tukafan21

Again, Wilson was told that because he was short, dude is built like a dumb truck, he was built to take an NFL level beating, two completely different things here.

And how many of those sized CBs are missing a few games here or there due to being banged up? That's totally fine for position players to miss a few games, even elite skill position players it's okay. That's not okay for a franchise QB to miss 2-4 games a year due to being banged up.

jesus fuging christ, how hard is reading comprehension? I've literally said numerous times I don't give two shits about his height, it's about his frame and ability to hold up for a long career. I'll stop saying "sub 6 foot" QB's and start saying "sub 200 lbs" instead since people can't seem to figure out that people don't actually care about his height.

Again, is anyone actually that upset about the height aspect of it? Yes, I realize I just used "sub 6 foot QB's" in my previous post, but that's really just saying there haven't been good small QB's. If you want me to change it to "sub 200 lb QB's" I'd be more than happy to, as that's my real argument, but I don't think we're about to see a 6'3" 190 lbs QB either, that would just be absurd. Very few, if any, people are saying he won't be successful due to his height, we're saying he won't be successful because he's not built to withstand the NFL punishment over a long career.

It's not that there is a specific cut off, but the whole "show me the evidence that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter (or less successful) careers" is such a badly flawed argument when the evidence is right there in front of you. Name the best sub 6 foot QB's in NFL history When Kyler Murray very well could already be in the Top 5 of that list, it's not a good argument as to why he's a safe pick at #1. Particularly when you look at the guys on that list, they're short like Bryce, but they have completely different builds.

Show me one other 5'10" 190 lbs QB that has had a long career as a starting QB? I'll wait while you realize there hasn't been one. Not saying Young can't be the first, just that I don't think he's worth the risk when you have an equally as good prospect in Stroud available to us and we gave up everything we did to move up to #1.

There literally isn't a fair comparison, he'd be the smallest high level QB ever, and even the other small QB's he doesn't compare to, he's not the quick twitch athlete of a Kyler Murray and he's not thickly built like a Wilson. Thinking being a 5'10" 190 lbs QB doesn't put you at a higher risk of getting injured, is just the definition of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling at the top of your lungs so you don't have to hear the logical and sensical argument in front of your eyes.

Still completely missing the point The SEC measuring stick is about football skill, not staying healthy for what would be the smallest QB in NFL history. If people want to point to his success as a QB in the SEC, that's completely fair and valid, especially if you want to use it to counter anyone talking about his height. But when people point to him making it through the SEC healthy, that's where it completely falls apart. and THAT is my point here. To be a successful QB in the SEC, you play against all positions on defense, but to stay healthy, you have to be able to absorb hits by essentially 3 positions, DE, DT, and pass rushing LB's. I'd be very curious to know how many hits he took in the last 2 years by NFL level players, I'd bet it's less than 25 over the course of his career.

I really hate when people say things like, "well he didn't get hurt in the SEC where he's playing against NFL sized and caliber players every week" It's just nonsense that doesn't hold up to even the slightest digging into the facts. Last year the SEC had 65 players drafted, which was the most every by a single conference, but take even half a second to look at it a bit further. Half of those picks came from 3 teams, Georgia, LSU, and Alabama. 33 of the picks were then spread out across the rest of the conference. Then factor in that some of them were offensive players, without going through pick by pick, that means there was probably roughly somewhere between 12-20 defensive players drafted from the SEC last year outside of those 3 teams. And sure, factor in that some NFL caliber players obviously didn't go pro, but also some future NFL players would have still been young and not at that level yet anyways, so for the sake of argument, let's go with the high end of 20 there and then double that number to take into account players who didn't go pro. That would mean outside those top 3 teams, there was probably 40ish NFL caliber defensive players in the conference last year, which essentially breaks down to 3-4 NFL quality defensive players per team, of which, how many of them are actually pass rushers? The argument against Young has never been about height, it's always been about his frame and not how will it hold up on a game by game basis, but over the course of a 17 game season and hopefully a 10+ year career. So sure, he played a few games against teams loaded with NFL sized and quality players and he got through it, but getting through a few games without getting hurt isn't the issue. So when people use the argument of him getting thru the SEC for 2 years without getting hurt as the proof that his size shouldn't be a factor, it's just nonsense. I'd be very curious if someone were to go through the film of every hit he took to find out how many of them were by players of NFL size, speed, strength, etc. I'm guessing it's not that many, however still people want to use him getting through the SEC unscathed as the reasoning as to why he'll be able to hold up in the NFL. But in reality, in his full career at Alabama, he probably took less hits by NFL type of players than he'll take in the first half of his rookie season alone.

