tukafan21

Okay... and your point being? You're talking about comparing it to the AVERAGE weight of QB's, someone 5 lbs lighter than the average QB is still significantly larger than Bryce Young is. He'd be literally the smallest (lightest) QB in NFL history The players mentioned there as missing significant gams while being more than 5 lbs less than the average are 2 Gloves, Alex Smith, Tannehill, and Jackson... they are 215, 215, 217, and 212 lbs respectively, meaning they all still have about 20 lbs or more on Young's actual playing weight. That's anything but insignificant

No, I'm not saying smaller QB's have durability issues. I'm saying the guy who would be LITERALLY the smallest QB in NFL history will more than likely have injury issues and thus I don't think he's a smart pick over someone like Stroud. If it was between Young and Levis/AR it's a different discussion, but that's not the case here. There isn't a fair comparison for him in the history of the NFL He isn't thickly built like Wilson, he isn't a fast twitch athlete like Kyler to help him avoid big hits, he's built like a slot WR without the speed.

C'mon man, seriously? Young is already an inch smaller than Russ, you really going to tell me that these two players below have the same weight/frame despite Young being an inch shorter as well? That 204 combine weight by Young is a farce and everyone knows it Weight was never a concern for Wilson coming into the league, it was his height, so he didn't need to put on weight for a show weight at the combine. There is a reason Young didn't do any workouts at the combine, it's because he wasn't in peak physical shape due to the weight he artificially put on there. His combine weight is the equivalent of a UFC fighter who cuts weight for a weigh in and then steps into the cage 15-20 lbs heavier, it's just in reverse. Fighters couldn't cut all that weight and then step into the cage to fight right after the weigh in.

Nope, still not getting it. I'm not saying this is a reason against the SEC argument in general, I'm only saying it in regards to the people who say things like, "it's nonsense to say he can't stay healthy when he made it through 2 SEC seasons without serious injury" Two very different things

You're right, I said best sub 6 foot, but I also said right after, that I probably shouldn't state it like that, it's just an easier way to say "small QB" But part of it also is that if I were to say name the best sub 200 lbs QB in the NFL history, there isn't even an answer there because there hasn't been one. So the closest thing you could compare it to in that sense is height, and if you're asking for evidence as to why smaller QB's are more likely to be injured, you kinda have to go by height as there has never been a QB as small as he is before.

Comparing frame for an NFL player and NBA player is just nonsense. Yes the NBA is a physical sport, but it's nothing compared to the NFL. Also, if you want to save those receipts, it's not going to do you any good in 9 months. If you want to go back through my posts and find it, you can, cause I've said it numerous times in the past month. I think Young is a great prospect, but one who won't hold up for a long career, he'll mostly be fine for his first 2-3 years, but the hits are going to add up and he will start to break down. I think by year 5, he's no longer a viable NFL starting QB due to not being able to stay on the field for enough games a season to justify paying him a starting QB's salary.

Show me the evidence of successful sub 200 QB's, I'll wait too (well actually I won't wait, because there isn't any evidence to wait for, because it hasn't happened, ever, in the entire history of the NFL). We traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our #1 WR for this pick, why do people want to do that and then bet on someone being the first ever successful player at his size for the position? Wilson was a 3rd rounder, not the 1st overall pick after trading a haul to get the pick when there is an equally talented prospect also sitting there. It's called risk assessment, and Young is a far greater risk thank Stroud at #1 overall, even before factoring in what we gave up to get the pick.

Again, Wilson was told that because he was short, dude is built like a dumb truck, he was built to take an NFL level beating, two completely different things here.

And how many of those sized CBs are missing a few games here or there due to being banged up? That's totally fine for position players to miss a few games, even elite skill position players it's okay. That's not okay for a franchise QB to miss 2-4 games a year due to being banged up.

jesus fuging christ, how hard is reading comprehension? I've literally said numerous times I don't give two shits about his height, it's about his frame and ability to hold up for a long career. I'll stop saying "sub 6 foot" QB's and start saying "sub 200 lbs" instead since people can't seem to figure out that people don't actually care about his height.

