tukafan21

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you can compare these two size wise, Russ is much more built to last in the NFL than Young is, by miles. Wilson at the Combine Bryce Young at his Pro Day

So if Young is on a different level compared to Stroud mentally. What would you consider Stroud's level compared to Young's in size? Stroud is great mentally but you say Young is on a different level. Young is the furthest thing from having great size, Stroud's comparison there would be like comparing Brady's career to Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell's

You're stuck on "weight" and "frame" being the same thing, they're not Adding weight doesn't give you a stockier frame, it just makes you heavier. Two different things, and Young has a VERY small frame. Kyler is almost the same size as Young, but just look at them, one is thick, one isn't. That's the difference in Frame vs the difference in Weight.

Mahomes isn't as good at reading the defense as say a Drew Brees is, but I'd rather have Mahomes as my QB. You're talking about Stroud as if he's Levis, someone who has questionable decision making in college, but he's not, he's Elite in that area, Stroud is just Elite +1 in the same area.

No it's not, he can add weight, but he can only add so much because he just has a very slim frame to him. You put too much weight onto that frame and it will affect other aspects of his game. You can coach up Stroud's mental side of the game, which is where Young is elite. And as I've said numerous times, we're not talking about a dummy back there who can't read defenses and has a poor mental side to their game (I see you Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, Kyler Murray, etc). Stroud is already very good at that, just not quite to the same level as Young. I think that can be coached up with the right coaches more easily than you can get Young to bulk up enough to protect him from injury.

I agree with this except "will" needs to be changed to "could" and it's more accurate, neither are a slam dunk by any means. Which is why I lean Stroud No, he's no guarantee to stay healthier, longer, but his size gives him a better possibility of that happening. Size isn't the end factor in it all, just part of the equation just like every other aspect that goes into evaluating the two. I have them basically about even if you remove the size factor, once you add that onto the scales, they tip in favor of Stroud for me. Again, if it was between Young and either Levis or AR, then that size factor is outweighed on the scales by the rest of what makes Young great in comparison to the other two.

Yep, that's my concern, the difference is Russ is a tad taller, but a significantly stockier build to his frame, which is my concern with Young, not his height.

I just hope he isn’t projecting Seattle Russ onto Young and that being why he likes him so much

Two questions... do you know what "in a vacuum" means and you realize the outcome of something doesn't mean something else was a bad decision, right? Trading a conditional 5th round pick for a QB just a year removed from carrying the freaking Browns to the playoffs, is 100% a smart decision, no matter how it ended up, it was the correct call and risk to make at the time. The Darnold trade was more questionable, but still the correct and smart decision at the time. Sure, in the end it sucked to lose the 2nd rounder we gave up, but the 4th and 6th rounders in the deal are closer to throwaways than real losses. And in the situation we were in at QB, a 2nd round pick for someone who still had legit starting potential at the time, was again, absolutely a smart risk to take. No, they didn't work out in the end and the two trades stacked on top of each other do compound each decision individually to make it worse, but that's why "in a vacuum" they were the correct and smart decisions at the time. Was drafting Ryan Leaf the smart decision for the Chargers at the time? Of course it was Was it a good decision that worked out when looking back? Of course it wasn't Doesn't mean it wasn't the smart decision at the time.

Uh...... show me one place where I said they should be considering Levis or AR? I just said they should be meeting with them and doing their homework on them because it's their job to do so. I'm not saying go and do the research on Hooker anymore, that ship sailed when we traded up to #1. And yes, while it's 100% going to be either Stroud or Young, the future of this franchise rides on this decision, to not do your due diligence just as a backup and to be safe, then you're really not doing your job. What happens if the Colts get desperate, offer us #4, #35, their next 3 years of 1sts, and Pittman on top? I've long said trading back shouldn't even be in the discussion, you take your top ranked guy and call it a day. But if they got stupid and offered that to us, I'm absolutely taking that offer, hoping whichever QB falls to #4 works out, and if not, between our picks and the Colts picks, we'd be able to move up as needed in the next few years to get someone else while still having picks/players to spare.

Oh, and to the point about the past decisions being mis-evaluations, I'm not even 100% sure I agree with that sentiment either. I think they were calculated risks that didn't work out, partially due to a terrible coaching staff and the cumulative nature of their bad decisions over the years in building out a full team. In a vacuum, both QB trades were smart decisions in my mind, took chances on guys who still had every chance at being successful NFL QB's and didn't have to give up anything too significant to give it a shot. If either of those QB's worked out, we'd have looked like geniuses for getting them for the value we gave up to get them. The problem was just that neither worked out so on top of each other they compounded into a bigger issue. Think about it, Baker was let go and immediately signed to start for the Rams the rest of the year and is now looking to be the starter in TB this year. Darnold was signed by one of the most well respected coaches in the game right now, do you think he does that if he thinks Darnold is utter garbage? Obviously I'm 1000% for moving on from them, but with the right staff and team in place, I don't think either player would have played as bad as they did for us.

No, no we shouldn't have drafted Fields. I'm also still very much of the opinion that the Bears should have traded Fields instead of the draft pick. He's a great running QB, but he's a worse passer than Lamar or Cam. Teams eventually figure out how to defend those running QB's, especially as they get older and bodies start to breakdown a little bit and are forced to run less and pass from the pocket more. Fields is never going to be an elite QB, taking a possible shut down corner was WAY smarter. The only debate is if we should have taken Surtain over Horn, but I'm still good with Horn.

