generational college talent but someone who's game doesn't translate the same way to the NFL, than a Charles Woodson, a 2 way talent who was also ended up a 1st ballot HOFer.

Someone on another forum of mine said a close friend of theirs with family in Ashville just lost their parents and nephew and their sister is in trauma surgery after their house collapsed while they were on the roof waiting for a rescue. This is all terrible stuff, but losing so much of your family in a way like that is just unfathomable, I couldn't imagine. I hope all my fellow Panthers fans living in NC are staying as safe as possible

At this rate, unless Daniels can flip a switch in his head and completely change his running style, he won't be their starting QB 5 years from now. It has nothing to do with him not being good, as he clearly has a very high ceiling, but he just can't get sliding into his head properly, and at some point, if he can't change that, he's going to get hurt. He has RG3 and Tua written all over him, and while he may get away with it 95% of the time, all it takes is that 5% to rear it's ugly head and take a hit or two that he shouldn't have, and it's all downhill for him from there. If he was built like a Cam, Allen, Richardson, then it would be different, but he's not, he looks like a very similar body type to RG3, and we've seen that doesn't hold up in this league over time if you can't properly slide when you're supposed to. It's still early and he very well could change, but if he doesn't, he's in trouble

Agree-ish on this We can do that, but only way to do it is to openly say it’s to prevent him from injury while trying to trade him As not even getting a jersey and being bumped down below Plummer without openly saying we’re trading him, would also hurt his trade value as well. Its just a bad situation all around right now, hopefully someone just makes a dumb offer of like a 2nd for him and we jump all over it

Actually disagree with the "next week" part of this, but agree if you change that to "after the trade deadline" His trade value will never be lower than it is this next week (unless he plays again and looks awful). Dalton looking this good just makes Bryce look even worse, I think all those teams calling about Bryce this past week just lowered their offers for him after watching this one. Need to wait a bit for Dalton to struggle a game and thus give Bryce a little more leeway in the eyes of other GM's as to him not being the entire problem.

Again, in the short term, but not the long run when you start to build a real NFL roster with true talent at the top end of the draft for a few years. I don't see Lions or Texans fans complaining about FA's not wanting to sign with them because they were complete dog poo 4 years ago. It's never going to be a one year fix to re-build a roster this void of elite talent. Yes, I'll give you that we've been such a mess since Tepper bought the team that it certainly won't attract FA's, but the last 5 years are a sunk cost at this point. Making current and future decisions based on past mistakes is only a path to continuing to make mistakes.

The same people bashing me in this thread today will be the same ones who are complaining in April when we miss out on X, Y, or Z players they wanted at the top of the draft because we're picking 7th instead of 3rd. Then they'll be the same ones complaining that we're a 8-9 team 3 years from now and still not contending

At no point in Kuechly's career did we ever have a jersey with sewn on Panthers logos on the sleeve, they were ALWAYS the screen pressed logos, that alone is a dead giveaway that it's not an official jersey. Not to mention the different captains logo patches, they've never changed those, yet they're not the same on each jersey

Oh, and you're right, all the takes in this thread are now on the record and I'll be bookmarking the thread to bring it back up in the future... I'm not shying away from my take because of backlash, because I know this isn't how you re-build an NFL franchise, it's how you get stuck in NFL purgatory forever. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. We've never embraced sucking to do a complete re-build, we only keep trying to patch over mistakes with temporary fixes and it hasn't worked for the last decade. But sure, let's keep trying that because we're just sick of not being the team we want to be

You think we're in the playoff hunt because we'd be 1-2 and beat a team who will also be picking in the Top 10, if not Top 5, next season? How much do you want to bet that we won't even sniff the playoff hunt this season? Because name your price, I'm in.

I don't want to use the top pick next year for a QB, I want to use it to trade back to take a non-QB, build up more draft assets, and continue to stockpile good players/picks that will pay off a few years down the line. Look at what the Lions and Texans have done in the last 3-5 years, THAT's how you go about building a contending team when you have a roster like we currently have, not trying to patch over the problem areas every season.

WHAT?!?!?! I'm sorry, but I'm still stuck on your first sentence, as it's literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said We went out and wong meaningless games, put us as the 9th pick in the draft and then made a stupid trade giving up great assets, just to take the wrong QB anyways. How can you "suck to build assets" when you didn't get that top draft asset due to said sucking, and then traded away your other high draft picks (plus a Top 20 WR) to get the draft pick. What you're describing is the opposite of what I'm saying. Take your lumps for a few years and build a team around your own Top Five 1st and 2nd round draft picks for a few seasons. Not trade away your future to get the top draft pick in a bad QB class and then take a middle school sized QB

If he walks in FA, odds are he won't be a 3rd round comp pick type of signing for someone else, he'd be a 4th or 5th rounder I absolutely think a contending team would give up a 3rd or 4th rounder if they think he could put them over the top. So even if it was a 4th rounder that falls in the late 20's, that's still better than a 4th round comp pick. I also would be shocked if Tepper allows us to not make a splash FA signing in the offseason after how this season goes, which in turn would then negate getting a comp pick for him signing elsewhere.

This is my point though, we haven't played for draft picks since 2010 and we just tossed Clausen out there to the wolves. Ever since then we've always tried to win meaningless games instead of playing for the draft picks, and it hasn't worked. In Cam's prime I was okay with it, having a QB like that changes the equation. But when you don't have that QB and you have such a dearth of talent as we do now, you need to play for the draft picks a bit and it's just not something we've actually ever done in earnest, hence why we haven't had a Top 5 draft pick since 2011 (not counting the one we had to make a stupid trade to get or the one we didn't have ourselves because of said stupid trade).

Why do you think everything is so personal when it comes to opinions on players? None of this has a single thing to do with you or T-Mac. If Hunter came out and said he was going to focus on being a CB only, then yes, I'd say he has Top 5 draft pick type of talent. If Hunter came out and said he was going to focus on being a WR only, then no, I wouldn't say he has Top 5 draft pick talent on that side of the ball, but he would still be a 1st round WR on my board. That's not an insult to him, that's still praising his ability, but it's not just blinding saying he's going to be an elite player in the NFL because of what he's able to do at the college level. I've also said this to you multiple times, I've clearly said that he could be an absolute elite CB in the league, but just a very good WR, not a true elite Top 5-10 type of guy. And that if he tries to do both in the NFL, he's just going to end up as a bust overall as he'll end up never being able to reach his potential because of it. That's not hating the player, it's looking at his game and how it translates to the NFL, it's called having objective opinions.

Yes.

You're the same person who said we were going to be SB contenders last season after we drafted Bryce So I apologize if I don't bend the knee to your college talent evaluations.

So if I bookmark this thread and bring it back up in 5 years, when we haven't had a winning season and still don't have a franchise QB... would I still be an idiot? Because if I said the same stuff 5 years ago, people would have said the same thing then, but look at us now.