tukafan21

LOL this is literally the most delusional post I've ever seen on a sports message board before. There are only 4 QB's in the NFL that you'd trade Bryce Young for right now?!?!?!?! Literally batshit crazy right there, absolutely utterly insane. Hell, I'm even on record as saying I don't think Daniels will be a starting QB 5 years from now because of his style of play and I think he's going to get hurt, so I'd accept you not trading for him on that thought, but if you remove the injury concern, there is no possible reason for sticking with Bryce over him, none at all. Even if you wanted to pick a few of those QB's you wouldn't trade him for, I'd accept that as an acceptable response, even if one I'd disagree with. But if you called up any of the teams of the other QB's you listed as maybes or too early to tell and offered them a swap, they wouldn't even bother laughing at you before hanging up the phone. Herbert just had 3,900 yards on 66% completion with 23 TDs, 3 INTs, another 300 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... but you wouldn't trade Bryce freaking Young for him because he had a bad playoff game?!?!?! That alone is the most disqualifying statement possible for your judgement of players, just crazy. And that's just touching on the other players, but then you say Bryce has looked "decent" over the last 10 games, which in itself, is more exaggeration based on his previous play than an accurate statement in a vacuum. Over those 10 games he had 3 games over 225 yards passing and not a single game of 300, with only 3 games over 62% completion as well. It's not like he was lighting it up, he was just playing serviceable game management QB play until the final game of the season. If you want to talk about the hope of building on that, I can't fault you. But if you want to use those 10 games to say you wouldn't trade him for anyone but FOUR other QB's in the league right now and you're just fooling yourself.

Who of these guys are you taking Bryce over (as players only, contracts don't matter for the discussion since it's just who is better than the other)? Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Love, Daniels, Purdy, Murray, Dak, Maye, Nix, Lawrence, Baker, Tua, Stroud, and Caleb? As that's 19 QB's right there and there is no chance I'm taking Bryce over any of them over the next 5 seasons. Then factor in the older guys who are still better than Bryce right now like Stafford, Geno, Wilson. Add in the younger unproven guys who very well still might be better like Penix or McCarthy, and you might be able to even add Darnold to that list. Or even Richardson who while he's struggled, his physical abilities still give him a higher potential ceiling if he figures it out. Now add in any rookies who will come in over the next 2-3 years (I'd take Arch over Bryce right now at a minimum). Are you really going to say you think he has the potential to be a Top 20 QB over the next 5 years when you look at that list? I just don't see how he's going to be better than those guys (health aside of course as it's always an unknown). And this isn't me saying I think all these guys are elite SB caliber QB's, because a lot of them clearly aren't, they're just better than Bryce, and that's my point in all of this. I just don't see Bryce as ever being THAT kinda guy.

I still think Horn can be an all pro caliber CB if he stays healthy, but yea, I'm doing that trade without a second thought

I've never once claimed T-Mac is already a Top 5 WR, what I've said is that he's going to be considered that by the time he's ready for his 2nd contract. And yea, I think they are pretty black and white because what I think is keeping him from even having a chance at being an elite QB is the same thing I said my problem with him before we ever drafted him, his physical limitations will always limit what his upside can be. Which his rookie year, no matter how bad the situation was, does nothing to change his physical issues at this level.

He was 20th with the only QB’s ahead of him who aren’t likely still starters 5 years from now being Stafford, Jameis, and maybe Darnold. Behind him was Dak’s injury shortened season, Caleb’s rookie year, and Stroud’s down sophomore season, all of whom I’d easily take over Bryce (Dak’s contract aside). It also doesn’t include Penix or McCarthy, not to mention any other QB’s to enter the league in the next couple of years. If you want to count that as Bryce being a top 20 QB, so be it, but he’s not going to be one over the next 5 year time period.

Nah, Allen has made his money and fell off a cliff this year, I think he chases a ring and takes a cheap deal to go to a contender than try to make a little more money being a #1 for a bad team like us. But I could see us doing it with someone like Amari Cooper who is 3 years younger and might want one last pay day.

