tukafan21

I'm not too concerned yet because so many teams want offensive minded HC's these days, much harder for the DC's to get the jobs. Plus he's probably at least 2nd in line for DC's to get a HC job, gotta think teams will go hard after Quinn again this year if they want to go the defensive minded route. We also badly need him to stay one more year before getting a HC job so that we get those two 3rd round picks for him, need to re-stock our draft pick shelves

There is also the 4th camp that I fall into I'm certainly not in the "this is fine" camp and I'm not in the "we don't know what this is yet" camp either. I wouldn't consider myself in the "this is a dumpster fire" camp either, because I expected struggles this year. I'm in the "depressed that my pre-draft fears are coming true and the trade was a terrible value for the risk but know Bryce can still always turn it around" camp. I still see potential in Bryce, you'd have to be blind/dumb not to, but my initial fears of him just not being big/strong enough to be elite in this league have come back with a vengance. You can't trade what we gave up to get him and he not be an elite QB, even a pretty good one isn't worth what we gave up. Again, we traded CMC, Moore, two 1sts, and one 2nd for Bryce, DJ Johnson, and a 5th. Until/unless Bryce leads us to a SB (or at least perennial contenders with him being the reason why) then I'll never be okay with the value we gave up for the risk on Bryce. And right now, with how the season started, it just has me frustrated, maybe with myself, because I let all the Bryce hype/talk push my initial concerns with him out of my mind for a few months only for them to come flooding back really quickly.

Yea... I hate this argument regardless of the player/position. The "well they did this against NFL level players in the SEC" is the most flawed argument ever. The SEC had 62 players drafted this year. From that, 20 of them came from Alabama and Georgia (10 each) with another 12 coming from Florida and LSU (6 each), with Auburn, Tennessee, and South Carolina having 5 each. I'm not going to go through each team and count out how many players were defensive, but obviously you can assume about half the players drafted were on offense, give or take. Then consider that there are a few more players who aren't NFL draft eligible yet and are already that good, plus others who will be good enough in a few years but aren't there yet. So realistically, outside of 2 or maybe a 3rd team in the SEC each season, most teams have either none or at most 1-3 NFL quality level players on their defense in a given season, and even then, it's what, maybe a 25% chance that they're even a player who would be a pass rusher? (when talking about Bryce "escaping tackles from NFL level players in college") Yes, the SEC is by far and away the best conference in college football and yes, it prepares you for the NFL better than others. But the "they did this against NFL level players in the SEC" is just a fallacy as they really aren't performing against NFL level players most of the time, just really good college players.

Well first, I can guarantee I'm not one of those people who only now hate the trade, I'm not going to bother trying to search for old posts of mine, but I guarantee you won't find a single post I ever made about being happy with it, I despised it from day 1. I can only think of one throw off the top of my head of his that really impressed me, it was the one this week where he was rolling out to his left near our own end zone and then quickly flipped his hips open to throw around the defender to the open WR, it was a really nice throw on the move and it stood out right away. I don't hate the kid or think he's a garbage player, I just never saw him as a high level NFL QB with today's game and where it's continuing to move towards. Everything keeps getting bigger, faster, stronger, which in itself does allow for more QB's like Bryce to come into the league, smaller mobile QB's who can make things happen outside the pocket. My issue with him has always been his size/strength as the smaller QB's who have been successful in this league are just built entirely different than Young. Guys like Brees, Wilson, Kyler, Hurts, etc, are all thick, stocky, strong, well built players, particularly their lower body, while Bryce just isn't built that way, he's just small. But all of that is why I hated the trade so much then and am just angrier now after my pre-draft Bryce concerns are showing, because I always felt the cost vs risk was so horrible and now that risk is looking even riskier.

I think what it is, is that a lot of people didn't want Bryce to begin with (let alone the trade). We have then been told by every coach, player, "expert", and fan that he has this super brain and was the most pro ready QB in the bunch and that he's exceeded all expectations. Then we see this........ So for people like myself, it's a flooding back of all our concerns over him in the first place, the things we've tried our best to ignore and get excited about Bryce ever since the pick was official, since he was then our QB and we want him to do well. Which is why I keep hammering home that I'm less upset about Bryce the player right now than I am about just getting re-pissed off about the trade, which is still so much worse than the Bryce pick because of the value vs risk being off the charts against us here.

