tukafan21

Sure, but there are bad takes, and there was how hard I banged that T-Mac drum during the whole season and kept it up all offseason until the draft.

Well it's a good thing his final year was in the Big 12 then I guess

Neither can I, lol A. I'll never be able to show my face around these parts again, haha and B and more importantly... I'll be devastated if he ends up a bust for us. It sucked enough for me when Antoine Cason didn't work out for us, as he was an All American and Thorpe award winner at Arizona when I was there as we were both Freshman the same year, so I loved him. I couldn't imagine if my Arizona GOAT, who I'm so confident in becoming a star, didn't work out after we drafted him. But.... it's okay, because that's just not going to happen, my guy is a beast and is going to challenge Smitty for Panthers GOAT WR, LFG!!!!!!!!!

In many of the cases, it's been an equal split to both for a very specific reason We clearly spent a number of years following the old Al Davis method of drafting and looking for the unicorn athletes and hope we can coach them up to being great NFL players, and it clearly hasn't worked. So it was bad evaluating to fall in love with raw physical ability and then it was bad development to turn them into quality players, all around failure.

Sure, totally get it, I also just have an absurdly high level of confidence in T-Mac, lol. I've said it before, there have been a lot of Arizona football and basketball players that I thought were going to be great pros, all star/pro type of guys. And there have been plenty of them who just did not pan out in the end, in both sports, some drafted very high, like Derrick Williams #2 overall in the NBA draft, who was probably my biggest miss in terms of confidence. But there are only 2 that I've ever had 1 million confidence that they would be true studs and be star players and T-Mac is the 2nd of those, the first was Rob Gronkowski. T-Mac is the only player in either sport since Gronk that gave me the same feeling when watching him, that I'm watching a future top end player in the NFL at his position. And I'd say I was right on the first one, kinda the TE GOAT. So for me it's not if he pans out, it's just if he stays healthy, because on-field wise, he's panning out.

I get that, but given his college production, his actual skill set, and what he's shown in camp, he really just seems like the only way he doesn't at least play to his floor is if he can't stay healthy or he just gets a huge head and stops putting in the effort, the latter of which I don't see happening. So hopefully he stays healthy (knock on wood), but there's unfortunately no way of predicting health, you can really only predict a player not able to stay healthy if they already had problems doing so in college.

True, but even after drafting said WR in the 1st last year, we knew we didn't have a great WR room, particularly as we knew he was more of a project WR than someone who should be able to step into the #1 WR role from day 1 like T-Mac is already doing. Plus, our #1 going into last year was a player many were hoping we'd end up signing to an extension. WR room going into this year vs last year T-Mac >>> Johnson Renfrow >>> ISM Coker >>> Coker XL > XL Horn Jr > Mingo Thielen = Thielen With 4 of them under contract for the next few years and Renfrow a possible re-signing if he finds his old form (unless someone unexpectedly drops a bag at his feet, but I doubt he'll play THAT well for that to happen). So yes, nothing is guaranteed, but again, it would take a really bad season for us to feel the need to draft a WR next year in anything before the 5th round, which at that point would still likely only be a BPA type of situation, not out of need.

Being plagued with depth problems isn't the root cause, it's problems with drafting and it unfortunately takes at least a few years to turn that around. You're really never going to be able to build much depth through Free Agency. It's years of drafting well and having solid players on rookie deals for 4 years, with their years 2-4 being that quality depth who then goes and signs bigger deals elsewhere for a chance at more playing time. And that's where you need years worth of successful drafting, because as they leave for bigger roles/contracts, they are replaced by the next batch of guys you drafted and were waiting a year or two behind the previous batch. I think we've greatly improved our drafting the last couple of years, along with seemingly hitting on some solid UDFA's at the same time. So we're on our way, but it will still take another year or two of quality drafting and coaching up the previous mid to late round picks to really build a quality stable of backup depth.

I know it's only been training camp and one preseason game, but I think T-Mac has already shown his floor to be exactly what I said about him in the pre-draft process. That his floor if he never improves his game, is as one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL, if not even still a low end #1 (i.e. a 25th-ish best WR in the league). I think it's safe to say he's already established himself as our #1, and there are only a small handful of teams in the league where I don't think he'd be their starting #2 WR in Week 1. Bengals (Higgins), Dolphins (Waddle), Eagles (Smith), Bucs (Godwin if healthy), Rams (Adams) are really the only teams where I think he'd be the #3 as a rookie in Week 1. A few others like the Lions (Williams), Bears (Odunze), Seahawks (Kupp), Commanders (Deebo), where he'd be the 2b to start the season, just because they're vets and/or already have a year or two of experience with their team/QB. And even having said that, I think by year 2, he's better than every one of those players (And no, I'm not saying he's already going to be better than a prime version of Adams, just whatever he'll be at 33 next year), and same goes for Kupp, but that's more because it seems like his body might be quitting on him in a way that hasn't happened to Adams (yet).

