tukafan21

See, that's not it with me either, that kinda stuff was rare back in Deion's day, but it's par for the course now. To me, it's not even that he's been campaigning for himself, it's how he's been doing it. He keeps talking about his impact on both sides of the ball and how nobody has done it like that before. Even if it's true (as the closest was Woodson who didn't play near as much on offense as is), to me it's just more proof about his true desires to do it in the NFL too. It's not like it's new, he's been saying for his whole college career that he expects to play both sides of the ball in the NFL. I'd be worried how he handles not getting to do that, especially if he's a CB and that team's offense is struggling. I think he would turn into a locker room problem when he's not then being used full time both ways and be quite disgruntled about it, just look how upset he is right now while doing both and not being considered the clear Heisman front runner.

Well no, if he was a legit starting CB and WR, especially if he's playing up to his potential on both sides, he absolutely would get paid as such. No, maybe he doesn't get the full salary of an elite WR and CB combined, but he'll get significantly more than anyone else at either position. Again, I don't think he will be able to do that, nor would a team let him, but for the sake of discussion, I do think a team would pay him an absurd number if he's able to do both.

Yep, it's a serious red flag to me about his motivations. He's made it clear for years that he wants to be a 2 way player in the NFL. His complaining about not being the Heisman front runner on podcasts lately, pointing specifically to his two way play, has just been weird in itself. Flying out for Gameday to do it in person on your bye week, that's next level weird. Let your school, your fans, even your coaches talk you up for the Heisman. You can even answer questions about it when asked by the media. But this is a step too far and really has me questioning what happens if he doesn't get his way in the NFL to play both sides full time. Even just the tweets lately showing him "stealing" shoes from Deion's office, or "stealing" his car from his ranch. I get it, he's just having some fun with his HC, but it's again something we've never seen before. Something about it is just off putting to me and wonder what will happen to him once he's outside that Deion bubble.

https://awfulannouncing.com/college-football/colorado-travis-hunter-big-noon-kickoff-college-gameday.html Really? I know he's been complaining on podcasts the last few weeks about not being the Heisman front runner, but now he's flying to Penn State on his bye week to be in person for Gameday so he can campaign for himself for Heisman. Look, the kid is supremely talented, I've said I think he's the most sure thing on the defensive side of the ball in this draft class. But I'm dead serious, I'm starting to get to the point where I might not even have him on my draft board come draft day. I'm just not sure he's ever going to be happy not being a full time two way player in the NFL, and I don't think a single team would ever entertain it. His best case scenario for being a two way player at the next level is being a CB who gets 3-5 snaps on offense a game to see if he can make an explosive play, and even half of those he's just going to be out there as a decoy. For me, it's all going to come down to the things he says in the months leading into the draft, more so than any other player I can remember. If he keeps pushing to be a 2 way player, he's off my board, because i don't think he's ever going to have the right mind set and a disgruntled star is going to be a locker room problem and then leave in FA or force their way out in a trade. Let someone else deal with that headache, we don't have the roster or locker room to deal with that situation if it plays out like that, and I think there is a very real chance it will once a team tries to make him play one side of the ball. And before someone says it, this has NOTHING to do with my love of T-Mac or anything like that. I literally last night said he's probably #2 on my board, but seeing this today has those questions creeping back into my head about his mindset. I haven't like this complaining about this on podcasts lately, but him flying across the country to do it in person on Gameday takes it to another level and really makes me question what his mindset will be in the NFL if he doesn't get to play both ways.

Yes, but he also basically only played one season in college too So in the last 4 seasons of football for him so far, he's basically only played one year. He needs snaps this year to make sure he doesn't regress before we ever actually get to fully roll him out there next year.

I get it, and I'm not a "stats are the end all be all" type of guy But if you break almost 40 year old records, then yea, I'm just going to say you're the best at that position that year, regardless of anything else. Kinda like if a WR in the NFL were to ever get 2,000 yards. He's the best WR that year, no matter the reasons or how anyone else's film looks. Sometimes raw stats are too ridiculous to not take them into account

Yea, sorry, if someone is possibly/likely to break Barry's old rushing records, I don't think the "better team" argument holds much water. You put up historic numbers like that, you're the best RB that year, no matter the team around you.

Uh... pretty sure the kid from Boise State would like to have a word with you lol

Oh it's beyond awful, people think these boards have been bad the last couple years, my Arizona board is so much worse right now, the place is imploding The team is garbage, but T-Mac is a certifiable stud stuck in an awful situation. If our QB wasn't his childhood best friend, he'd likely just say he has a sprained ankle and sit out the year to protect his draft stock, but he's not that kinda kid, he's going to keep playing unless he actually gets hurt.

