tukafan21

Although, I will admit there is a big caveat to this game. Packers coming off an emotionally big game against Rodgers on the road in Primetime and a MNF matchup with the Eagles at home the following week, it is a prime opportunity for a let down game with them being at home and looking ahead. Which if it's the case, I think we still lose, but only something like 24-21.

We lose in a non competitive game 38-20. Bryce doesn't look much better than Dalton did and all the people this week saying "see we told you he's great, look how bad this team is without Bryce" blame it on the OL injuries and/or his ankle and already start laying the groundwork for that being why he is still one of the worst starting QB's the rest of the season and why he deserves another year, if not even an outright extension. And no, that's not what I'm rooting for, just what I objectively think will happen, just as I've been saying for a month would happen once we got past the cupcake portion of the schedule.

Those jerseys are terrible, but I can't like, those helmets are pretty freaking awesome.

That you think all I care about is T-Mac getting his yards is just sad. Yes, I'm over enthusiastic about him being a Panther. Yes, I would love to see him put up monster stats and become a superstar. No denying any of that, would be dumb to say or think otherwise. But that doesn't mean everything, or anything, I say in regards to the team is rooted in me wanting him to have better stats. I want those, but even more, I want to be playing competitive playoff football again. I'm not going to try and go find old posts of mine, but I was saying these EXACT same things about how to build the roster and find a long term QB solution well before we drafted T-Mac, these are not new stances by me on here, hell, I was saying them in 2023 about that class and why I didn't want to trade up for one. We might not find a "better starter" in FA if the best option is say someone like Jameis. But I still contend that Jameis would be FAR better for the development of all our young pass catchers than Bryce is, even though Bryce would win us a few more games because of less mistakes. He would be cheap, would let us use our draft picks and cap room on other dire needs, and then if the roster is in the right place, you attack QB hard in some manner the following offseason and they're stepping into a much better team around them. You view that as a step backwards, I view it as prudent roster building towards contending for a SB. Keeping around a QB who isn't the guy or overreaching for the wrong replacement is how you get stuck in the cycle we are in now. And no, that has nothing to do with T-Mac other than him being part of a group of WRs and TEs that are basically all in their 2nd or rookie seasons, all of whom could be a part of a playoff caliber team with some growth. And also no, this has nothing to do with not being able to see past the long ball. I care far less about that than I do having a QB that can properly throw a pass that is 20 yards downfield, but to the sideline and from the opposite hash. Bryce can't drive that throw at an NFL level, he has to feather it in there and we've seen that pass get overthrown, broken up, or picked off too many times because of it (not to mention the under throws when he's trying it off balance). That some people still can't see that undeniable fact is what I struggle to understand and take them seriously.

Keeping Young would be worst than bringing in someone who isn't even as good as him. Once a 1st overall pick has proven to not be the guy, keeping him around is just asking for trouble, more so than going for a re-set. Especially as it would mean picking up his 5th year, which in turn means he's probably here for 2 more years. Sometimes you have to take 1 step backwards to then be able to take 2 steps forward, rather than just staying stuck in the mud.

I didn't say do nothing if we don't draft one in the 1st and I"m not counting on a FA to magically become a franchise QB. But signing a FA to be our starter for the year and then re-address the next offseason would be FAR better than reaching on the wrong QB in the 1st this offseason. Feeling we HAVE to find our long term solution just because we need a new QB is how we got into this mess. We thought Two Gloves would be at worst an average level QB for a few years, that didn't happen, so we went out and traded for Darnold. That didn't work so we went out and traded for Baker, that didn't work so we went out and traded up to get Bryce. Our last 4 QB moves were all trying to force a solution, none of them worked out, and we're still trying to find Cam's replacement all these years later. We'd just have been better off spending a year or two building up the rest of the team and going year to year on FA QB's while doing so. I get it, it will be frustrating to deal with, but then when you find that actual long term solution, they plug right into an already built out roster and you're ready to contend immediately.

If you take a QB in the 1st and it doesn't work out, it absolutely sets you back 3-5 years unless you're so bad that you luck into another top pick in a good QB year and can replace them before that time period is up. Because if that doesn't happen, you end up with that QB as your starer for at least 3 years, even if you then replace them after that time, you generally have a year or two of growth with a new QB too. So yea, if you take the wrong QB in the 1st round, it's usually going to be a good 5 years before you have a chance to be a contending team again. And yes, I know that's not a hard rule that always takes place, but in 95% of the bad 1st round QB picks, that's the case.

Not against it, clearly, seeing as I'm one of the more vocal anti-Bryce guys on here. But I'm nowhere near saying that I'm "all in" on it at this point, for many reasons. Mainly because it's way too early to know where we'll be drafting, what QB's will be actually worth 1st round picks, and who might be there once we're on the clock. If there is a QB that makes sense, then yes, 100% I'm in. But reaching and taking the wrong QB will set us back another 5 years. We're not a piece or two away from contending, but I do think we have a lot of nice building blocks in place that if we go about things the right way the next few offseasons, we have a real shot at being relevant again this decade.

