tukafan21

I never once said that Hopkins is a terrible fit with Young. He's a terrible fit for the Panthers long term future given the current state of our roster. Developing and seeing what TMJ and Mingo can be is far more important to the long term success of the Panthers than what Hopkins would add to this year's team, that's why I'm against Hopkins. I've also been clear in all of it, that if we could trade Chark for a CB or DE, then I'd be all about getting Hopkins. Thielen is locked in as our slot and Chark is locked in on the outside. Right now, TMJ and Mingo would take almost all the snaps at the other outside spot, while they'd both be on the field in 4 WR sets and they'd both likely take some slot snaps from Thielen as he's not likely an every snap player at his age. If you add Hopkins, that limits TMJ and Mingo to 4 WR sets and spot snaps at the other 3 spots, which isn't enough to help them develop and/or see if either can be legitimate WR options for us over the next few years. I would be against adding any WR in the league over the age of 28 if they'd take the 2nd outside WR spot away from TMJ/Mingo, no matter who they are. If they're younger than 28 and would be here thru all of Bryce's rookie contract and prime SB window, it's a different discussion. Not sure why you still struggle with that concept

Who is saying every WR is a diva? For the record, I've never once said that Hopkins is a diva if that's what you're insinuating. Me saying he would demand 150 targets on the year isn't meant as him actually demanding it, but more of just how many targets would end up going his way and I think it's a detriment to TMJ and Mingo's development. Anyone who has watched Diggs' career can see that he's a diva (his brother kinda is as well to be honest). I also wouldn't consider Antonio Brown a diva, he's more of a cancer to a team/locker room than a diva. Diggs also isn't the type of diva that almost all teams would want to avoid having on their team, hell, if I was the Colts with AR or Titans with Levis, I'd love to have Diggs. But Bryce's game is just different, it's his mental approach to the game, working through progressions, scrambling and making off script plays. If Bryce was a 3 or 4 year vet, it would be different, he'd have more of a voice and experience to handle a Diggs, but even Josh Allen, an MVP candidate who's been around for a bit now, struggled at times with him. That's why I think the argument against Diggs isn't about hurting TMJ/Mingo like it is with Hopkins, but this one would affect Bryce in a negative way Diggs would just be a terrible fit with a rookie like Bryce, and it goes both ways, Bryce probably wouldn't be a great fit for what Diggs would be looking for in a QB either if he asked for a trade, he'd want a QB who will have Diggs as his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd read on each play

Fair, but also to be clear on my end, I was only quoting you because you had mentioned if Diggs would force a trade. It was more of a preemptive post to cut off someone else, who shall remain nameless, before they start crying about how much we need to trade for Diggs

Let's cut this one off before it gets started, we will never trade for Diggs, nor should we even entertain it. Absolutely one of the best WRs in the league, better than Hopkins is at this point as well. But the guy is a huge diva who demands targets and when he doesn't get as many as he likes, he loses his cool. That's just the exact opposite type of a WR you want to give to a rookie QB, particularly one whose game looks like it will be predicated on making the right reads, spreading the ball around, and not forcing the ball to any one player. Would be the worst thing for Bryce's development and even worse for the development of TMJ/Mingo than Hopkins would be.

I like those stripes much more with them being thinner like that, hopefully it will now increase the size of the numbers on the shoulders so they don't look so goofy.

Sorry, but this just makes no sense. We took a QB about 50 picks earlier than Howell in that draft and it didn't stop us from making a move for the #1 pick. Sure, Howell didn't get hurt like Corral did, but he only played in 1 game and threw less than 20 passes, it's not like he showed some crazy potential that would have made us wanting to go into the season with him as our starter this year.

Yep, although if we can't find any decent CB's at some point, upgrading the pass rush opposite Burns can also help out a young and no so great secondary. That with some quality Safeties that we have, it's not an end of the world scenario, but it's certainly not a great CB outlook right now.

Why? California has the largest population (39 million) of any state and has 3 teams. Texas is 2nd (30) on that list and they have 2, Florida is 3rd (22) and have 3, New York is 4th (19) and they also have 3, then a sizable population drop (from 19.6 million to 12.9) to Pennsylvania who has 2 teams, then Illinois (12) who only has the 1, and then Ohio (11) who has 2. After that, Georgia, North Carolina, and Michigan are the only other states with 10+ million population, but all under 11 million which the above states all at least have. So just from a population standpoint there is no real reason they shouldn't have 3 teams, then add in that it's a warm location and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. If anything, the argument shouldn't be that Florida doesn't deserve 3, but that Texas should have a 3rd given their population size. Now if you want to say they don't deserve 3 teams just because the state is freaking crazy, then that's a different argument that I can't fault, LOL

They said Jammie can play the nickel when we drafted him, I liked what I saw from his highlights and interviews, seems like a kid who is gonna find a way to get on the field