Oh, and people need to stop talking about Young's height, nobody cares about it, it's his frame, he's just not built to withstand the punishment an NFL QB takes.

Equal talents but one just isn't going to hold up in the NFL over the long haul, it's an easy decision for me, but unfortunately we're going to go the other way and have an oft-injured QB to deal with for a while.

I'm fully aware of what it is and how it tests processing ability and speed. But it's not playing football, I was never a fan of the Wonderlick being factored in for players either.

I like the Texans blue jersey's better than their white ones

The only thing dumber than the thought that these scores being leaked changing anything with teams is that teams, unfortunately including ourselves right now, might put any stock into these tests. Football isn't played in a classroom on a piece of paper with a pencil, I really couldn't care any less about these scores and am praying the reports of this test being the reason behind the shift from Stroud to Young aren't true. But the leaking of them is the most pointless thing ever, since teams know the scores and I don't think teams are making decisions based on what their fans think about player's scores on these tests, which is all the leaks affect, fan opinion.

Always assumed the Stroud stuff is coming from Indy, trying to make him fall to 4 so they don’t have to trade up. Never considered us, but if so, would be brilliant by the staff to get Houston to freak out and offer a ransom for #1, get 2, 12, and maybe more, get Stroud who we wanted the whole time and pair him with JSN as a kicker. Now back to reality where that doesn’t happen and we just have to pray Bryce can somehow stay healthy for a long career (spoiler alert, I don’t see it happening unfortunately).

Tough nuggets Corral We traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our #1 WR for our franchise QB. If he wants the number currently owned by our 2nd year QB3 who was on IR before the season started and he won’t give the #1 pick the number, even if he offers to buy it from him… the team just takes the number and gives it to Young.

Saw the pricing options today, guess I didn't realize the $250 for the season was if you also pay like 80 bucks a month for YouTube TV, which I don't and won't be doing. Still, $350 for the season is a great value for people who don't live close to their team and rarely get their team on TV locally. I'm in Michigan and unless we're playing the Lions or on a national broadcast game, I'm lucky to get any Panthers games on local TV here during the season. $350 is significantly less money than I'd spend at the bar each Sunday to watch us over the course of the season (and I'm over streaming that I did since the pandemic started, too unreliable and craps out in the second half often).

Yea, I know, another thread, but I don't think this is something I've seen discussed much on here and it's been rattling around in my head while I wait for the finale of The Mandalorian to drop here in a few minutes. I'm afraid Bryce will be the Marvin Lewis of QB's due to his size and it will put us in NFL purgatory for the next decade, which is SOOO much worse than just missing on a QB draft pick and needing to start over in 3-4 years with a new one. If he flops for being the top pick, it won't be because he's terrible, it will be because he can't stay healthy for full seasons, and likely is hurt later in the season as the wear and tear builds and would miss playoff games, such as Lamar the last few years. He'll be too good of a QB to just let walk in Free Agency, but his injury problems won't make him an attractive trade candidate either, and we'll be stuck with a QB who only is able to play 10-12 games a year. He'll be good enough in those games that we are Wild Card contenders each year, making it some, missing it in others, but maybe never being legit title contenders if he can't be fully healthy come January and leaving us pick in the early 20's each draft as well. That's basically what Marvin Lewis was to the Bengals as a coach, he was too good for them to fire, but not good enough when it mattered and they couldn't make playoff runs with him. It was a terrible situation for them to be in for a long time, and I'm convinced that will happen with Bryce and whatever team drafts him. Which is why I prefer Stroud, equally high upside, with I think a higher floor, but if he flops we'll know and be able to move on from him faster/easier than with the way Young will "flop" in my mind. I can't lie that I'm intrigued by Young's mental side of things, the thing that stood out to me the most was that they would give him 2 plays to call in the huddle and he'd make the play call at the line, that's an NFL thing, not in college, in college the players all look back to the sideline for the final call. But Stroud is too good of a prospect for me to take the risk on the above scenario, which I think is the most likely outcome for Bryce's career.