Literally never one time said Rico getting 200 wasn't good, but sure, why let facts get in the way of the narrative you want to spin. Go back and read the thread, I made it clear over and over again that I was talking about what I thought was poor play calling, because it was going to come back to haunt us against good teams. As I gave Rico the credit for the big day because he ripped off a handful of big runs, but on the whole, it was very poor and predictable play calling that entire game. Which is the same thing here but instead of the player overcoming it and having a big day because of a few extraordinary plays, they went the other way and crapped the bed. It's the literal reason I started that thread, to call out the continuing issue that myself (and many others) have been seeing and talking about for a while. That Canales has no idea what he's doing, everything is bland and predictable outside of his one surprisingly amazing play design/call per game (yesterday it was that 3rd and 5 run call for a 1st that nobody saw coming). But too many people just jumped all over myself and others for not "just enjoy the win" and now we have to sit through games like this. We've been sounding the alarm that this was coming for weeks, that our continues issues were going to rear their ugly head once we played the non worst teams in the league.

I literally said Dalton was terrible, I wasn’t defending him in the slightest. Solely pointing out that if he was THAT bad and still put up the stats he did today… shouldn’t Bryce be doing THAT much better if he is even remotely supposed to be our long term QB solution?

For as bad as Dalton was, and he was TERRIBLE... Bryce has only had a higher completion % in one game this year, by 1.3%, and had a 2nd that tied him. Bryce has only thrown for more yards in 3 of his 7 starts with 2 of those 3 being just 23 and 24 more yards. So all the people screaming how this game was proof that Bryce actually makes this team better is just nonsense, he got lucky in that we played some of the worst teams in the league during a stretch he was able to limit his turnover problems. This is why so many of us were calling out all the major problems we were still seeing, in particular with game planning and play calling, and not just going all goo-goo gaga over the team just because we won a few games. We didn't see any actual improvement in the key areas that would be needed when we stopped getting to play the worst teams in consecutive weeks. Bryce playing today might have meant we would have scored more than 9 points, we might have got to 20. But if we did, they wouldn't have pulled Allen when they did and they probably put up 50+

It has nothing to do with Fantasy, he's 10th in pass attempts but something like 27th in yards with the only players below him being QB's who haven't started 7 game this year. There is just flat out no rational way to say that is a good thing and he's playing well, those two stats are a terrible look when put together. His TD to INT ratio is "good" because he barely throws anything other than little dink and dunk passes. I'd be very curious to know what his TD to INT ratio is on passes that were more than 10 yards downfield, I'd bet it isn't near as good.

You had me until the literal last 2 words of this post favorable stats? Bryce is literally in LAST place in passing yards amongst the QBs who have started every week this season. But sure, I guess you could consider that "favorable"

On the Fantasy Football XM channel today, they were talking about injuries for each game and when they go to ours they asked how Bryce being out and having Dalton would affect the rest of our offensive players for fantasy. Each one of them said that it was probably better for our WRs that it would be Dalton instead of Bryce. I know fantasy isn't the same as real life football, but it's still a bad look when they all think our pass catchers are better off with Dalton than Bryce back there.

I just feel like TE is an excuse to the BPA rule, unless you really just have NOBODY at TE, which I personally don't feel is the case for us with the 3 we have right now. Even if you were to say a TE was our actual top ranked player on the board when our 1st round pick is on the clock, I can't see it being such a big gap between him and players at positions of more of a need to where it's then a dumb decision to not take the highest ranked player left on the board. Because yes, a game changing TE can really change your team, but at the same time, it also is the least important position in today's game, since realistically the best TEs are really just big WRs these days anyways, so if you have a good enough WR (and RB) room, TE becomes less of a need. I also think if Coker and Horn Jr pan out, XL could be used in more of a TE type of role where we line him up in the slot and hope to get favorable matchups against smaller DBs or slower LBs.

I mean, I obviously don't think it's impossible to find a Center outside of the 1st, in my last post I said that's what I'd be looking to use our 2nd round pick on this upcoming draft. And sure, if there is a TE there in the 4th or 5th round that we like, I'm not against taking them, but I also wouldn't consider taking a TE there "upgrading the position" in the sense we're talking about it here. That's a draft pick where it could upgrade the position, but not a concerted effort to upgrade the position, which are two different things. And that's my point... it's not about NOT upgrading the position, it's that I think we have potential at the position on cheap contracts for the next few years, and because of that, I'd personally rather use our 1st 3 draft picks and available cap room on other positions before considering a TE with them. With what we know right now, I'm ranking LB, DB, DE, Center, and backup OL as bigger needs than TE going into next offseason. Sure that could always change based on how our season finishes and/or who we sign in FA, but as of this moment, TE is not high on my list of upgrades for next year.

