tukafan21

I don't think people are saying we're 1 player away from being a contender. I do though think it's a very legitimate statement to say, "we're 1 player away from this team looking like they're moving in the right direction and have a chance to get into contention in the next few years" As I don't think we're 1 player away from contention, not even close, still need holes to fill (or young players to get better in the coming years) on defense before we can ever enter that conversation. But if we had a legitimate QB who could be our long term solution, I think we'd be passing the eye test of a team on the rise, not looking like we do now, and that's of a middling team who is squeaking by wins against some of the worst teams in the league.

This is the only correct answer when you have two RBs who are so similar. Realistically splitting RB carries only works when they're different enough that the swapping of them changes what the defense wants to do against them. Rico and Chuba are just too similar, neither are the quick twitch make you miss and run away from them type of RB. So when we sub them for each other, the defense doesn't need to make any personnel or scheme adjustments.

Sure, all fair points that can't be argued against. But not a single one of them changes his arm strength problem. And pointing to a Heisman trophy winner being able to throw the ball a max of 60 air yards in college, isn't exactly helping your case about him having average arm strength. He was college great and had college adequate arm strength, but that doesn't cut it in the NFL, not by a long shot.

But that's not what we're talking about, nor what you said earlier. You said he "has an average to below average arm strength" which in itself is an extremely disingenuous argument to make for a starting QB if in your head, you're comparing him to all draft eligible QB's (which even then, I'm still not sure it would be accurate anyways, but that's beyond the point). We're not talking about whether or not Bryce is good enough (or if just his arm is good enough) to be a backup or practice squad QB. We're discussing the merits of him being our starting QB of the future, so by nature, comparing him to anything other than the other starting QB's is just asinine. I'd bet my life savings, that if you ranked every QB over the last 5 years to attempt to make an NFL roster, Bryce would not crack the 80th percentile of arm strength, and that still might be generous of me to say he could be that high up the list. You keep pointing to him throwing the ball 50-60 yards in college. Well I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure there is any starting QB in college who can't throw the ball that far when they have perfect balance and can step into a throw, that's basically the bare minimum requirement at that level. And I'm not saying this to say Bryce is the worst QB in the history of the game of football. He does have certain things that he does well, and I do think he'd be a more than serviceable backup and the type of guy who can bounce around year to year as a gap year starter at times. But objectively, he has one of the weakest arms of any starting QB in recent memory, that's not really debatable.

Also hard to throw INTs when most of your incompletions end up landing in the dirt before even reaching the WR or DB

And Joe Milton would be an MVP candidate this year, not the Cowboys backup QB. The argument is pretty simple, does Bryce have a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league. And the answer is even simpler... No. Anything else doesn't matter, he's just flat out proven that he can't make the minimum required throws at a high enough level to be even an average starting QB, let alone anything better than that.

And poo... now that I think about it, you're trying to say he has "average or slightly below average arm strength" but saying that in comparison to the what, 90ish QB's currently on a roster or practice squad right now? So your argument FOR our QB is that he has about the 45-60ish strongest arm in the NFL and you think that's a winning argument in support of Bryce? And actually, you're really comparing him to draft profiles, which by your definition would then also include all the guys who can't make rosters or even practice squads. So really, you're saying because he has an average to below average arm strength of all the players who tried to make it in the NFL in recent memory, he has a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league. again, I have to say it, JFC

He's 10th in the league in pass attempts. How we're running has absolutely zero bearing on him having the 10th most pass attempts in the league but being literally last in the NFL in passing yards (among QB's who have started all 7 weeks). If this was Delhomme era Panthers, where we were also one of the lowest ranked teams in passes attempted, you'd have a legitimate case there, but that's the furthest thing from the case here.

If there were handfuls of backup QB's who were good enough to be starters in this league, then you'd have an argument on your hands. But when there are current starting QB's who aren't even good enough to actually be starting QB's in this league, you can't then compare a supposed to be franchise QB to those back-ups. QB is the most unique position in all of sports, by a very very wide margin. Trying to compare your starting QB to the backups as a selling point for said starting QB is such a crazy notion that it hurts my brain to think how anyone could honestly think that's the case. It basically would be like comparing a MLB player to the "average professional baseball player" and looking at all minor leaguers in that as well. Saying Bryce has an "average arm" when he's literally likely ranked 32nd out of the 32 starting QB's in arm strength is ceratinly some hill to die on.