I'm not sure there are any actual Panthers fans that WANT Bryce to fail or not play well. I'm as anti-Bryce as they come on this board, and I don't want him to fail. I just have no faith in him ever being able to be the type of QB who is going to raise the level of play from his teammates and drag them to wins and SB contention. And because of that, as long as he's our starting QB, our ceiling as a team will always be limited. Yes, I'll admit that this season he changed my mind from saying he should already be out of the league to thinking he actually could be a below average game manager starting QB in this league. But outside of Week 18, this turnaround from him still had him putting up well below average stats, it was just better than it was before, but it was nowhere near great. So no, I just don't think he can ever be even a Top 20 QB in this league, who can be the reason you win games on a consistent basis. Saying that doesn't mean I want him to fail, it's just calling it like I see it. Do I hope I'm wrong and he turns into the next Drew Brees? Of course, but to say I think it will happen would just be lying.

Just because it was a priority last season, doesn't mean the job is finished, especially when Bryce realistically has one season to prove he can be the guy or if we have to replace him. "Winning games while we have Bryce on a rookie deal" is pretty much meaningless right now as no matter what we do this offseason, we're not fixing all of our holes and being able to contend this year anyways. So again, I go back to the #1 goal of the 2025 season, find out if Bryce is our long term QB solution or not. Best way to do that, is you get him a #1 WR and then it's on him to sink or swim as you have a fully built offense at his disposal. And that's something we just don't have for him with a WR room of XL, Thielen, and Coker. And again, nobody is saying there is only one priority. Nobody is saying "we need a WR, screw everything else" I think it's just their way of saying they know finding out what Bryce can be is more important than fixing the defense, as it should be. Any team's #1 goal should always be to figure out their long term QB solution, if you have it you can have a different #1 goal, but if you don't, that's it.

And I still think all the Wilson talk is moot anyways. He hates Rodgers, I don't think Rodgers is going to be back with the Jets, hence I don't think Wilson asks for or is traded.

Yea, spend it on the defense on proven commodities in free agency. Trading away 8 and using cap for that same offensive asset is only going to compound our defensive issues. I'd rather take the chance on an unproven commodity in Burden and be able to add other draft assets and use all our cap on the defense, than get Wilson and lesser defensive pieces. I love the idea of Wilson, I just hate the thought of 8 or any future 1st being involved in getting him as we're not a WR away from contending.

The problem with that is you then have to give him the deal this offseason, which will require using some of our cap room, which then hurts the defense even more as that's where we should be spending it. Trade 8 back to the 12-15ish range, maybe get to pick up a 1st next year if someone is desperate, if not maybe say a 2nd this year and a couple 3/4's or a future 2nd feels about right to do that move. Then you draft Burden and use the extra 2nd on another defensive player, all while not using up additional cap on Wilson's extension and that now going to the defense as well. Rookie contracts are so important for rebuilding teams, so trading 1sts for vets is generally not the best idea for teams in our position, it's for contenders looking for the final piece to a SB puzzle. Also, I think the Jets are going to want additional picks to a 1st in a trade for Wilson, not adding good picks back in themselves.

I think people are reading into it wrong, especially the Bryce believers. Because in reality it's not "our #1 priority this offseason is to get a WR" as much as it's "our #1 priority this offseason is to make sure Bryce succeeds" Which realistically should 100% be the priority over the defense. We're at a fork in the road right now, if you're going the way that says Bryce is the QB of this team for the future, making sure he develops is WAAAYYYY more important than the defense this offseason. As if Bryce doesn't build on this year, he's gone, 2025 will be his last year as the Panthers QB, no doubt about it. So, which is it? Our #1 priority this offseason is improving the defense or building up Bryce? I'm an openly avid anti-Bryce guy, but even I know the answer to that is building him up. If you're going that route with him, you gotta try and support him at all (reasonable) costs for this next season. And if he then bombs, you have a ready built offense for the rookie or FA QB you bring in, we'd be the Falcons of last offseason, very attractive because of all the weapons.

