tukafan21

Would Courtland Sutton be considered "very notable"? As he's someone I'd love to go after, might not be that true #1, but I think he'd be a significant upgrade over Chark on the outside

This season is no longer about trying to contend, it has 1 goal and only 1 goal, to expedite Bryce's development. I'm good with overpaying to get a WR to help with that, but it has to be someone who is young, can be kept long term, and most importantly WANTS to be here. We can't get stuck with a diva WR who is unhappy with losing and it spreading like a cancer to the rest of the team, particularly the offense and Bryce.

The only "notable WR" that could even be a realistic target for us is Higgins, anyone else and it's just internal discussions that won't go anywhere. Adams is unhappy losing, he wouldn't be okay coming here, Jeudy isn't good enough to be a "very notable WR", I know we asked about Watson but GB isn't trading him, Hollywood will cost us too much for someone who is a FA after the season (and also isn't likely "very notable"). Unless we're talking to someone completely unexpected (like the Watson interest was) then I can't imagine this being anything more than the team internally wanting to go after someone who we either don't have the ammo to get or isn't a realistic trade target for us anyways.

I feel like Chinn's usage is maybe this staff's biggest blunder so far. The guy is so talented, was runner up in ROY, and we just refuse to put in on the field in a contract season for him. There is a 0% chance he'll re-sign with us even though I feel like he might be one of our best players on defense (Burns, Brown, Luvu are really the only players I'd for sure rank over him). Just a huge swing and a miss by this staff and now his trade value has been destroyed by his injury, we'd be lucky to get a late 5th for him at this point, such a shame but I think we have to take anything offered, even a 7th, as he's NOT coming back next year with how we've used him, gotta get something for him.

I think people overestimate how many actual good CBs there are in the league these days. Donte, even with his struggles, is likely still one of the top 30-40 CBs in the NFL, maybe even better than that. So yea, seeing as Horn can't stay on the field, he kinda is too valuable to trade away or else we'll be starting even worse players at corner.

That isn't the most difficult thing for good coaches to teach out of a player of William's caliber, especially since a big reason he holds onto the ball too long in college is because he's usually able to get away with it because of how good he is.

Every QB listed there gets us a win in the Falcons, Saints, and Vikings games at minimum and would have had us in the Seattle game, hell, Dalton had us in that one for much of the game. And the point isn't about what other QB's would do with our roster. It's that we gave up far too much for a QB of Bryce's max potential.

If we didn't make the trade, we would have a 1st round pick on our team from this year's draft and our first next year. The literal definition of giving up 2 firsts for him If it makes you feel better to say we gave up a first and two 2nd's to move up in the draft to take him, sure, go ahead and say it that way, but it's just semantics at that point, we still gave up 2 firsts to get the pick.

He's the right fit for that offense and it's helping him put up stats, but are you really saying there aren't 10 QBs in this league that you'd take instead of him? Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Jackson are 8 QB's currently playing that I'd take over Goff as just players without a second thought (not considering specific fit of QB within an offense and weapons, which is why I think Goff is successful right now). That doesn't include Rodgers, who if you count him, you're clearly taking over Goff. Cousins, Geno, Stafford, Dak would all be ones that would be close and debatable. Stroud is probably not one you'd take at this very moment (although maybe some would), but in a year or two, I think is going to be a much better QB than Goff is. Watson has significantly higher upside if he can find his old game again. The point is that right now Goff is at the peak of his QB abilities and a huge reason they have maybe the best OC in the game right now, one of the best WRs, OLs (as a whole), and a great run game. Throw Bryce into that offense and he's going to be successful. When you trade away what we did, you shouldn't be trading for a Goff type of player, it should be for one of those other guys who can carry a weaker team around them to success, Goff isn't doing that and neither will Bryce. The Rams made a similar trade to move up to get Goff, and even after he was their starting QB on a team that went to a SB, they decided to give up 2 first round picks to be able to trade him for Stafford.

The problem isn't that Bryce will be fine or that he'll be a good QB in this league. It's that we gave up so much that anything less than being an elite top 10 QB in this league, it will never be worth the trade we made. You can't give up 2 Firsts, 2 Seconds, and DJ Moore for an average NFL QB, that's just not okay. His ceiling feels like what Jared Goff is right now, someone they were given 2 First round picks to take on, not traded away to get.

For what? For putting the same hypothetical trade out there that I've been yelling about for a few weeks now? That trade with the Bengals and a similar one with the Lions, Burns + Chark for Jameson Williams + 1st + 2nd or 3rd both make a ton of sense for us to make and are pretty fair trades. The problem with both is that I don't see the other side wanting to do those trades for two different reasons. The Lions will need to give Hutchinson an extension after next year, not sure they will want to pay both Burns and Hutch big money while trading away Jameson and a First, even if it would give them a better shot at making a run this year. The Bengals I think would have less of an issue paying Burns, but I don't think they want to get rid of Higgins during the season when he would be key to their SB chances and then can tag and trade him in the offseason.

