tukafan21

HELLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOO In no world is it worth giving up a first rounder for a 30 year old WR who's own team isn't interested in keeping him after this season.

If we have to franchise tag him, he's never playing another down for us again. We couldn't come to an agreement with him this offseason, if he balls out and puts up 15+ sacks this year and is the best player on our defense and then we can't get an extension done by the franchise tag deadline, we never will. And if he almost didn't play this year, he's not playing another season on a franchise tag. If we have to tag him and don't trade him, he'll show up when he's forced to in week 10 or whenever. If he plays out the year and plays great, we either make him the highest paid defensive player ever or will need to franchise tag and trade him, neither are really the most attractive options, needed to get a deal done before today.

Well yea, after today that's not surprising. If he plays like today all season, he'd be able to get a deal just as big as Bosa on the open market.

Said it at the time, liked the player, hated the contract, especially after seeing what the rest of the RB market was getting

I still don't hate our skill position players outside of not having a true #1 WR. Sanders looked solid today outside of the fumble and Hubbard looked like a totally different player as well. Hurst looked better than I was expecting, now I'm wondering if he's going to be the safety valve that I was expecting Thielen to be for Bryce this year. I think Bryce just looked a little rattled at times today, something I don't think will be a long term issue but something that isn't a big surprise for a rookie starting week 1 on the road. I think Chark will be good for us, when on the field which I only expect to happen for about 8-10 games this season. I'm also not going to judge Mingo off of his first game either, combine the first game nerves for him and Bryce and I'm not concerned about him today, he'll keep getting better as the year moves on. TMJ was supremely disappointing today though and I'm not sure he's going to be much more than a JAG at this point, we'll see.

I also accept your apology, seeing as I was telling you the same thing all offseason, many many many times I thought we would win somewhere between 7-9 games, but now I'm not so sure, especially as the start of this schedule is brutal and we could end up starting 0-6 after how we looked today

Pretty sure it was only early discussions that they wanted Brown or Burns in the trade, it was including DJ that let us only trade away 1 future first, if DJ wasn't included they wanted multiple future firsts. Because they knew they had to get their QB a #1 weapon and knew there wasn't one on the FA market this year, we instead gave ours away and signed oft-injured Chark for that role, SMH

Are you still refusing to accept that it was Chark's signing that made going after Hopkins not make any sense? Chark getting hurt is exactly why I didn't want him and would have rather waited on someone like Hopkins becoming available as then we'd have had a slot for him. But once we signed Chark, Thielen, and drafted Mingo, our WR room was set outside of back end guys being brought in. This one is on Fitterer, just like the Burns situation, I'm getting very frustrated with Fitts lately and I'd been a defender of his for a while.

I don't understand why Thielen only got 2 targets today, him and Bryce really seemed to have a good connection going during the preseason.

He won't be a bust but a pick that didn't work out due to injuries. When on the field he's been near elite, that alone makes him not a bust, just a bad pick, there is a difference. I had high hopes coming into the season, but not even getting to halftime in week 1 before getting hurt is a bad sign. I'm not going to completely write him off yet, but I think all my hope and expectations for him have now gone out the window unfortunately.

And some of us who have been banging the drum to give him whatever he was asking for, for weeks if not months, are sitting here just shaking our heads at how predictable this was and how much Fitterer keeps screwing up his negotiating power. If he's not signed by Week 2, we need to trade him as at that point I wouldn't have any faith in Fitterer getting it done later at a price that doesn't become prohibitive to putting the rest of the squad together.

I'll be watching a lot of Jaguars football this year as I kinda bet my fantasy season on way overpaying for the stack of Lawrence and Ridley. Solid first half to start the season for me with the two of them though

1.5 sacks and a TFL in the first quarter, most predictable thing ever, if I'm his agents I'm now asking for almost the same thing as Bosa or just playing out the season. So fuging angry right now that we couldn't get a deal done before today, been saying this is exactly what would happen for weeks now.

You’re right, those 4 games where Chase was injured and Higgins put up numbers equivalent to what would have made him 3rd in the league in catches and yards proves he couldn’t be a true #1

Because I don't think either side would be willing to risk pre-agreeing on that kind of money and decision on the results of a single game. Particularly because it could set up an ugly situation where Burns played well but didn't get any sacks or TFL, which very much can happen with a pass rusher. He could get double teamed like crazy while others wreck havoc, which would be of credit to him and his agents would argue it, but the team would argue that he had no sacks. It would only set up a potentially ugly fight come Monday, just wouldn't make sense for any side of this to want to do that.