Fights through PI and tips the ball to himself for the one handed TD catch https://x.com/SportsclubBOS/status/1852828040457290034

oops wrong thread

This times a million The only way his value goes up is if he looks good the rest of the way, and if that happens, we'd be more likely to try and give him one more year to see what happens. The most likely scenario is he continues to look like garbage and/or he gets benched again, which is only going to hurt his value. I see no reason to not just take the best offer for him and call it a day, turn the page and move on from this disaster of a trade/pick

lol you guys think this place is bad with how much people hate on the franchise. My Arizona forum is putting this place to shame as of late and today is just the icing on top. Our best play of the game has been a punt that got downed at the literal 1 inch line They then went 99.9 yards for a TD in 12 plays. Not sure I've ever seen a college team look this inept, it's just comical at this point, with a HC in their first year with a sizable buyout, our fan base is melting down

Fine, then how about this We end up at #1 with the Raiders at #2, Shedeur explodes into an elite prospect but Deion won't allow us to take Shedeur, we bluff someone else trading up to #1 for Shedeur and Deion convinces them to give us #2, along with multiple 1sts and 2nds. We then pull a Texans from last year and flip those extra Raiders picks and whatever else it takes to trade into #3 with whoever has it to have back to back picks. We then take Ward #2, T-Mac #3, everybody happy. Yes, this is 99% joking, but honestly, it's not exactly impossible to happen if Shedeur did explode by the draft and Deion did that.

Okay, so answer this one then, since you said you can't answer something you don't think will happen...... You have said numerous times in the past that even though you want them, you don't think Deion will allow us to take his son or Hunter. You then taking Ward #1 over T-Mac just because he's the QB?

This response is absolutely and utterly insane, I've literally this same thing out multiple times in previous posts about mock drafts, like a bunch of times. I've never once denied it's a possibility of them going #1, I've just said that I wouldn't take them there. And YET AGAIN, you're proving that you don't believe they are elite QB prospects, you literally just said "first prospects off the board REGARDLESS OF TALENT" It's literally what I've been saying this whole time, these QB's don't have the draft grades to deserve that pick. They're only being mocked there because mocks are trying to predict the draft, not saying who deserves to be drafted where. Dude, this is exactly why I question your reading comprehension skills. You keep trying to say you got me with something, but in those exact posts you're just proving my points, the literal opposite of catching me in some lie or moment of ignorance.

So let me get this straight.... You're not okay with taking a non QB at #1 You think there are 2 Elite QBs in this class But you're okay taking a non QB at #2, despite your above belief? You're just proving my point in that you don't actually think there are 2 Elite QB's as much as you just don't like the idea of not taking a QB if drafting 1st overall. So again, argue for a QB all you want because you like the player, but taking a player at a position solely because of the draft slot is not the way to build a successful franchise. I could respect you saying you'd take Hunter over taking a QB just because it's the #1 pick. I'd still disagree, because I think Hunter is a CB in the NFL and I'm not taking a CB over a WR anywhere in the Top 5 of the draft when we already have Horn and need a true outside #1 WR. But again, I'd at least respect that decision over the QB just because of the position and draft slot.

Stop looking at mock drafts and read what analysts are actually saying about the QBs. Again, mock drafts are trying to predict what will happen and QB's are always over mocked even in a down QB year because teams tend to draft them. The QB's being mocked there doesn't mean they think there are 2 elite QB's in this class, learn the difference. Again I point to 2022 when Pickett and Willis were very often both mocked in the Top 10, Pickett fell to I think 20ish and Willis ended up the 3rd QB taken and in the 2nd round. If there was even one true elite QB, the fan base isn't even having the discussion about trade backs or DE's or anything else. Just there being pretty much a consensus on wanting to trade back is proof there isn't actually a legit elite QB prospect, because if there was, no amount of additional draft assets would be worth us trading back as opposed to taking them ourselves. Also you keep saying 2 elite QB's, which I know you're referring to Sanders and Ward, but there isn't even a consensus on them being the Top 2 QB's anyways, a lot of people put Milroe in there, if not ahead of them. Out of curiosity I just looked, PFF's overall big board has Milroe at 5, Ward at 15, and Sanders at 21 (ironically, Hunter and T-Mac are 1-2 lol). Again, argue for a QB all you want, but don't spout nonsense about there being 2 clear elite QB prospects in the class, it's just not the case this year, no matter how badly you want there to be since we'll be drafting where we are.