Oh 100%, to not call would be not doing your job But there's no chance they're trading him for anything less than a 1st, possibly even more than just a single 1st. At that point is where you just have to say thanks but no thanks, we're just not in the position to be trading 1st round picks for players we have to then give a big contract to. I also don't know if they'll even trade him if they dump Rodgers, as that's the relationship that seems to have soured Wilson at the moment.

So first, you're not "giving away" picks to the offense when you're adding a guy who has legit Top 5 WR potential, you're adding a difference maker at one of the most important positions in today's game. Second, is that your first sentence is just flat out incorrect. We don't need highly drafted defensive players. We need impact players and difference makers on the defensive side of the ball. Those two things are not the same thing, it doesn't matter where you get them, whether it's in free agency or any round of the draft. Defensive rookies take longer to make an impact in this league on average than offensive ones. Even if we use the 1st pick on defense, with the cap room we'll have, that player should be at best, the 3rd or 4th most impactful new player on the defense next year when the season opens. We're not going to be SB contenders in 2025, this defense isn't going to be fixed in one offseason. If T-Mac is there and you have a player of his potential at a position that is so vital in today's NFL, I can't see how you pass on that to take a defensive player when there isn't anyone in this draft at that slot who is going to be an instant day 1 impact maker. A #1 WR is really the last piece of the puzzle we need on offense right now (if you're a Bryce believer), if you can get that in the 1st this year, you do and then use all other picks and cap room in 25 and 26 on the defense and we're ready to contend in 2026 (with Bryce or someone else).

Hence why I've been all in on the T-Mac train for over a year now, but doubt he falls to us at 8 unless he runs a slow 40, and maybe not even then. In general I'd be okay with it, but not for any of those players. First of all, Higgins, Godwin, and Allen are all FA's, so draft capital isn't in the equation. Beyond that, Higgins is going to want Top 5 money if he were to come here, Allen is well past his prime at this point, and Godwin is coming off another injury and is about to turn 29 so he just doesn't make sense either to give big money to. Tyreek would be a disaster of a situation here and he'd suck up most/all of our cap room to where we can't spend it on defense. I'd rather use the cap on Higgins than Tyreek, but I'm still not okay with that because we need to use the cap on defensive players who will make more of an impact for us next year than defensive draft picks could. Wilson would be the only player that would make sense to target, but I'm not giving up the 8th pick or our 1st rounder next year to then have to give him a huge deal, and I can't see the Jets trading him for anything less than a 1st. We'd be MUCH better off trading from 8 down to the 12-15 range and drafting Burden to have on a rookie deal and add other draft assets, than trading 8 for Wilson and then giving him a big new contract. DK Metcalf is the player I wanted to target in a trade last offseason, and while I'd still like that idea in a vacuum, him and XL don't make for a great pairing as they're too similar. So not sure I'd love giving up picks to give him a big contract and not be adding a different style WR to the team, even if he's obviously better than XL.

And that last play is exactly why I don't love Daniels long term NFL potential unless he drastically changes the way he plays/runs. He just takes WAY too big of hits, and too frequently, for a player of his build. He's not Cam, he's not Josh Allen, he needs to learn to be smarter when he runs or he'll just be another repeat of RG3 and be out of the league in a few years because he gets hurt and never fully comes back the same player.

Well there's no way of there being a package deal in the end though. The Raiders need to hire a HC well before there can be any possible trade of draft picks. There's literally no way to assure him the Raiders will trade up because it's dependent on other teams to play ball, no matter how much the Raiders want to do it. But if the Raiders were to hire Deion, it does all but guarantee a team will either make a trade with the Raiders, or if not, I don't see anyone wiling to draft Shedeur. Because if they do hire him, does anyone think Shedeur is even going to play ball with those other teams? No fuging chance... if they were to hire Deion, Shedeur would then not go to the combine, he wouldn't go on any team visits or interviews, he'd lock everyone else out and threaten a hold out and not sign if they were to draft him. In that scenario, no team is going to draft him in the end anyways and the Raiders wouldn't even need to trade up. Which if it were to happen, just seems like it would be some form of tampering with the draft by the Raiders to conspire with a prospect to make sure other teams don't draft them. Just would be a very odd situation all around that I'd think the league would love to avoid.