Well to be fair, Horn not practicing right now to let his stitches heal up from a car accident isn't something that should be concerning. Sure, you don't want him missing practice leading into the season, but it's one that once healed, won't have lingering affects or fear of re-injuring it, it was just bad luck.

If we need to draft another WR next year, something went horribly wrong this year, in one season it went from our worst position group to probably 2nd best after our OL. I have zero fear about T-Mac being a true #1, Coker seems to have shown a ton of improvement and could end up as our #2 all season no matter how improved XL is, if Renfrow stays healthy, I think he re-signs a hometown friendly deal to replace Thielen as the vet slot. Even if XL and Horn Jr. struggle (and I'm not guessing they will), I'm not so sure WR is a need in the draft next year, more likely a position that would be supplemented through a cheaper FA signing.

No, I'm saying your preference is just wrong. I get your wanting of us taking a shot, but I'm just saying the pass they did call was the more prudent call to make in game 1 for them. It's not about Bryce spending the preseason on what he does well, it's about Bryce and T-Mac getting their timing down ASAP, and taking a deep shot isn't going to help that, but the play they did make, 100% will. That's not a preference, that's just the way it is, it's so much more important for them to get that timing down than to practice something they're not as good at, they can do that at practice all day if they want, game timing is something you can only replicate in a game.

I think it depends on your definition of "better" for the deep catches vs the crossers or slot plays he made in college. Because yes, he was probably more effective on them as it got him more open and he could catch the ball in stride to get YAC, just the nature of those routes. But the types of plays he makes down the field are ones that there are only a small handful of players in this league that can make them on a regular basis.

No, the point your missing is that getting that timing down on the route/pass they're going to be running much more frequently, is more important in game 1 than taking the shot downfield because they're not as good at that one. It's better for them to be excellent at one thing and average at another than to be slightly above average at both. Because when push comes to shove, you're going to call the plays that you do excellent, not the ones you do at an above average execution. I'm not saying never take the shot in the preseason, but the first chance you get for the two of them to get a real in game situation, it's much more prudent to work on the route/pass that will be used more frequently this year. And it's not like we're talking about a 10 yard button hook route here either, it was a 30 yard lofted over the head back shoulder catch, that ain't easy. If they get that route down, it's near indefensible when T-Mac gets 1 on 1 coverage, no matter who the defender is on him. That's a ball the CB can't break up and it comes down to T-Mac making the catch, which he does far more often than not.

Honestly, after actually seeing it now, my best guess is it's more of just a personal superstition for that kicker and how he places the ball on the tee. Because really, with how he has it aligned, he's not kicking the laces anyways. So it might look odd, but really it's no different than if the laces were more directly outward.

Can't say I've ever paid any attention to the laces on kick offs before, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's a new strategy based on the new kick off rules because popping it up into the air with some wobble to it is probably the most effective kick off style these days.

Huge difference in kicking a FG that has to stay within a small margin of error and kicking off when it just needs to stay in bounds. I'd say that kicking the laces on those to where it adds a little wobble to the ball flight would be more effective when someone has to try and catch the ball, you don't need a nice smooth flight path like on FG's.

Sure, but correct me if I'm wrong, they also changed the missed FG rules a little while back (maybe 5ish years ago I think?). Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but years ago, if you missed a FG, the other team got the ball from the LOS, but now they get the ball where it was kicked from, right? If I'm remembering it right, that meant missing a 55 yard FG with the old rules would give the ball to the other team at their own 38 yard line, where as a miss from 65 yards now gives them the ball at your own 45 yard line. 10 yard difference in the FG length, but 17 yards difference in field position for the other team. When you combine that with how much stronger kicker's legs are today, the risk level for a 55 yarder back then is nowhere near comparable to a 65 yarder now.

You're conflating being able to throw a vertical route with a defense needing to always be worried about it and needing to keep a safety deep on most snaps because of it They're two very different things. Yes, if/when a team leaves themselves vulnerable over the top and we get the right 1 on 1 matchup, you need to take the shot. But that's not going to be a go-to play for Bryce in his career, because it's just not his style of game/arm, so wasting such precious little preseason snaps on those throws as opposed to a throw he's going to be attempting multiple times every week, just wouldn't make any sense. And yes, it's always been one of my main concerns with Bryce, both pre-draft and still today, that his physical limitations will always restrict what we can do with him as our QB. But he also has certain strengths that even some of the better QB's struggle with, in particular, his ability to place passes with touch. That's why getting game reps, even preseason, on those outside touch throws is exactly what they should be doing, because it's helping him get his timing down with T-Mac on a play they plan on running on a consistent basis this year and into the future. I always said that hat Bryce does well meshes really well with what T-Mac brings to the table. That size, catch radius, and hands catching ability is a picture perfect skill set for someone with Bryce's touch pass placement. They're going to feast on those high and outside throws along the sideline where the defender won't have any chance of breaking up the throw.

