tukafan21

The problem isn't that Bryce will be fine or that he'll be a good QB in this league. It's that we gave up so much that anything less than being an elite top 10 QB in this league, it will never be worth the trade we made. You can't give up 2 Firsts, 2 Seconds, and DJ Moore for an average NFL QB, that's just not okay. His ceiling feels like what Jared Goff is right now, someone they were given 2 First round picks to take on, not traded away to get.

For what? For putting the same hypothetical trade out there that I've been yelling about for a few weeks now? That trade with the Bengals and a similar one with the Lions, Burns + Chark for Jameson Williams + 1st + 2nd or 3rd both make a ton of sense for us to make and are pretty fair trades. The problem with both is that I don't see the other side wanting to do those trades for two different reasons. The Lions will need to give Hutchinson an extension after next year, not sure they will want to pay both Burns and Hutch big money while trading away Jameson and a First, even if it would give them a better shot at making a run this year. The Bengals I think would have less of an issue paying Burns, but I don't think they want to get rid of Higgins during the season when he would be key to their SB chances and then can tag and trade him in the offseason.

Sweet baby jesus, when will people stop talking about Jeudy He's a replacement level player with a $13 million contract next season and is one of the bigger WR divas in the league right now. Nothing about him is attractive for the Panthers

Burns + TMJ to the Bengals for Higgins + 1st + 3rd Pair him back up with his LSU teammates, get us the WR and draft picks we need

LOL He's frustrated with losing, so sure, the fix of that is to trade him to the only winless team in the league and he's going to love that. I'd have no problem with him being a Panther, clearly is still a #1, but he wouldn't be happy here and it would cost us to much to get him. Unfortunately just not a good fit

No, it’s how the franchise tag works. I said it in another thread just yesterday, I don’t think a team will give up two firsts mid season for him, but someone 100% will try to sign him in the offseason if tagged, the cost of doing that is 2 firsts. It’s just the rules, not homer talk

First, I need to let it go? YOU keep saying this same thing in so many threads the last couple weeks about how people told you this about those guys and bitching about not having a #1. But beyond that, I've never said we didn't need a #1, I've been screaming it from the moment we traded DJ But knowing you need one, wanting you need one, and being realistic about who we can get or how we can get them can't be ignored, but you seem to keep wanting to. Once we spent the money we did on Chark and Thielen, then drafting Mingo, that was it, it was a wrap for us making any other non back of the rotation additions to the WR room, even once D-Hop became available. The team felt that Chark was going to be a good enough #1, it never was about TMJ or Mingo being the #1 and them having failed, they were always meant to be a #2 on the outside to Clark's #1 with Thielen in the slot. At that point, the money and draft pick commitment was made to go into the season with those 3, TMJ, and Laviska as our Top 5 WRs. Overspending on a D-Hop, to use up a big chunk what precious cap room we'll finally have next season while also essentially eliminating TMJ and/or Mingo from getting meaningful snaps just wasn't an option. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and we should have never factored TMJ into the equation, but he had a strong finish to last year and the team and it's fans believed he could have been finally showing some of his potential. If he was even a solid #2 level WR right now after 6 games, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now, as with what Thielen is doing, if we had TMJ putting up #2 numbers, we'd be fine with those 2 along with what Chark and Mingo have provided. Sure, if we can get a Higgins somehow this year, go for it, but short of another random WR becoming available that we didn't think would be, there isn't any reason to make a trade for average WRs like Jeudy or even Brown right now. We just have to stick it out for the season and make sure to make a splash signing or trade in the offseason for a true #1. Again, this is where you mix the Madden view with real life NFL football, involving salary cap space both this year and into the future, as well as trying to build up players for the future, rather than one year (which is why Mingo did and still does need meaningful snaps and targets). It's all a give and take, you can't just manipulate things to get whoever you want just because you want to.

Being able to throw a ball 55 yards and being able to throw a catchable ball 55 yards that the DB won't break up are two different things.

Nah, he'd have to look REALLY bad the rest of the year for a team to not want to do it in the offseason. They'll look at his enormous potential and what he showed before this year, and chalk it up to the new defense not using him correctly and believe that "in our system he'll thrive" just like all teams do. You put him on a contender, where the team is usually playing with a lead so he can pin his ears back and just pass rush, and have better players around him, particularly the secondary to make the QB hold the ball longer, and he's going to be a beast.

No, we told you Chark took the money and spot of what could be used to get a true #1. Take his $6 million, add another 5-6 on top, and get the true #1. TMJ and Mingo were brought up in that they needed to get playing time this year to see if TMJ could be anything and to help develop Mingo. Just because TMJ is showing that he sucks and Mingo isn't there yet, doesn't mean we could have gone after a true #1 after signing Chark. Again, this is the stuff I was talking about in looking at things from a Madden player standpoint. In real life NFL you have to consider all factors, not just "do we have a legit #1 WR, no? ok let's get one, implications be damned"

lol yea, don't know why I didn't think of that, I think I was just trying to get rid of TMJ in my mind hahahaha. But sure, Burns and Chark for Jameson and a 1st, works for me

oh, and HELLLLLLLL NOOOOOO to giving up our 3rd to get Jeudy. That's going to be a top 70 pick, for the right to get an average player who we'll owe $13 million to next year. The contract alone for a player of his ability is why I just wouldn't consider a trade for him unless it involves a pick swap with us getting something good back. I'll give them a 5th for Jeudy and their 2024 3rd, but that would be the most I'd even consider for him.

Because the cost of signing someone on a franchise tag is 2 firsts, and a team out there will 100% pay two late first rounders to get a pass rusher of his ability, no question about it. That might be a tough one to swing mid season, but come FA season someone will do it.