And Bryce's 2nd and 3rd best passing yardage marks this year is 199 and 198 yards. Which in itself, is such a sad statistic. Take away his 328 yard game and he's averaging 160 yards per game this season. And for those who hate when you exclude specific games/things from stats, if you remove his high and low mark this season, he's still only averaging 168 yards per game. That's your #1 overall pick in his 3rd season ladies and gentleman. How is there actually people arguing that he can still be a good starting QB in this league, it's freaking nuts.

No, just flat out, no. I’m not even sure that’s accurate for any position in the NFL when you’re grading out 1st round prospects. But even more so when you’re evaluating a QB. If you think any team or evaluator is comparing QB’s you’re drafting to be a starter, to backups and 3rd stringers, then I honestly don’t even know how to respond to that. I’ve heard lots of crazy arguments on message boards, but that would take the cake, by a very wide margin. You’re literally comparing the skill sets of the most important position in all of the sporting world, to guys who can go a decade long career and never throw a meaningful pass in a game.

Of the regular starting QB's since 2000, there might be an argument to be made that Stafford and Rodgers were the two biggest arms in the league during that time. I'm sure there are others that belong in the conversation, and they might not actually be 1-2, but I don't think either would fall out of the Top 5 strongest arms during that time. (admittedly, this is also just a pure gut feel without trying to think back through all the starting QB's during that time frame, but I don't think it's all that off base either)

Even beyond Rodgers and Stafford being HOF level players, the two of them (and Flacco) always ranked near (or at) the top of the list for arm strength throughout their careers, they all had cannons. Dalton didn't have a noodle arm, but he never had an arm like those 3, so even if they've diminished over age, so did Dalton.

Oh, and to add to this... What makes this even crazier is that when you include all those backups, odds are, it still doesn't even give him an "average arm strength" in the NFL. As a lot of NFL backups actually have very strong arms, it's the rest of their game, such as mental side or accuracy, as to why they aren't a starter. It's their strong arm that keeps them on rosters as it makes them good practice squad QB's and then if the starter goes down, at least they have someone who can still sling the rock physically at an NFL level, even if their accuracy and decision making isn't up to par.

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league? Do you not realize how crazy that is to say? We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick. You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's. Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits. It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game. Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like. But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

And point being? I've never one time said he was a good QB or would help us win games, in fact, I've quite literally said he costs his teams games. But none of that means anything when I've lobbied for him solely due to his arm strength and his fearlessness in throwing any pass (which is also what makes him a bad actual QB), as those things will 100% help expedite the improvement of all of our pass catchers.

JFC To begin with, how far someone can throw the ball in college doesn’t equate to NFL arm strength. Beyond that, what you are REALLY trying to argue here is that he has an adequate arm strength to get by in the NFL. Which is an entirely different argument than “average arm strength” I still strongly disagree about him having adequate arm strength to succeed, he’s proven he can’t drive the ball anything further than 20 yards (AGAIN… do NOT respond to that by talking about how far he can throw it when perfectly balanced, they are two completely and separate things). The fact remains that you can’t name 10+ current NFL starters that he has a stronger arm than, which is what you’d need to do to say he has an “average or slightly below average arm strength” like you claim. There are a lot of actual debatable things in regards to Bryce, but his pure arm strength and where it ranks to the rest of starting QB’s just flat out isn’t one of them, at all, period.

Do you know what "average" means? It means that among the 32 starting QB's, you're saying he is somewhere around the 16th strongest arm. Do you not realize how bat poo crazy that is? Please, tell me even 5 starting QB's who have a weaker arm than he does? And I'm not talking about having perfect balance and able to perfectly step into a throw where you're chucking it as far downfield as possible. I'm talking about throwing ropes on a line 30 yards downfield. There is no world where he is remotely close to "average" in comparison to the rest of the starting QB's in this league. Just because he was able to throw the ball 60 yards in the air in college, when perfectly balanced, doesn't mean he has an "average NFL arm", that's literal crazy talk. If a non-biased party were to rank the starting QB's solely on arm strength, from 1-32, there is no chance he is anything higher on the list than maybe 27 or 28, and I honestly think he has a better shot at being #32 than even #28, hell, change 28 to 30 and I still think it's an accurate statement.