A guy in my league has by far the worst scenario I've ever seen in a league before. Our draft was Labor day and we do a $300 budget auction draft with an 8 spot starting lineup (we have 2 flexes but no defense or kicker) and his starting lineup in week 1 consists of only $101 of his budget and a player he picked up off waivers after the draft. He spent $42 on Mahomes and then in trying to get the bidding higher on Hurts, accidentally got stuck with buying him for $31 and he hasn't been able to trade him yet. He spent $77 on Kelce who then got hurt the day after our draft. He spent $69 on Kupp, a few days before going on IR And then he also spent $18 on Kamara who of course is suspended for the first few weeks. That's $195 of his budget that he can't even play in week 1 if he wanted to BRUTAL

If that was the case, Burns would have been upbeat all week instead of pouting and his family wouldn't be tweeting about him being upset right now.

That's exactly what I've been saying and why I said going into the season with him playing out the contract shouldn't be an option. If he puts up 15+ sacks, we're not getting him for a penny less than what Bosa got, because he knows someone would pay that on the open market. Every day he doesn't have a new contract I become more open to the idea of trading him, particularly since if he starts hot, his price is only going to go up and we can't get a deal with whatever he wants at this point. We're at the point where my main hope is we get a long term deal done before the game tomorrow, but if that can't happen, I kinda just want him to sit and we decide to trade him, I don't like him playing out the year, it won't end well for us.

Not unless they come to a deal before the game I could be wrong of course, not like I have any insider insight into the situation, just a gut feeling.

If he sits out, it's not for leverage in negotiations, it's to preserve his health while waiting on a contract he is likely expecting around $100 million guaranteed. He has to show up by about week 10 anyways to get the season towards FA. If someone said losing up to $10 million would be your best path to guaranteeing $100 million, I don't think you'd worry about losing that 10

Can we also please get a clarification on "Burns has practiced all week" because I keep seeing people say that. But I swear, I feel like I've also seen reports that he's only done individual drills and nothing with the full defense. Which if it's the case, then that's not him practicing, it's him doing the bare minimum to keep his leverage at maximum levels.

It's fair to point out, but like you said, there just isn't a way this is the case. How could the team not hold up their side of some deal short of them saying, "don't worry, no matter what we'll give you a contract offer that you'd accept before week 1 starts" As that's not something they could say as it would screw them even worse in their negotiating position than they already did by turning down that trade. Not saying they're offering something fair, maybe they're not, but there is not way they had some sort of deal with Burns that they're now reneging on.

Yes, players get hurt in practice at times, but the risk is supremely small in doing so. I'd have had no issue with Jones or Bosa holding out if I was a fan of their teams, just as I wouldn't have had issue with Burns doing it either. I take issue with Burns playing the "I'm doing what's best for the team" card all offseason to then threaten to sit out the week before the game, it screams dirty negotiating tactics to me. Had he been holding out, we'd have been preparing for months to play without him, but by doing what he did, he's holding our defense hostage with this threat because he knows we're not ready to play without him. It's the opposite of doing what's best for the team, even if he plays in the end, because he's causing a serious distraction at the moment. And again, stop comparing Burns to any of these players as not a single one of them is a fair comparison. Bosa/Jones completely held out so their teams knew what was up the whole time. While Evans/Higgins just aren't even remotely similar situations as neither team wants to bring them back next year anyways, so holding out by either of them only hurts themselves as they can't show out for a new contract by another team in the offseason, all they could have done would be to hold out to force a trade.

Huge difference between Burns and those 2 guys Evans is 30 and was never going to hold out as he knew the Bucs weren't going to re-sign him anyways, he just put a deadline on it to eliminate contract talk during the season. Higgins is a key cog on a very real SB contender who also knows there is about a 99% chance they won't re-sign, holding out would do him no good when his path to a big contract is balling out this year and hitting free agency next year. Burns is a player the team wants to keep and is also looking at a contract that likely would be about 30% more per season than Higgins would be looking at, all while playing a position that is much more physically demanding on your body and thus more likely to see an injury. And nobody has said he discussions haven't been productive or amicable, but I struggle to see a scenario where after all this time we couldn't agree to a deal before they flew to Atlanta, and then are able to work one out tonight or in the morning. If Burns was going to play without a new contract (as everyone assumed he would all offseason if one wasn't reached) he wouldn't have done what he did this week and threaten not to play. The only way I think he plays tomorrow is if this was literally a plan between the team and Burns the whole time, so the Falcons didn't think he'd play, but I don't see that being likely either.

I don't think so, I don't think he plays without a deal done, if he travels and then ends up not playing, it will be a significantly larger cloud hanging over the team tomorrow than if he just didn't make the trip. This whole situation is really starting to make me angry with how Burns has handled it. If he was going to hold out, just do it from the start and I'd have no issue with him doing so. Really not a fan of him talking all summer about how we're building something here and he knows it's important for him to be here and be a part of it, only to threaten to hold out in the days leading into the first game. If I'm running the team and he's not signed before the game starts tomorrow and playing, then he's never suiting up for the Panthers again, he'd be inactive until a trade is able to be worked out (and again, I've been someone who has been screaming for months to just pay him what he wants, so I don't say this lightly).