Again, not surprising, if I were him I'd also have cancelled other visits and also would be looking for homes in both Charlotte and Houston. He knows with 100% certainty that short of a Tunsil type of video coming out and screwing him over in the next week, he's going to one of those two teams. No reason to spend any more time flying around the country to meet with other teams and no reason to not get a head start on finding a home since he knows it will be one of two cities that he'll end up in.

They also have Stroud at +700 If they thought there was a legitimate chance at him being drafted 1st by us, I don' think his odds would be anywhere near that high, would still be in the +200ish range

I still want and very strongly think it should be Stroud or we'll look back on this in a few years as a terrible trade and draft pick. But seeing FanDuel sportsbook has Young at -1500 odds right now, that's hard to ignore, Vegas doesn't make lines like that unless they're very confident.

It's because the Young fans think Stroud supporters are only concerned about Young's height and think he's the 2nd coming to Drew Brees (even though he's 2 inches shorter and probably a good 25 lbs lighter). They disregard that Stroud supporters see and acknowledge that Young is a great prospect based on everything he does on the field, but they feel like his FRAME, let me repeat that, HIS FRAME, isn't big enough to last in this league for long, nothing to do with his height or even his weight specifically right now. He's just a very slim guy, not a wide base that could have weight easily put on without sacrificing his agility like Wilson had coming into the league. So most Stroud fans don't have issue with Young the player, but just are very concerned that he won't hold up in this league. Where as most Young fans put their head in the ground and thing Stroud is garbage who was only good because of the system and WRs around him. So it's much easier for the Stroud supporters to accept Young, because we don't have to convince ourselves that he's a good player, just have to shift to hoping he can stay healthy. That's much easier to do than the Young supporters who think Stroud is garbage and would have to cope with that if we picked him. I am 100% on the Stroud train, I don't see a big gap between them as prospects and I just absolutely don't think Young will be in the league 10 years from now, due to injury, not being bad at football. If we were the worst team in the league and got the #1 pick on our own, I'd be more accepting of drafting him, but with everything we gave up to get the pick, I think we need to go the more cautious route and go with Stroud, who I think is just as good as a prospect as a player as Young anyways. I'd also be able to live with taking Stroud and Young becoming a superstar much easier than if we took Young and he couldn't stay healthy, as of all thing things to predict about either QB's future (good or bad), that seems like the highest probability of anything happening with either.

Before the trade I’d have been totally on board with drafting BPA at 9 and go with Corral for the season. Either he looks great and could be our QB of the future, or he’d have been terrible and helped us land a top pick in a better QB draft without needing to trade up. But the trade was made, Dalton was signed to be the backup and mentor. If we get any decent offer for Corral it’s time to trade him now, will be hard for his value to go up unless he knows up in little pre-season action.

I mean, the guy knows for a fact that he's not falling past the Texans and he's already met with them, to me this really just means he doesn't feel like wasting his time on any more visits before the draft next week. I'll admit it's all starting to look like it will be Young, but I still prefer we go Stroud, think he has a higher floor and I don't like Young's frame to hold up long term. We just gotta win the SB in the next 3-5 years before as I don't think he'll hold up, but should be really good for as long as he is playing.

Not at all If we traded back to #2 before the draft, we could tell whoever we take that we knew for 100% who the Texans were taking and it wasn’t who we wanted, so we did it for the extra picks. Once you make the pick, to make the trade then, it tells who you took that they were your second option. Not how you want to start that relationship