I'm not a need based guy, I'm very much a combination of need and BPA. But realistically, we have so many defensive needs next year (even with our defense playing better) that I can't see a situation where there is a TE available that is such a no brainer combined with a lack of defensive options that would be similarly ranked as BPA's. And no, I don't think the TE's are much better than they are, but I do think there is real potential in them, particularly as a group. I don't think we have the next elite TE who can do it all, but I do think between the 3 of them we have guys who can do everything we need from the TE position while we use our draft and cap assets elsewhere while we evaluate the TE position for another season. And yes, I'm hyperfocused on the 1st round in this situation as I very much think that even a TE drafted in the 2nd round... while they could end up being a stud for us and take over as our main TE at some point, they would start the season 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. Any team that doesn't already have a SB contending roster and is taking a Week 1 3rd string TE with their 2nd round pick would be utterly insane. And this of course comes down to who's available and what we do in FA this offseason, but personally, if I'm Morgan (or whoever the GM is next year), I'm going into the draft with Center as my main focus with our 2nd round pick.

You guys aren't following me It's not that 1st round TEs are guaranteed to be instant impact players and it's not that you can only find elite TEs in the first. But realistically, if a TE is expected to be a true elite player at the position, particularly as a rookie, they're going to be taken in the 1st round these days. I can't see a situation where in the 2nd round of the draft, there will be a TE there that would be expected to be an immediate and significant upgrade over what we have on the roster for next year already. Any TE taken there would go into the season expected to be a backup to the guys we already have (which sure, they could over take them and be our starter, but it would be more of a surprise than an expectation). If we bring in another TE for next year, they better be immediately slotted in as our #1 TE the second we draft/sign him or I don't see it as a worthy use of pick/cap. The only way I see us getting a known and immediate TE upgrade next year is to splash in FA or draft one in the 1st round. Because of that combined with the players who will be available in the 1st round at positions we have a greater need, i.e. LB, DB, and DL, I then don't see a scenario where taking a TE in the 1st round would make any sense either. But say we're picking at like 15 next year, a Bowers type of TE falls and it feels like any defensive player at that spot would be a real reach or not a good fit for our schemes. Then sure, I'd be open to considering it, I just find that to be highly unlikely of a situation to happen, hence my feeling comfortable with TE for next year and not wanting us to target it this offseason as of right now.

I wasn't saying that's the only way to get one. My post was in direct response to the "if you have the opportunity to get a game breaking TE, you take them" I was just saying that if you're taking a TE in the 2nd or 3rd round, you're just hoping they can become that game breaking TE. The ones that you KNOW will become that, are the guys like Bowers or Warren who go in the early 1st round. We just took mid round TEs that both show solid potential, I don't see how taking a TE in the 1st would make sense over the other available players. And taking one in even the 2nd or 3rd just seems like to big of a risk at that position when we have so many other needs.

It's not about taking TE off the board, it's that we have bigger needs at too many other more important positions, to where using our precious draft capital or cap room on improving the TE doesn't make sense this offseason, when we do have young guys who aren't bad and have real potential. TE needs will fall behind our needs at all 3 levels on defense and at least Center on offense. I just don't see any scenario where taking a TE in the draft or using cap room on one makes sense over those other positions when we have some real potential in our TE room on cheap contracts.

The only place a game breaking can't miss TE is available, is in the 1st round of the draft. Yes, you can hit on them from anywhere else, but even once you're in the 2nd round it's by no means a game changing TE that you're not going to miss on. So there's no way I'd be on board with a TE in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft either, not with who we already have. So, if we're sitting there in the 1st round next year, there is no way a Bowers type of TE falls to us while at the same time not having any other available players there at positions of a bigger need, particularly on defense. A game changing TE is obviously a great player to have, but it's also probably the least important position to have impact players at. Because of that combined with what we've seen from our guys who are all on cheap contracts for the next few years, I can't see any scenario where it would make sense for us to bring in any new TE's next year (outside of late season major injuries to where we obviously wouldn't have them next year, like Brooks this year).

This offseason, yes, because we have too many other needs to where it won’t be reaching for something else instead of a TE upgrade. If these guys were out of contract and it was extend them to bring in someone better, that would be a different discussion then. But we still need upgrades at every level of the defense, a long term center, backup OL, and maybe even WR depending how the year shakes out with XL and Coker. (all of the above is also ignoring the QB question that will still trump all else) I’d struggle to see a situation where a draft pick or FA signing makes more sense for a TE than the best player at a position we’re in worse shape at.

I'd say the exact opposite, they've shown me more than enough given their current contracts to say we shouldn't touch the position this offseason, and that every bit of cap room and draft capital we have should be spent on other positions that need upgrading. I'm not saying we're good with them for the next 5 years, but for next year, I'm good with those guys because of their contracts and all our other more dire needs.

I'd be shocked if we ever see another 5 man modern day HOF class if they continue with the new voting rules. It's the same reason I no longer think Smitty will ever make it, and the same goes for any other player that many view as a borderline candidate, just always going to be way many splitting of votes for those non 1st ballot guys, they may never get in. The 1st ballot and near 1st ballot guys will continue to get in, so someone like Kuechly is safe. But the guys who in the past would take 10 years to finally get in, they just will never have a fair shot again unless it's like Sharpe this past season and get put in by the veteran committee.

This is only the case for dumb people who try to compare modern day players to past generations in a vacuum and not smart enough to consider the evolving games. Real fans of the sports will understand you have to compare players statistics to those of their own generation, if they can't, then that's on them.