tukafan21

The same people bashing me in this thread today will be the same ones who are complaining in April when we miss out on X, Y, or Z players they wanted at the top of the draft because we're picking 7th instead of 3rd. Then they'll be the same ones complaining that we're a 8-9 team 3 years from now and still not contending

At no point in Kuechly's career did we ever have a jersey with sewn on Panthers logos on the sleeve, they were ALWAYS the screen pressed logos, that alone is a dead giveaway that it's not an official jersey. Not to mention the different captains logo patches, they've never changed those, yet they're not the same on each jersey

Oh, and you're right, all the takes in this thread are now on the record and I'll be bookmarking the thread to bring it back up in the future... I'm not shying away from my take because of backlash, because I know this isn't how you re-build an NFL franchise, it's how you get stuck in NFL purgatory forever. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. We've never embraced sucking to do a complete re-build, we only keep trying to patch over mistakes with temporary fixes and it hasn't worked for the last decade. But sure, let's keep trying that because we're just sick of not being the team we want to be

You think we're in the playoff hunt because we'd be 1-2 and beat a team who will also be picking in the Top 10, if not Top 5, next season? How much do you want to bet that we won't even sniff the playoff hunt this season? Because name your price, I'm in.

I don't want to use the top pick next year for a QB, I want to use it to trade back to take a non-QB, build up more draft assets, and continue to stockpile good players/picks that will pay off a few years down the line. Look at what the Lions and Texans have done in the last 3-5 years, THAT's how you go about building a contending team when you have a roster like we currently have, not trying to patch over the problem areas every season.

WHAT?!?!?! I'm sorry, but I'm still stuck on your first sentence, as it's literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said We went out and wong meaningless games, put us as the 9th pick in the draft and then made a stupid trade giving up great assets, just to take the wrong QB anyways. How can you "suck to build assets" when you didn't get that top draft asset due to said sucking, and then traded away your other high draft picks (plus a Top 20 WR) to get the draft pick. What you're describing is the opposite of what I'm saying. Take your lumps for a few years and build a team around your own Top Five 1st and 2nd round draft picks for a few seasons. Not trade away your future to get the top draft pick in a bad QB class and then take a middle school sized QB

If he walks in FA, odds are he won't be a 3rd round comp pick type of signing for someone else, he'd be a 4th or 5th rounder I absolutely think a contending team would give up a 3rd or 4th rounder if they think he could put them over the top. So even if it was a 4th rounder that falls in the late 20's, that's still better than a 4th round comp pick. I also would be shocked if Tepper allows us to not make a splash FA signing in the offseason after how this season goes, which in turn would then negate getting a comp pick for him signing elsewhere.

This is my point though, we haven't played for draft picks since 2010 and we just tossed Clausen out there to the wolves. Ever since then we've always tried to win meaningless games instead of playing for the draft picks, and it hasn't worked. In Cam's prime I was okay with it, having a QB like that changes the equation. But when you don't have that QB and you have such a dearth of talent as we do now, you need to play for the draft picks a bit and it's just not something we've actually ever done in earnest, hence why we haven't had a Top 5 draft pick since 2011 (not counting the one we had to make a stupid trade to get or the one we didn't have ourselves because of said stupid trade).

Why do you think everything is so personal when it comes to opinions on players? None of this has a single thing to do with you or T-Mac. If Hunter came out and said he was going to focus on being a CB only, then yes, I'd say he has Top 5 draft pick type of talent. If Hunter came out and said he was going to focus on being a WR only, then no, I wouldn't say he has Top 5 draft pick talent on that side of the ball, but he would still be a 1st round WR on my board. That's not an insult to him, that's still praising his ability, but it's not just blinding saying he's going to be an elite player in the NFL because of what he's able to do at the college level. I've also said this to you multiple times, I've clearly said that he could be an absolute elite CB in the league, but just a very good WR, not a true elite Top 5-10 type of guy. And that if he tries to do both in the NFL, he's just going to end up as a bust overall as he'll end up never being able to reach his potential because of it. That's not hating the player, it's looking at his game and how it translates to the NFL, it's called having objective opinions.

Yes.

You're the same person who said we were going to be SB contenders last season after we drafted Bryce So I apologize if I don't bend the knee to your college talent evaluations.