Canales doesn't have us at 4-3, I sincerely think we're 4-3 in spite of the job Canales has done so far. We're 4-3 because we've played the 2 worst teams in the NFL, the worst defense in the NFL while they were missing their best offensive player, and an epically embarrassing performance by the Falcons. You could make an argument that with better coaching, we should actually be 6-1 right now and I don't think that would be hard to justify.

You're right, his stats somehow are even better than how he actually looks when watching the games, which is remarkable given how poor his stats are. That's the thing, we're 7 games into T-Mac's career and even though people see some things he needs to improve upon, he's had numerous plays already in just 7 games where you can look at him and say, "this kid has star potential" Bryce was the #1 overall pick who 2.5 years into his career, has what, MAYBE 5 plays that make you say "he could be an average to above average QB in this league" Most QB's have that in the first month of their rookie season, he just flat out doesn't pass the ye test even before you dig into his paltry stats. Dart already has more plays in his 3 starts that make you think he has franchise QB potential than Bryce has in his entire career.

Bryce hasn't done a single thing to prove he deserves to have his option picked up. I'd have less of an issue with us declining the option and bringing him back as the starter next year than I would have us picking up that option, as that means he's on our cap books for the next 2 years instead of 1, even if he's cut before year 5. Tua threw for 3,500 yards with a 25-8 TD-INT ratio in just 13 starts the year before they picked up his option, and then threw for over 4,600 yards before they gave him his extension. Kyler threw for 3,722, 3,971, and 3,787 in 16, 16, and 14 games (while rushing for 544, 819, and 423 in those seasons) before they picked up his option and then signed him to an extension before year 4. Jones threw for 3,200 yards with a 3-1 TD-INT ratio with another 700 yards and 7 TDs rushing in year 4 before they signed him to his extension. Bryce has thrown for 2,877 and 2,400 yards in 16 and 12 starts his two seasons, while being on pace for 3,128 yards in a 17 game season so far this year. The closest comparison to any of them was Jones, who while he's turned it around this year, is someone I think everyone can agree was not a player who deserved that extension after that season. If people think those other QB's having their options picked up and/or given extensions were a mistake, in what world can you look at what Bryce has done and make any rational argument for him even being brought back as our starter next year, let alone also picking up his option that would cost us about $27 million fully guaranteed.

Bryce isn't an NFL QB, period. XL, Coker, and Sanders will have gone 2 years without getting NFL level passes thrown their way in games. T-Mac, Horn Jr, and Evans will have gone their rookie seasons without getting NFL level passes. If you don't think that stunts their growth, then I'm not sure what else to say, becuase it just does. They're going full season(s) of their career without the opportunity to catch the type of passes they're going to be expected to catch the rest of their careers when we get a real life NFL QB back there for them. I think there is a real argument to make that as good as Moore has been, he still hasn't reached his potential due to his QB play.

Well first things first, the 5th year option isn't something that "may" get decided this offseason, it WILL get decided this offseason because it has to, this is when they have to pick it up or not. It's how you get into a Daniel Jones situation, where you decline the option, then he stumbles into a decent season so you extend him, just for him to revert back to his old form right away. Bryce getting another year is far less certain than you seem to think, namely because of that 5th year option decision this offseason. We traded the farm for the pick and then took Bryce #1 overall. If you don't pick up the option, it's a hard sell for the players and fan base to bring him back as the starter next year. And because of the trade and taking him #1 overall, it's equally as hard to bring in a true competition for him in camp, because if he loses, you can't keep your #1 overall pick around as a backup. The problem is this injury now gives them the cover to make some dumb decisions

He's a backup because he constantly loses games for his teams with his turnovers. I don't want him for what he can do and a QB, I want him because of what he can do for our WRs and TEs. Bryce started 12 games last year and had 2,400 yards passing with 15 TDs. Jameis started 7 games last year and had 2,120 yards passing with 13 TDs. Bryce has started 7 games this year and has 1,288 yards passing with 11 TDs. If you don't see what Jameis, even with all his faults, can bring to this team because of his very live arm, then you're fooling yourself or just don't want to see it.

Most backup players you didn't draft in the first round and/or are expecting them to be your long term starters. You need in game reps to grow your game and these guys aren't getting NFL level in game reps with Bryce at QB, I don't know how anyone can honestly think we aren't stunting their growth so far. And yes, I agree some of XL's issues are things he needs to work out on his own to improve his catching and mental side of the game, but he still needs a real life NFL QB throwing him the ball or he'll never improve, no matter what he does on his own.