There is no Cam Newton in this draft, and that's the point. If there was a Cam type of QB, obviously I'm taking them over T-Mac or anyone else in this draft. You shouldn't make a pick because of the draft position, you should make a pick because it's the right pick/player. I couldn't care less that it's the #1 pick, to me, it's player vs player, pros vs cons, risks vs rewards, all of it mixed together and see where it balances out. Whether it's the 1st, 5th, 10th, 100th pick, it should never be more than judging the pros/cons of the available players and making the best pick for the long term future of your franchise. This franchise isn't in a place where dropping an overdrafted QB into it is going to make it an instant contender. Even if that QB does pan out, we're a few years away from getting enough pieces to contend anyways. If I thought one of these QB's was worth that risk vs a safer pick, then I'd be for it, but I'm just not there on any of them. And while I always rant about T-Mac because that's who I'd take if not going with a QB. I'd also take all of... Hunter (as a CB), maybe the DT from Michigan (who coincidentally went to HS with T-Mac, yea that HS is going to have 2 Top picks in the same draft), or whoever the best pass rusher ends up being even tho they aren't a true #1 pick type... over any of the QB's in this class as of right now. We've tried to patch holes and find the quick fix for what, 5 years now and we're literally the worst franchise in the league. I'm fine taking a proper route at building up the roster to having a long term contender, and sometimes that means making the safer pick than the riskier one with admittedly higher upside based on the position. We need can't miss guys, I don't like the idea of taking a bigger risk with the #1 pick solely because it's the #1 pick, guess that makes me crazy, lol.

Shoot, I just thought of an even better comparison, especially considering I've always said my personal comp for T-Mac is AJ Green. In 2011 the Bengals took AJ Green Their QB at the time, NOBODY, as Palmer had already told them he was going to retire. The QB's they passed on, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder. None of those guys panned out, but they were all liked very much in the draft process (well at least the first 2, think Ponder might have been a head scratcher at the time if I remember correctly lol) They then took Dalton in the 2nd and had their QB/WR combo for the next decade. Sure they never got over the hump, but they obviously don't regret doing it.

Did we take over a thread about who you'd take #1 by having a debate on who you'd take #1? Basically you still don't want to answer my question, probably because your answer would be either T-Mac like myself, or Hunter, which taking a CB #1 overall is even crazier on the surface than what you're saying I'm stupid for in wanting a WR there. As I've said before, it's a season without a traditional clear top pick(s). It would be great if we could trade back if we got #1, but if not, there's nothing wrong with taking a truly elite WR and build out our roster correctly for once instead of always trying to find the quick fix and it backfiring.

I just thought of an interesting comparison for what I'm arguing with taking T-Mac and how to build up to hopefully being a contender. The mid 2000's Arizona Cardinals In 2003 they took Anquan Boldin early in the 2nd, kinda a decent comp for Legette with style of play and being more of an elite #2 than a true outside #1 (they also took a WR in the 1st too who didn't pan out). In 2004 they took Larry Fitzgerald #3 overall, the true outside #1. Their QB's at the time, Jeff Blake and Josh McCown The QB they passed on to take Fizgerald, Philip Rivers. They were in the Super Bowl a few years later after they found their QB in Warner to slot into an already built out roster of elite weapons. Cam, you asked how it would look if we passed on a QB who pans out for a WR, well, do you think the Cardinals regret taking Fitz over Rivers? I highly doubt it. Our roster is more than one offseason away from contending. I'm not looking for the quick fix because there isn't one with the state of this franchise at the moment, I'm looking to contend for a decade. I don't think a QB in this draft class is good enough to take 1st overall with everything else we still need. My next preference would be an elite pass rusher, but again, I don't see one of them in this draft either. My personal bias aside, I very honestly think T-Mac is the most can't miss offensive prospect in this draft (Hunter would be that on defense). He is the WR we've been trying to get since we lost Smitty. Brooks, T-Mac, Legette, Coker/FA, Sanders would have the potential to be one of the best offensive weapon sets in the NFL. Sure, hopefully we could hit on a superstar QB in the next draft, but even if not, if those guys pan out, with them all are in their prime together, we wouldn't need a Mahomes or Allen to contend, we'd only need to find our Jared Goff. and spend all our FA money the next couple offseason on Defense.