Those last 2 bullet points are about as scary as possible. In what world should an assistant coach have more sway in the room than the HC? And just because the moron you hired before Reich was a bubbling bafoon, it doesn't mean you should step in as a non football person to make the football decision. You hired Reich, you let him and your GM make the decision together. You allow everyone else to provide their input and say for them to consider, but you just hired Reich to be the guy, you have to let him choose the QB or else why did you hire him? If Reich wanted to take Levis over Young, okay, maybe then I'm stepping in as the owner and putting my foot down (at least after giving up what we did to move up to #1). But not if they're debating between the two players that are almost universally viewed as the 1-2 at the top.

This place would also are unbearable if we take Stroud and then Young goes on to be the best short QB of all time, plays a long 15 year career, and Stroud is anything less than a HOF in his own right. I'm in the Stroud camp myself, but the point is that you can do it both ways with these guys. They're forever going to be linked by Panthers and Texans fan bases no matter who chooses who, because both sides will always have to play the "what if game" with the player they don't select. To be honest though, it's why I was never a fan of trading a haul to move up in the draft this year. I don't think either are can't miss prospects and by moving up to #1, it really puts that pressure and hindsight on everyone involved to have made the right call, and if not, it could haunt the franchise and fan base for decades, if not forever (think Trailblazer fans are over passing on Jordan yet? or how about Chargers fans wishing the Colts took Leaf instead?). Yea, I'm happy that we'll end up with one of the top 2 guys, but initially I wanted to either see if one of the 4 fell to us, only move up as high needed to ensure we landed the 4th off the board and save on some assets, or pass on QB completely this year and go all in to move up next year in a deeper class.

So...... basically the least shocking news of all time? If the staff didn't have dinner/meet with each of the Top 4 QB's, then they're not doing their jobs, even if they know with 100% certainty that they're taking Stroud or Young, you still have to do your due diligence. I don't see it happening, but what happens if they go through the process, decide they can't live with one of them for some reason, and then the other has a Laremy Tunsil situation on draft day, you need to have done your work on the other 2 just to be safe and certain.

I think Seattle is trying to trade back to pick up assets, can't think of any other reason for them to be doing this. Unless both the Panthers and Texans find something in one of these two guys that they can't live with, neither is trading out of the top 2 and neither are taking AR or Levis. So I take this as Seattle trying to make it look like they're interested in taking a QB at #5 if one falls to them in the hopes that someone gives them a sweetheart offer to move into the spot for that final top 4 QB.

And Stroud has a better arm and is probably a tad bit more accurate. There are things each are better at than the others, that's why there is no general consensus among talent evaluators as to who is actually the better prospect. Which is why I think they're very similarly rated prospects and you can nitpick which attributes you prefer in each of them. You can teach a QB to process and manage the game better, which by the way, Stroud isn't poor at those things, he's actually very good at them, he's just not quite the same level as Young there yet. But you can't teach Young to get bigger

I think that's exactly why this fan base is concerned over Young's size. If Cam broke down in the manner he did, why do we want to draft someone 7" and 50 lbs smaller and hope he'll hold up for 10+ years? I don't think a single person has ever argued that Stroud is going to stay healthier because of his size, it's the other way around, it's just the concern over Young not being able to because of his size. Those are two VERY different arguments

Not even in the slightest I'm justifying not picking a player because I don't think his frame is going to hold up. The whole water argument is solely about why I don't believe he actually weighs 205. Stroud weighed 10 lbs heavier at the combine than Young, in no way is that legitimate, like, zero, zilch, nada, absolutely not a chance in hell. So unless the scale was broken for one of them, Young was carrying a solid 10-15 lbs of additional weight that he doesn't play at or Stroud cut 10-15 lbs that he does play at... which one seems more likely to you?

Not really Doing it constantly for years on end it would take a serious toll, but not a one time thing.

You guys are also ignoring that he didn't work out at the combine either, I'll bet he ate terribly for the week leading into it on purpose knowing he didn't need to work out at the same time. You can easily put on 5+ lbs in a week with terrible eating on it's own, combine that with a lot of water in the 24 hours before weighing in and it's not hard to put on 15 lbs for that weigh in and then cutting it back to your normal weight within a few days afterwards.

you do realize how those fighters put that weight back on after cutting it, right? They don't go out there and eat a ton of food, they drink a poo ton of water and other performance related drinks. If they can put 15 lbs back on there without dying from water poisoning, it 100% works the other way around to put that water into your system for a few hours and then pee/sweat it all back out over the next day or so. And yes, there are safety issues to it, but not really from a one time thing like this is, it's that those guys do it constantly for their entire careers, that's why it's so bad for their bodies.

Absolutely, you don't think so? Every standard plastic water bottle is approximately 1 lbs of added weight. You don't think he could chug 10 of them in the 20 minutes before being weighed in, and that would be on top of him adding weight in the days leading into that day as well. Sure he'd feel bloated as hell and would piss like a racehorse afterwards, but that weighing in was the most important thing he can do to help his draft status, he would have been able to do it without any problem.

Yea... so I'll just say it since there really isn't a nice way to say it...... The whole, "can you tell me with certainty that CJ will last longer than Bryce" is by far, the dumbest, most moronic, asinine argument anyone can make, not to mention lazy. Let me ask you this... can you tell me with certainty that Bryce will be a better QB than CJ? If not, then you're still taking a chance (see how that works?) Again, nobody is saying his injury concern is the ultimate decision making factor, it's just all part of the equation that factors into your decision. If it was Young vs AR15 or Levis, then you take Young and take on that risk of his frame holding up. But when you have another prospect who is essentially already a toss up with Young in regards to actual football ability, the size factor is 100% something that can tip the scales in Stroud's favor.

I actually don't think Tepper will have any say in who we draft in the end. I think he's smart enough to realize he hired Reich and allowed him to put this staff together for a reason. He might give his own thoughts into the matter, but when it comes to actually making a decision, I think he's going to be smart enough to let the football guys make the actual call.