Not enough in return, someone will give more. I'm still hanging on the pipe dream of a trade with the Lions for Jameson and a First, maybe we throw in TMJ to help offset losing a WR, but still don't think they're doing it because they'll also need to pay Hutchinson after next season, that's just too much at one position in back to back years.

The people who don’t think Higgins is a “true #1” are really just speaking in code, and the code is, “Higgins isn’t a Top 10 WR so I don’t consider him a WR #1” Its like they think Top 10 WRs become available each off season and that’s who we should be targeting instead, so dumb

Eh, not necessarily true. If McCown was one of the guys who didn't want Bryce, he'll have plenty of opportunities to be a QB coach or even a OC on a team where the HC runs the show with other teams.

It's tough for a coordinator to turn down a first time HC job, so if he were to get an offer, it would need to be a team he wouldn't really want to go to and Tepper make him a stupid money offer to stay. It would be different than Ben Johnson, the Lions really did have something going and would be contenders this year, and knowing all the QB's coming out next year, being the OC to lead the Lions to playoff wins will get him any job he wants. I'd bet money right now that Johnson is the HC of one of 3 QB's next season, Williams, Maye, Herbert. But basically no matter how much we turn it around after the bye, there's no scenario where we're looked at like the Lions were at the end of last year, he's not coming back here for a 2nd season if he gets a HC offer elsewhere.

Has there ever been a time in NFL history that a team fired his HC to hire one of his coordinators to replace him? I doubt it, because it would make no sense even if you knew the coordinator was destined to be a better coach, just like with McDermott and Rivera. Also, it seems like the only thing that is changing is play calling, I'm sure game prep will still be all the same between Reich and Brown, I don't think you make a HC change solely on play calling. And finally, at this point, Bryce will need to be playing at a literal All Pro level the rest of this season fro Brown to sniff any HC jobs. Looking at the last 3 offseason's of HC changes, the worst record for the team the new HC came from (excluding non previous HC's) to get an HC job was 9-8. I don't care how much teams might like his potential, nobody is hiring the OC of a 4-13 or worse team to be their new HC. There'd be a better chance of another team stealing him to be their OC than someone hiring him as an HC, short of us going like 7-4 down the stretch with the offense putting up video game numbers.

He wasn't gambling on ending up with another Top 2 pick, he was gambling on Fields being an elite QB if you gave him some help, like Moore and the OT that they drafted with our pick. He's likely going to lose that gamble, but in the end, he'll end up as the big winner, especially if they miraculously end up with one of the QBs and Harrison. Williams/Maye with Moore, Harrison, Kmet would be potentially nasty offense for years to come.

The difference is that if you combined this year's QB draft class with next years, not a single analyst would put Bryce or Stroud above either Williams or Maye. The question marks around the QBs in this year's draft are the only reason keeping Fields and trading the pick was even an option, in any year there was an unquestioned #1 prospect with elite potential, the Bears take the QB and trade Fields.

lol is this a real question? They’d take a QB, re-set the clock on the rookie contract and trade Bryce for whatever we could get, would be the biggest no brainer decision of all time.

While not untrue and yes the rest of our weapons are garbage, I also don't think it's fair to say Thielen is being force fed passes. WRs who get force fed passes are constantly being thrown contested balls into tight coverage. The majority of Thielen's catches are wide open with no defender directly on him with a chance to break up the pass. And that's 100% on Thielen's route running ability, he's crafty and knows how to find the open space in the defense. It's why he was my #1 wanted FA once we made the trade for the pick, particularly if it was going to be Bryce. I think Bryce's mental side of the game and Thielen's veteran savvy and knowledge of the game is a perfect fit. I'm sure he's not always running the intended route, but running into open space near his route and Bryce is smart enough to know what he's going to do and is ready for it.

In all the hate on here today, I thought it was only right that we need to recognize the one player on our team who is playing like a legitimate star right now, none other than Mr Adam Thielen T-3rd in receptions 9th in yards T-4th in TDs 3rd in 1st Downs He's not an outside #1 anymore at this point in his career, but he's such a savvy vet and great route runner that he's constantly getting open and essentially forcing Bryce to keep throwing him the ball with how often he's getting open for him. It's another reason we so badly need a true outside #1 though, as Thielen's targets wouldn't go down that much with how often he gets open, so adding a #1 could help unlock the offense and in turn, hopefully Bryce. If he can stay healthy, with his route running, there is no reason he can't be a successful slot in this league for another 3-5 years. He's could very well be the type of guy who plays like Larry Fitzgerald, into his late 30's and at the end of his career just be a solid 3rd down safety valve for the QB because he just knows how to get open on short yard routes. That's why they gave him the contract they did, it's because they saw this out of him and knew he would be a perfect fit for a QB like Bryce.

I remember where people were afraid we were going to lose both our coordinators to HC jobs after the first season and then not be able to get the two 3rd's for them that you get if they're a coach there for at least 2 years. That one seems pretty safe right now, nobody is hiring the coordinators from a team this bad as their HC, the GM would get run out of town by a torch carrying mob.

I'd be curious to see the advanced pass rush analytics on him from this game, but I have no idea where to find that stuff. Definitely saw him affect Tua on multiple plays, sometimes you just don't get home, especially against the best offense in football right now. Having said that, he's unfortunately for himself proven he's not deserving of Bosa money like he wanted, which if anything I think makes it more likely a team will give up good assets to get him, they think they'll be able to sign him for less than he originally wanted. He's still an elite pass rusher, but like everything else with this team, I'm sure we're not using him correctly and putting him on a team with better players, particularly at DB, it will unlock him and he'll go nuts.