Sweet baby jesus, when will people stop talking about Jeudy He's a replacement level player with a $13 million contract next season and is one of the bigger WR divas in the league right now. Nothing about him is attractive for the Panthers

Burns + TMJ to the Bengals for Higgins + 1st + 3rd Pair him back up with his LSU teammates, get us the WR and draft picks we need

LOL He's frustrated with losing, so sure, the fix of that is to trade him to the only winless team in the league and he's going to love that. I'd have no problem with him being a Panther, clearly is still a #1, but he wouldn't be happy here and it would cost us to much to get him. Unfortunately just not a good fit

No, it’s how the franchise tag works. I said it in another thread just yesterday, I don’t think a team will give up two firsts mid season for him, but someone 100% will try to sign him in the offseason if tagged, the cost of doing that is 2 firsts. It’s just the rules, not homer talk

First, I need to let it go? YOU keep saying this same thing in so many threads the last couple weeks about how people told you this about those guys and bitching about not having a #1. But beyond that, I've never said we didn't need a #1, I've been screaming it from the moment we traded DJ But knowing you need one, wanting you need one, and being realistic about who we can get or how we can get them can't be ignored, but you seem to keep wanting to. Once we spent the money we did on Chark and Thielen, then drafting Mingo, that was it, it was a wrap for us making any other non back of the rotation additions to the WR room, even once D-Hop became available. The team felt that Chark was going to be a good enough #1, it never was about TMJ or Mingo being the #1 and them having failed, they were always meant to be a #2 on the outside to Clark's #1 with Thielen in the slot. At that point, the money and draft pick commitment was made to go into the season with those 3, TMJ, and Laviska as our Top 5 WRs. Overspending on a D-Hop, to use up a big chunk what precious cap room we'll finally have next season while also essentially eliminating TMJ and/or Mingo from getting meaningful snaps just wasn't an option. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and we should have never factored TMJ into the equation, but he had a strong finish to last year and the team and it's fans believed he could have been finally showing some of his potential. If he was even a solid #2 level WR right now after 6 games, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now, as with what Thielen is doing, if we had TMJ putting up #2 numbers, we'd be fine with those 2 along with what Chark and Mingo have provided. Sure, if we can get a Higgins somehow this year, go for it, but short of another random WR becoming available that we didn't think would be, there isn't any reason to make a trade for average WRs like Jeudy or even Brown right now. We just have to stick it out for the season and make sure to make a splash signing or trade in the offseason for a true #1. Again, this is where you mix the Madden view with real life NFL football, involving salary cap space both this year and into the future, as well as trying to build up players for the future, rather than one year (which is why Mingo did and still does need meaningful snaps and targets). It's all a give and take, you can't just manipulate things to get whoever you want just because you want to.

Being able to throw a ball 55 yards and being able to throw a catchable ball 55 yards that the DB won't break up are two different things.

Nah, he'd have to look REALLY bad the rest of the year for a team to not want to do it in the offseason. They'll look at his enormous potential and what he showed before this year, and chalk it up to the new defense not using him correctly and believe that "in our system he'll thrive" just like all teams do. You put him on a contender, where the team is usually playing with a lead so he can pin his ears back and just pass rush, and have better players around him, particularly the secondary to make the QB hold the ball longer, and he's going to be a beast.

No, we told you Chark took the money and spot of what could be used to get a true #1. Take his $6 million, add another 5-6 on top, and get the true #1. TMJ and Mingo were brought up in that they needed to get playing time this year to see if TMJ could be anything and to help develop Mingo. Just because TMJ is showing that he sucks and Mingo isn't there yet, doesn't mean we could have gone after a true #1 after signing Chark. Again, this is the stuff I was talking about in looking at things from a Madden player standpoint. In real life NFL you have to consider all factors, not just "do we have a legit #1 WR, no? ok let's get one, implications be damned"

lol yea, don't know why I didn't think of that, I think I was just trying to get rid of TMJ in my mind hahahaha. But sure, Burns and Chark for Jameson and a 1st, works for me

oh, and HELLLLLLLL NOOOOOO to giving up our 3rd to get Jeudy. That's going to be a top 70 pick, for the right to get an average player who we'll owe $13 million to next year. The contract alone for a player of his ability is why I just wouldn't consider a trade for him unless it involves a pick swap with us getting something good back. I'll give them a 5th for Jeudy and their 2024 3rd, but that would be the most I'd even consider for him.

Because the cost of signing someone on a franchise tag is 2 firsts, and a team out there will 100% pay two late first rounders to get a pass rusher of his ability, no question about it. That might be a tough one to swing mid season, but come FA season someone will do it.

Not enough in return, someone will give more. I'm still hanging on the pipe dream of a trade with the Lions for Jameson and a First, maybe we throw in TMJ to help offset losing a WR, but still don't think they're doing it because they'll also need to pay Hutchinson after next season, that's just too much at one position in back to back years.

The people who don’t think Higgins is a “true #1” are really just speaking in code, and the code is, “Higgins isn’t a Top 10 WR so I don’t consider him a WR #1” Its like they think Top 10 WRs become available each off season and that’s who we should be targeting instead, so dumb