So if I bookmark this thread and bring it back up in 5 years, when we haven't had a winning season and still don't have a franchise QB... would I still be an idiot? Because if I said the same stuff 5 years ago, people would have said the same thing then, but look at us now.

Because I think winning games like this only hurts the franchise in the long run. I don't want to be happy 5-7 times a season when we are able to be competitive, that's not being happy, that's tricking yourself that not getting blown out is enjoyable. You know what's enjoyable? Making the playoffs, going into a season with realistic expectations of being a contender, you know, the things good football teams are able to enjoy. Not being competitive once a month, that's a loser mentality. I can suffer through the pain for long term gains, but we just can't even do that right either

At this rate, I'd genuinely be surprised if we have a winning record season before 2030

So because you don't trust the front office to find quality players, you'd rather be a slightly below average team in the NFL every season just so you aren't completely miserable every Sunday? I honestly can't wrap my head around that thinking, it's asinine to me

Literally has nothing to do with T-Mac... tell me right now that he goes #1 overall and we have #2, I still would be FURIOUS if we took either Hunter or Sanders Hunter is NOT a generational NFL player, he's a generational NCAA player, there is a difference as it's an entirely different game. He's the current version of Reggie Bush, someone who very well could win the Heisman and ride it into being a contender for the #1 pick of the draft, but will never actually perform in the NFL to that hype and expectations. He's Charles Woodson but not as good of a CB and a better WR You keep saying he could focus on one position and be an all pro, but he's openly saying he isn't going to do that. If that doesn't scream that he's not serious about being a potential elite NFL player, then I don't know what to say.

And the same people who say that now will be the same ones complaining 5 years from now that we still can't find a franchise QB, have no All Pro caliber players, and can't see any way we contend in the near future... you know, the same place we were about 5 years ago

you're right, it guarantees nothing, but you know what going 5-12 or 6-11 does every season? It guarantees that you're never going to have a contending team. You become the Dalton era Bengals at best, and even then, you still have to get lucky on hitting on a non 1st round QB and a solid but not great coaching staff. I'd rather suck and go for hoping to hit with our high draft picks for a few seasons than get stuck in NFL purgatory because I can look at the big picture and it doesn't make losing hurt anymore.

Again... we've tried that for the past decade since the SB season, it hasn't worked out in that entire time That's what is so frustrating for the people advocating for "building a winning culture" or "evaluating talent" as we've tried it, it doesn't work when you just flat out don't have players with elite potential. On our entire roster, DB and Horn are the only 2 players right now with legit elite potential. Legette has very good potential, but he's never going to be a Top 10 WR in this league (which is okay, not every player has to be Top 10 at their position). If you don't luck into finding absolute studs with mid round picks or build a nice base of star players with a bunch of Top 5 picks in successive years, you're never going to have a SB contending team.

When you already have a HOF QB and MLB on your roster, yes, you can try to build that winning culture by winning meaningless games. But when you don't even have a Pro Bowl player on your roster, it's an entirely different story Literally apples and oranges

Really? It feels great knowing we're still going to end up going 5-12 with a QB who isn't our future and we don't have a single potential future all pro on the roster besides our newly re-signed DT who is on IR for the season? You and I have very different feelings of "great"

And we're not proving that winning meaningless games every season by "trying to build a winning culture" doesn't work? We try that every year and it hasn't worked out, but the one time we get the #1 pick and make the wrong decision, everyone wants to say that's not a path to success. It's baffling to me how people can't realize we've been making this same mistake for the past decade and it hasn't worked yet, but they're convinced that this time is different.

We've tried to build that winning culture mid-season since 2016 and it hasn't worked, not even close, in fact, it's only set us further back as a franchise every single season since then. At what point are people going to learn that trying to build a winning culture with crap players who won't be around in 4 years isn't the way you build a winning franchise in today's NFL?!?!?!?!

We haven't had a culture of winning since 2015 and we haven't had a Top 5 pick since 2011 (outside of a stupid trade) So tell me how any of this is working? We keep repeating the same mistakes year after year and it's gotten us nowhere, until we decide to blow it all up and embrace being the worst team in the league for a couple of years, we will never have any chance of actually contending in the playoffs. And every season we keep trying this same crap, is just delaying any chance of having a winning franchise again.

I'd rather have the worst team in the league for a couple years if it means getting the talent necessary to be contenders than just have a watchable team in the moment. Cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't how you win Super Bowls, it's how you become stuck in NFL purgatory.