You're allowed to have an opinion, but just have some sound logical reasons behind it and don't dismiss the people who point out the significant flaws in making the moves you want to make. You can want a player for the reasons of wanting to have that player, that's totally fair, and I agree with you there, I'd love to have Hopkins on the Panthers. But that's where my interest in Hopkins stops, because once I put even the slightest critical thinking behind the implications of signing him, it because painfully clear that it's not in the best long term interests of the Panthers to do so. When you ignore everything else that goes along with getting that player, you come across as someone who is very uneducated in regards to how the sport of football and the NFL works. You sound like someone who thinks Madden is how real football works, it's just not. And as I've pointed out numerous times, the reason for it has nothing to do with Hopkins, but more with Chark on the squad and the subsequent trickle down effects unto the development of TMJ and Mingo, and it's why I was very lukewarm on his signing from the star. As I felt like at some point we'd have been able to find a better #1 option, and if we didn't have him signed and taking up $6 million of the cap this year, then I think we'd have been the leader for Hopkin's services and I'd be 100% all about it.

It's simple, he's been this way all offseason, he's unable to see the forest through the trees, he can only look at every player/transaction in a vacuum and not the cascading affect that move may have on the rest of the team, particularly past this one season. Bryce is a rookie and we still have a lot of major holes, this isn't a legitimate SB contending year, it's a year to build for the future so we can hopefully contend for 10+ years with Bryce as our QB. First, having Hopkins 100% hinders the ability to develop TMJ and Mingo, it's not even debatable. Neither of them are beating out a healthy Chark this year for snaps outside, so 90%+ of the outside WR snaps/targets would go to Hopkins and Chark, with probably 150 targets to Hopkins. Those aren't snaps that then give TMJ/Mingo single coverage like CamWhoaaCam likes to argue, because Hopkins isn't an extra player on the field, those are snaps TMJ/Mingo would then be on the sideline. Thielen will be the main slot, and how often will we really be running 4 wide (which even then, one of those two still isn't on the field)? The minimal boost for Bryce's development this year by having Hopkins is far outweighed by the significant boost in the development TMJ and Mingo would receive by getting the bulk of those 150 targets Hopkins would get. It's not always about trying to put the best possible team on the field in 2023, it's about putting the best possible team on the field in 2023 while also building the best possible franchise for long term success, it's a balance of the two. Beyond all of that it comes down to the cap... First with that is that we still haven't signed Bryce or Mingo, that alone is about $8 million of the cap we have left, so we don't have as much as everyone thinks. After that, we have MUCH more glaring needs for vets who can immediately contribute at CB and DE/OLB. And while the names, particularly at CB, might not be out there right now, there will be cap casualties as camp gets going, and we need to keep some of the money we have left for those positions as the season approaches. Then whatever we have left can be rolled over into next year when we'll have monster cap room to try and sign some young impact stars in FA. If we wanted Hopkins, we would have needed to trade for him before we signed Chark, now that he's on board and we drafted Mingo, the Hopkins ship has sailed for 2023. I still say that I'd LOVE to have him next year assume he makes it through 2023 healthy and still playing well, we'll have the cap and not Chark on the books to make it possible as that also should be the start of the prime SB window of years 2-4 of Bryce's rookie cap hits.

I’d love to know where I said they were powerhouse teams. I literally just said they’re better teams than we are right now, which is 100% true. You seem to think we’re a top 5 team in the NFC right now, you’re delusional.

Eagles, 49ers, Cowboys, Lions, Seahawks, Vikings are all without question better teams than we are right now. Packers, Giants, Saints all very well may be better than we are right now Rams, Commanders, Falcons, maybe even Bears are all teams that are probably toss-ups at this moment. None of this is to say we aren't in a much better place than we were a year ago, but fact remains we have a rookie QB, all new coaching staff, still have holes that need to be filled, and even beyond that, we have a very young team. On offense, Dalton (35), Thielen (32), Byrd (30), Hurst (29), Moton (28), Bozeman (28), Thomas (27), Corbett (27) are our oldest players, every other player on the offensive roster is 26 or under except for a couple backup OL, with a very young potential top core of Bryce (21), Ickey (22), TMJ (22), Mingo (22). On defense, of likely starters/rotation players you have, Williams (30), Rowe (30), Shaq (29), Bell (28) as the oldest players, every other starter or rotation player is 27 or under, with some of the best of them much younger like Luvu (26), Burns (25), Brown (25), Chinn (25), and Horn (23). I'm not knocking this team, we'll contend for the division this year because the South is down right now. Our time to be legitimate SB contenders is coming if this group can develop and stay healthy, but it's just not this year yet, and adding Hopkins won't change that. We're pretty much the Lions of last year, young team very much on the rise, will compete in almost every game, be in contention for a playoff spot going into the final weeks and may or may not make it, but either way we'll look like legitimate NFC contenders going into the following season. Let him chase as ring or money somewhere else on a 1 year deal this year and if he plays well and stays healthy, we go after him next offseason when we have a ton of cap room on a 2-3 year deal for him to hopefully give us a nasty Top 3 WRs of Hopkins, TMJ, and Mingo for the prime SB window of years 2-4 of Bryce's rookie deal. But again, TMJ and Mingo aren't going to ahve a chance to develop this year if we bring in Hopkins (assuming Chark stays healthy on the opposite side, if he can't it's a different story), the snaps/targets just won't be there for them.

