tukafan21

If the Bears and/or Cardinals end up with Top 5 picks because of the trades with us and the Texans during this past draft, they could both go down as two of the dumbest trades of all time given the QB talent in this draft.

I've still got my two Biakabutuka jerseys as well, thankfully his jersey wasn't easily found in my area in children sizes at the time, so they were basically a dress on me back then, but fit me now. My authentic black one is my usual gameday jersey, especially now seeing as I don't have any current player jerseys at the moment. It's also helped protect me a bit at the couple of Panthers games I've gone to in Detroit. Cam's rookie year a guy sitting behind us started heckling me as we were walking down the row to our seats, but as soon as we got there and he could see the back of the jersey, he laughed as he was a Michigan fan and turned the game into fun banter instead of drunk abuse lol.

oh yea, fug Ohio, we do not like each other as states, let alone the Michigan-OSU rivalry. Ohio is a POS state, everything about it is just garbage. It's well known by Michiganders that if you have to drive through Ohio, you need to know to watch your speed. The hatred runs so deep that cops will pull you over in Ohio if you have Michigan plates and are going just a few MPH above the limit.

he hasn't made any impact?!?!?! The Falcons coach literally said that he blew up their gameplay with how he played in the first half and they had to completely alter their second half strategy to deal with it. Just because the rest of the defense and the offense isn't yet up to the task of carrying their own weight, doesn't mean he isn't impacting games. We also had a pretty good defense the second half of the season last year, I don't think that happens without his pass rush. Pass rush starts everything on a defense if you can get to the QB quickly, it makes every other player on the team better because they have to do their job for less amount of time.

I'll admit that I'm too young and not local to NC to have been able to follow the team closely enough back then to have ever heard any of that stuff. I'm a Panthers fan because of Biakabutuka Have lived in Michigan my whole life (outside of my years in Arizona for college) and grew up a big Michigan fan with Biakabutuka as my favorite player thanks to him having a monster game against my dad's alma mater in my first ever Michigan football game I went to. My dad took me to the HOF the year before we joined the league and I loved the team's colors and logo (which my friends to this day like to make fun of me for liking the team for those reasons, but c'mon, I was like a 7 year old kid at the time haha). While there he bought me a Panthers mini helmet and a HOF game shirt with us playing the Jags on it. I casually rooted for us that first season, as much as any kid that age could from Michigan and pre-internet. Then when we drafted my favorite player going into that second season, I got hooked, almost 30 years later and here we are. So yea, I don't even care what he was on the field, he brought the Panthers into my life (for better or maybe worse lol).

Agreed, I guess my point was that I can't see how that best next man up would be Mays, it's clearly Zavala or else Mays would be playing RG right now.

Yes and no It's not like we were going to pay someone who has just been average, he's been a borderline elite pass rusher for 3 years now who everyone could see was teetering on the edge of stepping into that elite category. Sometimes you just have to take the risk with a guy like that and sign them to a bigger deal than you'd have liked, because you believe in him and that he'll be worth it. The second we turned down 2 firsts for him, we signaled that we believed he was going to take that leap. If the team even had the slightest question that he'd get there, they'd have taken that trade and laughed while doing so. That's a key difference here than with the old Marty crap. He paid players for what they did in the past, not what he thought they'd do in the future, very very different.

That's my concern and why we should have just given him what he wanted before the season started, as whatever the number was, it was lower than what it will be when he balls out this year. I think people forget that even when he was drafted, he was a bit of a project. He was still a bit undersized for a DE and got by in college on his raw physical talents, something everyone knew wouldn't work from the jump in the NFL due to him being a little light. Combine that with the epically bad coaching staff he had, I don't think it was a surprise that he struggled at times so far in his career. But his pass rushing ability was always evident, now he has a competent coaching staff, has bulked up, he was always poised to have a monster breakout season, most fans saw this coming, not sure how the staff couldn't when they watched him every day all summer and raved about him.

Oh, and if anyone names Biakabutuka in this thread, I'm coming for ya!

Agreed, I know it might be semantics to some, but I think there is a clear and distinct difference between a bust and a pick that didn't work out. A bust was a player who ended up being a player who just couldn't live up to their draft expectations while actually playing. But a player who played at an elite level but just couldn't stay healthy, that isn't a bust, provided they weren't coming into the league with injury issues that the team felt okay knowingly taking a risk on.

I've just about given up all hope that we'll re-sign him this season at this point. If we can't get a deal done before week 2, short of offering him the same numbers Bosa got, I don't think Burns' camp will agree to a new deal anymore, especially if he gets another sack this weekend. Hell, if he plays a few more games the same way as week 1, he'd be assured of his contract stature even if he got hurt and missed the rest of the season (knock on wood), the more he plays like this, the less injury risk is a concern for him I think.

I mean, he kind of has to, no? I know I spent yesterday arguing keeping him on the right even when Corbett came back, but that was assuming we had a healthy startle LG. Don't think it's a good idea to throw Mays over there on Bryce's blindside, put him in at RG and slide Zavala over to the left and get him settled into his position for hopefully the next 10 years, a year earlier than I was hoping we'd need to do so.

Talk about pumping the brakes... Williams is probably the best QB prospect since Luck and possibly even a better prospect than he was as well. Bryce's mental side of the game is unheard of for a prospect, which is what gives him a chance to be good or even great. But his physical side does have some limitations, it doesn't mean he can't be great, guys like Brady weren't physical specimens. But guys like Williams don't grow on trees, there's a reason he's compared to Mahomes in what he can do, it's next level stuff. And I know I've been tough on Bryce, admittedly because I never wanted him solely due to his size and my concerns about him being able to have a long healthy career. But this post is not a knock on him at all, it's a positive post for Williams, he's just that good of a prospect.