I still don't think Deion can coach in this league, his style of coaching works with kids, not grown men who are making 10's of millions of dollars a year. But this really would create a very weird situation if the Raiders were to hire him in the end. How does the NFL go about it if the Titans or Browns refuse to trade with the Raiders to move up to get Shedeur and then Shedeur tells every team he will refuse to sign with them if they draft him instead of letting him fall to daddy's team? Or do the Raiders not even try to trade up because of that? And if so, what can/should the league do about it when a team and player conspire together to force teams to not draft someone? If I'm the other teams at the top of the draft, I'm just passing on Shedeur and letting him fail with the Raiders anyways, as I don't think he's going to be a good NFL QB to begin with. But it really would create a very weird situation that is going to end up being ugly no matter how it plays out. Also all of it doesn't even begin to touch on how stupid it would be for the Raiders to do it anyways. Because what happens if Deion sucks as a coach but Shedeur turns out to be great? Or what happens if Deion is a great coach but Shedeur is a clear bust of a draft pick? You're stuck with Deion because you can't fire him and then expect Shedeur to not demand a trade. Or you're stuck with a crap QB because you can't cut him or your HC will quit on you. Part of me wants to see it happen just for the disaster scenarios to play out and sit back with my popcorn to watch.

For hunting animals that people regularly hunt and eat? I'm not going to say I'd ever want to try to eat Raccoon or Squirrel, but it's not different than someone posting/talking about hunting deer or other animals that it's "normal" to hunt and eat. My bigger fear with it is that he's going to get some weird disease as some of these animals have to carry some diseases I'd imagine.

I might be a Panthers fan because of Biakabutuka, but if we end up getting T-Mac, might have to change my name to TMacFan4 lol

I can't tell if this means the Browns are going to draft a QB #2 now, or if they're going to use this as a chance to just blow it all up and trade the pick to the Giants or Raiders. Can see both sides of it, this is their chance to get a new QB, or they realize they're going to be in cap hell for a couple years because of the dead hits from Watson and just go full on re-build mode for a year or two and hope for the #1 pick next year in a better QB draft.

To me it more means Glenn knows he's getting a different job already, like New Orleans.

Realistically I think this only could apply to 2 teams, possibly a 3rd There were questions if the Dolphins would move on from McDaniel, so I could see them interested. People have long wondered what an early playoff loss would mean for Siriani, so maybe Philly would want to. And a very outside chance I could see Shanahan want to work with Caleb and the 49ers look for a deal. Can't see the Bears interested in any other HC right now that the team would be willing to talk about a trade.

Strongly disagree... I think he's taking the smartest approach any HC candidate has taken in a LONG time, maybe ever. He's still only 38 years old and only been an OC for 3 years. He knows how this league is, no matter how great of a football mind you have, most coaches only get one shot at being a HC, and if it doesn't go well, they likely capped their future career opportunities as coordinators. He is in an OUTSTANDING situation for a coach in his situation. Because as someone else said, Campbell isn't really an X's and O's coach, he's a rah rah type of coach who depends a lot on his coordinators. So Johnson gets to learn how to be a leader of a football team from one of the best in the league, which for a 38 year old coach, is almost impossible to quantify how important that is for him. While also having a truly elite offense to work with as they have everything, one of the best OL's, one of the best WRs, and maybe the best RB room in the entire league. In league circles, I'm sure Johnson gets more credit for the Lions actual play than Campbell does, especially this year with their defense being so bad because of injuries and being carried by an elite offense that Campbell has little to do with. So he's doing nothing but increasing his stock throughout the league by staying there and turning the Lions of all franchises into an offensive juggernaut and a true SB contender. Teams aren't going to stop wanting to hire him and he's only 38, there's no reason for him to take just any job offered to him as opposed to waiting for the one he thinks is the perfect fit for him. I still think he would be the Chargers HC right now if Harbaugh didn't decide to go back to the NFL, and when he didn't get that last year, he was fine waiting again for the right opportunity to arise.

Don't believe me all you want, but he will be.