Well in that case, then it's pointless to discuss, because Bryce just doesn't have the arm to make teams stress about being vertically challenged in that way. It's just the way it is with Bryce, every QB has their own strengths and weaknesses that teams will be afraid of or not. And no, preseason games are not just practice vs players that don't know you. Just like Canales was saying for his reasoning for playing the starters, even a preseason game is just a different environment than practice, and it's more than just once the ball is snapped. It's the overall process of the mentality needed for game day. Making that pass/catch in a stadium filled with fans and opponents you don't know is night and day from making it out on the practice field, no matter who is on the other side of the practice field rep. And working on your strengths is VERY different when you're talking about a running game vs the passing game with a 1st year combo of QB and his #1 WR, it's apples and oranges.

Nobody is consistent from 65 yards. Justin Tucker is the best long distance kicker in league history and even he's only 64/96 from 50+ in his career. So again, they'll try those super long ones in end of half situations or in the 2nd half of games to where a made FG will tie or take the lead. But in the first half or when they have a lead (or down more than 3 points), they aren't going to be trying many 65+ yard FGs.

You focus on weaknesses in practice, but with a 1st year together QB/WR combo, you focus on strengths in preseason games to get your timing down in game situations. And I think your question of who that guy should be depends on your definition of "go route" If you're talking about a Tyreek Hill type of go route, to where you're hoping to throw it past the back end of the defense for someone to run underneath, then yea, it's XL. But as you noted and I said numerous times in the lead up to the draft when people wanted us to get a pure speedster #1 WR (like Golden), Bryce doesn't have that type of arm to properly take advantage of a pure speed guy. But if you consider a deep jump ball a "go route" as it still technically is the same route for the WR, then it's T-Mac over XL 100 times out of 99. I'd even make the argument that before he even steps onto the field in a regular season game, that T-Mac is a Top 5 deep jump ball WR in the league already, it's probably his greatest strength because of his size and hands.

lol, that's a great point and something I've taken to an extreme level in talking with my friends recently. Was joking with someone last week that I'm actually now fine with losing the SB's because if we won either of them, it would likely have been a butterfly affect that lead to us never ending up with T-Mac, everything over the last 30 years lead to my most perfectly imaginable scenario. Now sure, it was mostly tongue in cheek as I'd love to have won a SB. But T-Mac was already my favorite college player of all time and now he's a Panther. I think I've actually been rather reserved in expressing my excitement about it on here, which is saying something considering how annoying I'm sure I've been on here since draft night (and the pre-draft process), LOL.

Yes and no End of half situations, sure, but in reality, even if he has the leg for that long of a kick, 98 times out of 100 they aren't going to even consider it because missing it gives the other team crazy good field position.

huh?!?! Either I'm not following you here or you are woefully wrong on a few fronts First is that yes, we know Bryce is pretty good at that sideline fade touch pass, which is EXACTLY why it should be what they are throwing in the preseason and getting reps of. That's not a pass/play that you can easily just throw a QB/WR combo out there and run without practice as it's all about timing and knowing each other's tendencies. So since that's going to be a go-to play call for Bryce/T-Mac this year, it needs these preseason reps to learn each other's styles and timings so they hit the ground running in Week 1 and not take the first month of the season still feeling each other out. Beyond that, I genuinely have no idea why you'd say that should be an XL route and that it's not the type of WR T-Mac is, as it's very literally the exact opposite of that. It's the PERFECT route for T-Mac because of his size, catch radius, and hands, he excels at working the sideline where the QB can put the ball where only he has the chance to catch it. And when you combine that with his away from his body hands catching ability, it's a perfect combo. Whereas XL's worse hands make that a significantly more difficult catch and not at all his forte. And while yes, T-Mac is a great go-route guy because of his jump ball ability, there is an easy argument to make that XL's pure speed makes him the better deep ball threat than T-Mac, because he can run past the defense in a way T-Mac can't. (albeit, with the above, I still think it leans T-Mac's way because of Bryce and him not having a cannon for an arm where he can throw it past the safeties anyways, he's more of a jump ball deep ball QB, which again, is a major strength of T-Mac's)