Anyone serious about watching football isn't going to try and compare the first game of a rookie on the road to Tom Brady's 2nd and 3rd season's playoff runs, literally just nonsense. Guess that's what I get for feeding the trolls

I get it, but my original post on this was really more meant to be in regards to the people who keep getting upset at Fitterer for taking Horn instead of those guys, and more that it was a bust of a selection than the player themselves. Oden also is a little different as Durant was there and I think people knew Oden was a walking injury risk at the time, something Horn was not.

Okay, PS makes more sense as he'd be an odd signing as a 3rd RB, we don't need him as that right now, we need a big bruising back.

I just think you're underestimating how difficult it could be for a rookie who has only played RG in camp and the season to make the switch to the other side mid-season, even if it's their natural side and college position. The whole point of this discussion is what you do if Zavala is playing so well that he can't move to being a backup when Corbett is healthy. We're not talking about a first round OG who was always destined to start, just depended on the side, he was a 3rd round pick with some upside, I don't think you mess with it if it's going that well.

In Brady's first season as a starter, which was also his second year in the league, he had 2,843 yards, 18 TDs, and 12 Int. The Patriots won those early championships because of their defense, not because Brady was Brady yet, the second set of rings was because of Brady being Brady.

Bryce Young. Bryce Young is the reason I don't like the idea of throwing a rookie who missed most of camp into a new position for him at this level, mid season, when Ickey admittedly struggled in the pre-season. The unfortunate truth is that for at least the next few years, keeping Bryce upright and healthy is the most important thing this team can do and every OL decision should be based around that and nothing else. Yes, I agree, the future best version of this OL is Ickey-Zavala-Bozeman-Corbett-Moton, but I don't think that's the best OL right now to keep Bryce upright, particularly when that would mean making a rookie who missed most of camp and the time he did get was at RG move mid-season to the other side. Having that be the left side of your line is a scary proposition with a rookie QB the size of Bryce. If Zavala is still playing well and BC isn't poo'ing the bed when Corbett is healthy, I'd rather have Corbett be the backup than shift Zavala mid-season, it scares me that much.

Teddy would be a solid starting QB in this league if he didn't have the fatal flaw of consistently turning the ball over. Yes, I know Bryce had 2 INTs, but it was his first game, I think INTs will be the least of his worries in his career with his mental approach to the game, he'll be lightyears better than Two Gloves ever was in that area. Having said that, comparing Bryce's passing chart in his first ever game without his fastest WR is just a fools errand anyways.

No, this is the worst revisionist history take about that draft, by all teams who look back on it. Parsons was NOT viewed as a pass rusher coming into the draft, he was a MLB and only even shifted to OLB because of injuries and then he was so good at that, that he's now become a legit DE/OLB pass rusher only. Taking a MLB at 8 who had just taken the previous season off (due to covid) and had other questions about his NFL potential would have been irresponsible. Hell, a lot of people felt Kuechly was taken way too high at #9 for a MLB, and he was a significantly better college player than Parsons ever was (Kuechly literally had the same amount of tackles in his last collegiate season that Parsons had in his career, 191). This isn't the case of a player just over performing their draft expectations, it's someone who essentially is playing an entirely different position than anyone ever expected. If teams saw this pass rushing ability from him, he goes at worst #3 in the draft and quite possibly #2 over Wilson. He's an entirely unique case when looking back at the draft, and one I can't come up with a good comparison for. Best comparison would be more like if a team took an RB who was forced to play WR due to injuries and was so good there that he became a Top 3 WR in the entire league.

Yes, I agree, always liked the phrase of "the best ability is availability" But too many people are trying to blame Fitterer for taking Horn over those other guys who are all blowing up. I'm not saying Fitterer hasn't done a bunch of things that deserve questioning and criticism, but this pick isn't one of them. There are tons of first round picks that stay healthy and are still busts, those are the ones where it's fair to be upset at your GM for taking them over other better players. But not for someone who has performed at an elite level when on the field but just keeps getting hurt, those are just unfortunate picks that didn't work out for the team, but not a bad pick. Bottom line, if Horn has stayed healthy, people might have wished we took Surtain, Parsons, or Smith over him, but I don't think people would be upset with Horn the player, and that's a key difference to me.

People need to stop calling Horn a dud When on the field, he's played like a Top 10 corner Nobody can predict injuries in the NFL unless they already struggled to stay healthy in college, something that wasn't an issue with Horn. I get being upset that so many others in that range are turning into stars, but this is just a bad luck situation much more than just a bad pick. If he sucked when on the field, then yes, it would have been just a bad pick, but that's not the case here.

LOL, talk about a Madden trade idea if there ever was one. With the QB's out there on the FA market, we would be legitimately lucky if they offered even a single 6th rounder for him. Nobody is giving up decent middle round picks for Andy Dalton instead of just signing someone like Wentz. And even then, he's worth more to us as a mentor to Bryce than a future 6th rounder would be, I wouldn't even pick up the phone knowing what they'd likely be offering us for him.

So players routinely get hurt on grass fields, and when they do, nobody says a thing. Players get the exact same injury on turf and everyone immediately is up in arms saying it's the turf's fault. Sure, maybe there is a chance it was caused do to the turf, but why do people refuse to accept that sometimes, injuries just happen, field surface aside. Dobbins and Rodgers had the same injury, one on grass, one on turf. poo happens