I don't think adding Hopkins to this current team makes us much more of a SB contender, it makes us better, but we still have a rookie QB and other holes and young players that are still developing. And if we end up in the NFCC game without Hopkins, then not signing him would be the best thing we could have done as it would mean Chark balled out and had his best season and/or TMJ/Mingo went nuts and exploded into legitimate weapons and then that Hopkins money is best used elsewhere. If Hopkins made us a legitimate SB contender it's a different discussion, but unless you're just jaded by your Panther fandom, you can't look at this team and say that we're there yet this year, which isn't a bad thing, we're clearly very much on the rise.

You do realize that total yardage doesn't mean anything. There is an argument to be made that target heavy WR 1's can hinder the growth of a rookie QB, I kinda like having a whole bunch of WR 2's which he might have 4 of them this year. Particularly with a QB like Bryce who is supposed to be a savant mentally, having 4 dependable guys he can spread it around to evenly as opposed to one guy who he would depend on might be better for his development as well.

How many 4 WR sets do you expect us to run? If we sign him, the majority of snaps would be Hopkins, Chark, Thielen with TMJ and Mingo mixed in as a 4th WR at times and spot snaps the rest. Right now those two are slotted to split the 2nd outside WR duties and both on the field for most 4 WR sets, but if we sign Hopkins and Chark stays healthy, they'd take 90%+ of the outside WR snaps. TMJ has flashed potential and this is the year we need to see if he can grow as a player and we just drafted Mingo, it would make no sense to take snaps away from our 2nd round pick this year, need him to grow with Bryce.

It's not about wanting a #1 WR, nobody was banging the trade for Hopkins drum more than I was early in the offseason. But we are not a SB contending team this year, if we were, then signing Hopkins would be totally different as having him would be much better for the team than developing TMJ and Mingo. Which is why I've advocated for hoping Hopkins signs a 1 year deal somewhere else this year and then we sign him next summer when our SB window really opens in years 2-4 of Bryce's rookie deal. But opening up that SB window is more than just Bryce's development, it's also developing our other players, particularly two 2nd round WRs who both have high upside potential and with Chark on the team now, I think Hopkins hurts our long term outlook more than he helps it this year. I am a Hopkins fan, I think he can still be a Top 10 WR in the league for a few more years, I just don't think it's the right fit with our current roster right now. If we can sign him and trade Chark for a CB or DE/OLB, then sign me up, but with our roster, that money is needed elsewhere and/or saved to roll over into next year's cap when we can make some splash FA signings.

It's not a narrative that signing Hopkins would prevent growth from the younger WRs, it's just a fact. If we sign Hopkins, he's on the field for almost every offensive snap next year unless injured or just needs a play off for a breather and almost every one of those snaps would be stolen from TMJ or Mingo. And having Hopkins wouldn't give those young WRs single coverage as they're not going to be getting doubled as is, and with Hopkins here, they can't get single coverage if they can't get on the field because of Hopkins, it's not like he'd be eligible as a 12th player for us. Right now, Chark is the #1 outside, Thielen is in the Slot but probably the #2 target, with TMJ or Mingo the other outside starting WR and the #3 target, with the other being #4 on the depth chart and will spell the 3 starters as needed. We bring Hopkins on board, and one of those two will see VERY limited snaps, while Hopkins takes around 150-160 targets if he stays healthy for the full season while Chark operates as the #2 all year. That's 150+ targets that would mostly have been spread between TMJ and Mingo, as Chark's targets as the #1 or #2 outside WR would likely be pretty similar anyways. Let's just say without Hopkins, TMJ and Mingo would end up splitting 100 of those targets, that's more than TMJ had all of last year (47) and only has 77 in his two year career. So in essence, if we signed Hopkins, both players would likely end up losing about a full season's worth of targets and experience than if Hopkins isn't signed here. Whoever ends up with the #4 spot probably gets about 50 targets on the year instead of around 100, while whoever ends up the #5 ends up with maybe 25ish instead of 75 or more. Your argument would be correct if we didn't have Chark, it absolutely would open things up for TMJ and/or Mingo. But with Chark, it then helps open things up for Chark and Thielen while significantly limiting the snaps that would fall to TMJ and Mingo. We're not a SB contender this year, and yes, Hopkins likely helps Bryce develop a tad faster, which is our main goal. I think it would hinder the growth of TMJ and Mingo more than it would help Bryce and thus hurt us more in the long run.