Again, is anyone actually that upset about the height aspect of it? Yes, I realize I just used "sub 6 foot QB's" in my previous post, but that's really just saying there haven't been good small QB's. If you want me to change it to "sub 200 lb QB's" I'd be more than happy to, as that's my real argument, but I don't think we're about to see a 6'3" 190 lbs QB either, that would just be absurd. Very few, if any, people are saying he won't be successful due to his height, we're saying he won't be successful because he's not built to withstand the NFL punishment over a long career.

It's not that there is a specific cut off, but the whole "show me the evidence that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter (or less successful) careers" is such a badly flawed argument when the evidence is right there in front of you. Name the best sub 6 foot QB's in NFL history When Kyler Murray very well could already be in the Top 5 of that list, it's not a good argument as to why he's a safe pick at #1. Particularly when you look at the guys on that list, they're short like Bryce, but they have completely different builds.

Show me one other 5'10" 190 lbs QB that has had a long career as a starting QB? I'll wait while you realize there hasn't been one. Not saying Young can't be the first, just that I don't think he's worth the risk when you have an equally as good prospect in Stroud available to us and we gave up everything we did to move up to #1.

There literally isn't a fair comparison, he'd be the smallest high level QB ever, and even the other small QB's he doesn't compare to, he's not the quick twitch athlete of a Kyler Murray and he's not thickly built like a Wilson. Thinking being a 5'10" 190 lbs QB doesn't put you at a higher risk of getting injured, is just the definition of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling at the top of your lungs so you don't have to hear the logical and sensical argument in front of your eyes.

Still completely missing the point The SEC measuring stick is about football skill, not staying healthy for what would be the smallest QB in NFL history. If people want to point to his success as a QB in the SEC, that's completely fair and valid, especially if you want to use it to counter anyone talking about his height. But when people point to him making it through the SEC healthy, that's where it completely falls apart. and THAT is my point here. To be a successful QB in the SEC, you play against all positions on defense, but to stay healthy, you have to be able to absorb hits by essentially 3 positions, DE, DT, and pass rushing LB's. I'd be very curious to know how many hits he took in the last 2 years by NFL level players, I'd bet it's less than 25 over the course of his career.

I really hate when people say things like, "well he didn't get hurt in the SEC where he's playing against NFL sized and caliber players every week" It's just nonsense that doesn't hold up to even the slightest digging into the facts. Last year the SEC had 65 players drafted, which was the most every by a single conference, but take even half a second to look at it a bit further. Half of those picks came from 3 teams, Georgia, LSU, and Alabama. 33 of the picks were then spread out across the rest of the conference. Then factor in that some of them were offensive players, without going through pick by pick, that means there was probably roughly somewhere between 12-20 defensive players drafted from the SEC last year outside of those 3 teams. And sure, factor in that some NFL caliber players obviously didn't go pro, but also some future NFL players would have still been young and not at that level yet anyways, so for the sake of argument, let's go with the high end of 20 there and then double that number to take into account players who didn't go pro. That would mean outside those top 3 teams, there was probably 40ish NFL caliber defensive players in the conference last year, which essentially breaks down to 3-4 NFL quality defensive players per team, of which, how many of them are actually pass rushers? The argument against Young has never been about height, it's always been about his frame and not how will it hold up on a game by game basis, but over the course of a 17 game season and hopefully a 10+ year career. So sure, he played a few games against teams loaded with NFL sized and quality players and he got through it, but getting through a few games without getting hurt isn't the issue. So when people use the argument of him getting thru the SEC for 2 years without getting hurt as the proof that his size shouldn't be a factor, it's just nonsense. I'd be very curious if someone were to go through the film of every hit he took to find out how many of them were by players of NFL size, speed, strength, etc. I'm guessing it's not that many, however still people want to use him getting through the SEC unscathed as the reasoning as to why he'll be able to hold up in the NFL. But in reality, in his full career at Alabama, he probably took less hits by NFL type of players than he'll take in the first half of his rookie season alone.