My dude, why do you keep doing things like this? I don't take joy in questioning anyone else's intelligence or reading comprehension skills, but you keep doing things like things, and I can't let such asinine responses go without calling them out, it's just not in me to do that. LITERALLY in the very first sentence of the post you quoted, I straight up acknowledge and accept that you would take the QB there if you can't trade down, which in turn, is an acknowledgement of how you view them as an elite prospect. Period. There is no debating that, I literally right there in the first sentence did EXACTLY what you are claiming here that I can't do. BEYOND any of that, you're still completely ignoring my question to you, which is a completely valid question in a discussion such as this right now, let's recap shall we........ The generic question is what to do with the #1 pick. It's near unanimous that we use it to trade down, great, since we all agree, we can move past it in regards to the current discussion, as it's a hypothetical that requires another team's help to happen. So we move onto the question of what we would do with the #1 pick if we have to make the selection there, great, simple, easy peasy, on the same page still. You have said you'd take a QB, I disagree, but numerous times have acknowledge you and some others feel that way (even though you bafflingly thing I haven't, disagreeing with someone isn't refusing to acknowledge their view). In the last 28 years the only positions to go #1 overall have been QB, DE, and OT. I've clearly explained why I don't see any of those positions making sense for the Panthers, in our current state, to take in this draft, with this draft class. Because of that, you still have to make a selection, you don't get to pass on making a pick. So I said I would take T-Mac with a full explanation (numerous times) as to why I view him as the prospect to take compared to the other options. To which you deride and question my football intelligence solely for saying I'd take a WR #1 overall when you don't have a QB. I then ask you a simple question, which you refuse to answer solely on the basis of you saying you'd go with the QB. You can't attack someone for saying they'd take a WR there and then refuse to answer the question of who you would take instead if you couldn't take a QB. Because there is a very real possibility that the Panthers will look at the QB's and agree with me (and many others) that there isn't a QB that is worth the risk taking at #1 overall and they end up unable to trade back and have to make a pick there and won't go with a QB because of their grades on this class. Which again, is my question to you, in THAT scenario, who are you drafting 1st overall if it's not a QB? It's a simple question, and answering it doesn't mean you don't believe in the QB's at that spot in the slightest, or even that I'm not accepting of your views on the QB's in this class.

My point was less about what you'd do if you have to pick #1 and can't trade back, because you've made your point, you'd take the QB. The point was if you also didn't believe a QB was worth it there, who would you then take? Because you keep bashing me for saying I'd take a WR #1, but if a QB or trade back isn't an option, you still have to make the draft pick, that's why i was asking who you'd take in that situation. You can't bash me for taking a WR there if you refuse to say who you'd then take instead, whether it be Hunter, one of the DL, or something else. And it wouldn't matter of they had a successful rookie season, the same way people disregard what Stroud did last year, because they say (and rightfully so) that if you drop Stroud on the Panthers last year, he likely severely struggles given the team that was around him. It's just more proof that you can't view things outside a vacuum, one player succeeding somewhere else doesn't mean you made the wrong pick yourself. You keep arguing for a QB by saying that you're taking them because of the position, NOT the player. It's just beyond comical at this point that you can't see that. If the team doesn't think Sanders, Ward, or some other QB grades out to be worth the risk at #1, then it doesn't matter how they end up doing with someone else. Because us taking them at #1 if we didn't think they were worth it, would be a completely moronic situation, it's taking a player because of their position, not their abilities. This franchise isn't a QB away from contending. People want to solve all of our problems with a QB pick and think it's going to turn us into contenders in Year 1. We're in a multi year re-build that hasn't even fully kicked off yet, forcing a pick because of their position is how you compound your issues and tank that player's chances for success from the start. Until people realize and accept that, they're going to want to keep making picks based on need, not based on the players available. You don't build a contending team by taking risks at the top of the draft every year because of your needs with no regards to the player's NFL projections. 3 QB's went in 2023 because of their position and team need, with disregard to their draft grades. 2 of them have already been benched in Year 2 and the 3rd is having a down year themselves. How you can't see that there is a distinct chance that is repeating itself with this draft, when we're one of those teams who is in that situation, is utterly beyond me. Just because you need a QB and they historically get taken in the Top 5 every year, doesn't mean you need to do that in a year you don't believe there is a QB worthy of the pick. I'm VERY down on this year's QB class as Top 5 type of picks. If we were at say 12, with a better roster, then yea, I'd be much more on board with taking that risk. But we can't take a huge risk on these QB's when we have as many holes as we do, with no 2nd round pick. If we did that and we miss, this franchise will be in such despair in a year or two that it would be unimaginably worse than it is right now. But again, that's what I keep telling you, you only view things in a vacuum, not taking all realities into consideration.

Yes we should have the talent to prevent that, the problem is we don't. The new coaching staff did not do a good job at replacing the offensive players we lost from last year. I can't stress enough how bad the rest of our offensive players are. And the problem isn't as much the other weapons anyways as much as the offensive line. We basically have the college equivalent of the Panthers line last year, our QB is running for his life almost immediately after the snap, when you combine that with double and triple coverage (plus the QB just playing awful on top of it), no matter how good the WR is, he's not going to be able to get open that quickly to get him the ball. And if any team is planning on drafting Hunter in the Top 5 as a WR who only gets used periodically on defense, they're going to severely regret it in a few years, it needs to be the other way around. He's rail thin and already keeps getting hurt in college, he's not going to last as a WR at the next level. I can't knock anyone saying to take Hunter as CB over T-Mac, but if anyone is taking him as a WR over either T-Mac or Burden, I think they're making a big mistake.