We don't have the 2nd most cap space in reality though. Yes, technically at this moment we do, but we also still haven't signed Bryce or Mingo yet, they'll take up a little over $8 million of the cap. I'm not against signing Hopkins in general, however if we did it, I wouldn't be on board with giving him a big 1 year deal, I'd only be okay if it was a 2 or 3 year deal to make sure he's here for multiple years. Worst thing we could do would be give him big money for this year, using up much of the cap we have left, and then him leaving next year. If that were to happen, we'd be much better off just saving the cap to roll over into next year for some big FA splash signings. The problem with signing him is that it does hurt our chances to develop both TMJ and Mingo this year unless Chark can't stay healthy. Hopkins, Chark, and Thielen would absolutely be the top 3, whichever of the other two fell to #5 on the depth chart would struggle to get snaps and we need to develop those two and see what they might become with Bryce. Honestly, if we could sign Hopkins and trade Chark for maybe a CB or DE, that would be my most ideal scenario in terms of going after Hopkins this year. But in general, my preference would be that he signs a 1 year deal somewhere this year, and then Bryce balls out and he wants to come home and play with him next year after Chark's one year deal is up.

He played the majority of last season with a broken thumb on his throwing hand (happened in week 5) and had no decent WRs for much of the year until Watson exploded late, as I'm pretty sure Lazard was playing banged up for a while too. He went from Lazard being his #1 target for much of last year to having him as his likely #3 target behind Wilson and Hardman. Yea, elite QB's usually fall off a cliff at some point late in their careers, but I chalk last year up more to the broken thumb and WR issues than his abilities just going in the crapper. Remember, Rodgers has always been a guy who keeps his body in great shape, and while he may be 39, his body has really only taken the beating of a 36 year old with him not really playing his first 3 years in the league. I think he has multiple good seasons left in him if he wants to keep playing and yea, maybe next year or the year after Bryce is then playing better than Rodgers, but not this year, I'd be shocked, and that's no knock on Bryce, I'd say that about any rookie QB ever vs a rejuvenated Rodgers with real weapons.

Not a big fan of it to be honest, 0 looks weird on a pass rusher to me, was hoping Horn would take it

No chance, only way that happens is if Rodgers or multiple weapons in that offense are injured for the majority of the season. You can be as high as you want on Bryce, but he's still a rookie and Rodgers is a year removed from back to back MVPs. He now goes to a team with legit weapons around him with Wilson, Breece, Hardman, Lazard, Davis and an elite level defense. The Jets may not win the SB and Rodgers may not win the MVP, but to think Bryce as a rookie is going to have a better season than Rodgers, assuming both are healthy for a full season, is just asinine and/or a bad homer take.

I don't think that's really the case in this specific situation though. I don't expect Hopkins to sign a multi-year contract with anyone, not at this point with him getting cut so late in the FA season. His best bet, assuming he still believes in his ability, is to sign a 1 year deal, prove he can stay healthy and play at an elite level, and then cash in next spring with a bigger 2-3 year deal. Taking less money this year to play with a better QB/team to showcase himself would help set himself up for a bigger payday next year than going to a team with questionable QB play like the Titans. If we're talking 18 million for one year compared to like 3-5 million, then yes, maybe he's taking the money, but if it's 18 to play with a crap QB or 10 to play with an elite one (while also contending for a SB this year), then I think he'll take the less money for sure. Which frankly is what I'm hoping happens and he ends up here next year. If Bryce balls out and shows we have a real shot at contending on his rookie contract, coming back home to the Carolina's to be Bryce's #1 target as Chark is on just the 1 year deal, would make a lot of sense, particularly as we'll have the money next year to make some FA splash signings.

Hopkins is visiting with the Titans?!?! What the hell?!?! I'm sorry, but if he's looking to contend for a title and play with an established quality QB, in what world do the Titans and Tannehill fit that criteria?

The whole grass vs turf debate is just so dumb. For YEARS everyone complained about how torn up the field is late in the season, you can't have it both ways, either the field is going to be torn up for the last month of the season or we have turf. It's much easier for a Green Bay or Buffalo to have a grass field because they're pretty small market areas, places that aren't trying to use that stadium for as many events as possible outside of NFL games. Just playing NFL games in stadiums isn't enough these days to keep most stadiums profitable, they need the concerts, college games, soccer, monster truck, etc events to keep money coming in. If we have a grass field, those other events on top of the NFL season give us a terrible and torn up field come December. So which is it? Do you want grass and a torn up field late in the year or have turf? It's one or the other.