Oh, and people need to stop talking about Young's height, nobody cares about it, it's his frame, he's just not built to withstand the punishment an NFL QB takes.

Equal talents but one just isn't going to hold up in the NFL over the long haul, it's an easy decision for me, but unfortunately we're going to go the other way and have an oft-injured QB to deal with for a while.

I'm fully aware of what it is and how it tests processing ability and speed. But it's not playing football, I was never a fan of the Wonderlick being factored in for players either.

I like the Texans blue jersey's better than their white ones

The only thing dumber than the thought that these scores being leaked changing anything with teams is that teams, unfortunately including ourselves right now, might put any stock into these tests. Football isn't played in a classroom on a piece of paper with a pencil, I really couldn't care any less about these scores and am praying the reports of this test being the reason behind the shift from Stroud to Young aren't true. But the leaking of them is the most pointless thing ever, since teams know the scores and I don't think teams are making decisions based on what their fans think about player's scores on these tests, which is all the leaks affect, fan opinion.

Always assumed the Stroud stuff is coming from Indy, trying to make him fall to 4 so they don’t have to trade up. Never considered us, but if so, would be brilliant by the staff to get Houston to freak out and offer a ransom for #1, get 2, 12, and maybe more, get Stroud who we wanted the whole time and pair him with JSN as a kicker. Now back to reality where that doesn’t happen and we just have to pray Bryce can somehow stay healthy for a long career (spoiler alert, I don’t see it happening unfortunately).

Tough nuggets Corral We traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our #1 WR for our franchise QB. If he wants the number currently owned by our 2nd year QB3 who was on IR before the season started and he won’t give the #1 pick the number, even if he offers to buy it from him… the team just takes the number and gives it to Young.

Saw the pricing options today, guess I didn't realize the $250 for the season was if you also pay like 80 bucks a month for YouTube TV, which I don't and won't be doing. Still, $350 for the season is a great value for people who don't live close to their team and rarely get their team on TV locally. I'm in Michigan and unless we're playing the Lions or on a national broadcast game, I'm lucky to get any Panthers games on local TV here during the season. $350 is significantly less money than I'd spend at the bar each Sunday to watch us over the course of the season (and I'm over streaming that I did since the pandemic started, too unreliable and craps out in the second half often).

Yea, I know, another thread, but I don't think this is something I've seen discussed much on here and it's been rattling around in my head while I wait for the finale of The Mandalorian to drop here in a few minutes. I'm afraid Bryce will be the Marvin Lewis of QB's due to his size and it will put us in NFL purgatory for the next decade, which is SOOO much worse than just missing on a QB draft pick and needing to start over in 3-4 years with a new one. If he flops for being the top pick, it won't be because he's terrible, it will be because he can't stay healthy for full seasons, and likely is hurt later in the season as the wear and tear builds and would miss playoff games, such as Lamar the last few years. He'll be too good of a QB to just let walk in Free Agency, but his injury problems won't make him an attractive trade candidate either, and we'll be stuck with a QB who only is able to play 10-12 games a year. He'll be good enough in those games that we are Wild Card contenders each year, making it some, missing it in others, but maybe never being legit title contenders if he can't be fully healthy come January and leaving us pick in the early 20's each draft as well. That's basically what Marvin Lewis was to the Bengals as a coach, he was too good for them to fire, but not good enough when it mattered and they couldn't make playoff runs with him. It was a terrible situation for them to be in for a long time, and I'm convinced that will happen with Bryce and whatever team drafts him. Which is why I prefer Stroud, equally high upside, with I think a higher floor, but if he flops we'll know and be able to move on from him faster/easier than with the way Young will "flop" in my mind. I can't lie that I'm intrigued by Young's mental side of things, the thing that stood out to me the most was that they would give him 2 plays to call in the huddle and he'd make the play call at the line, that's an NFL thing, not in college, in college the players all look back to the sideline for the final call. But Stroud is too good of a prospect for me to take the risk on the above scenario, which I think is the most likely outcome for Bryce's career.