His height has nothing to do with it, him and tons of other QB's his height have been just fine throughout the history of college football, and the linemen in the NFL aren't any taller than those in college, they're just better football players. When you're just talking about the ability to see his WRs due to his height vs the linemen height, the quality of the players in front of you makes no difference, so it's no different for him. I was never concerned about his height and I'm still not, it was always about his frame and overall strength

I can appreciate that, just hard for me to do with this one. For example, watching us lose every week in 2010 was so much easier to stomach and I never got angry during that season, because I knew at the end of that poo rainbow was going to be a high draft pick. This one hurts because we're terrible and there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, just more hurt.

If you're just watching someone throw such as in a combine or pro day type of setting, yes that's the case, but not in a game. Because it's never about pure arm strength anyways, it's about getting the ball to where it needs to be in comparison to the defenders, when the DB is able to close the gap because the ball takes too long to get there, it's clear as day and easier to see on TV since you can see the whole field at once.

I'd actually argue the opposite When you're in person in the stands, you can't see the whole picture as easily, where the QB is, where the WR is, where the DB is, and depending on your viewing angle, seeing the flight path of the ball can distort the velocity of the pass. But watching on tv, you can see the whole picture at once and see how quickly the ball closes the gap between the QB and WR, as well as see how quickly the ball gets there vs the DB closing on the WR.

That's one that I'm actually giving him a pass on, although it's definitely not the best look given his play so far, I actually think there is a decent chance that it was more on Sanders than Bryce They broke the huddle and as any good QB would do, he immediately started surveying the defense and making his reads and used his peripheral vision to know where Sanders was and just lined up next to him without looking for the Center. If you watch the replay, not only does Sanders push him into place, but he then also steps to his left, hence my point that he might have initially lined up too far to the right as well and Bryce just lined up the proper distance to his left while looking at the defense and not for the Center.

When like 80% of his passes are within 5 yards of the LOS, you could make the argument that his 67% completion percentage is actually too low. I'm not saying it is, just pointing out that using his completion % as a talking point to back him up isn't really fair when most of them are dink and dunk passes. His throws just don't have the necessary zip on them in today's NFL, I'd be pretty confident in saying he has the weakest arm strength of any starting QB in the entire league, that's not something you want to see in the #1 overall pick that we traded away the farm to get. And if part of his game is his escape ability, getting sacked by someone's finger tips grazing his shoulder pads isn't a ringing endorsement of that ability either. I don't blame people for trying to find some positives in his game, which even I'll admit, there are some. But his physical traits are NOT one of them, they're his biggest limitation, no question about it.

This all fell apart at "top tier QB talent" as I never once have thought Bryce was that, even at my highest point of optimism, it never reached that. He has a top tier QB brain, but not talent, significant difference between the two. I was hoping (and still do hope) that brain can overcome the physical limitations he has, and it's very possible that happens. But right now, his physical limitations actually look worse than I was even expecting, and that's not acceptable when we traded away everything we did to get him. It's risk vs reward and we took far too big of a risk given the limited upside of the reward.

Good for him, he's able to make his reads Doesn't mean poo if he doesn't have the physical abilities to make the plays. If only people could have seen him not be able to escape finger tip sacks and have the arm strength to make the necessary throws at this level.

What?!?!?! Being upset that we're not going to have our own Top 5 pick in a draft that will have possibly upwards of 4 or 5 QB's who could all go in the Top 10 of said draft is overvaluing it? That's absolute nonsense, just look at the value we gave up to move up to take a QB with serious question marks. Williams is widely viewed as the best QB prospect in a very long time, if we gave up what we did to take Bryce, if anything, i'm undervaluing our draft pick next year, not overvaluing it.

Right?!?! He's not a safety, he's not a NB, he's a LB who can be shifted around all over the field as needed on a per play call basis. His rookie year was about the only thing Rhule's staff ever got correct and he was looking like a future all-pro type of player. Ever since then, coaches have been trying to shove him into a neat little box and force him to play a position instead of just being a heat seeking missile out there attracted to the football. We will likely have too much cap space available this offseason to get comp picks in return if guys like Chinn walk as we're going to end up bringing in a couple decently paid FA's. So if that's the case and we're not going to try to actually use him, might as well try to get something for him now instead of having him on the sideline for 70% of the plays this year and watch him walk away for free in the offseason. At least Burns is out there on the field trying to help us right now, makes it at least easier to understand wanting to keep him around.

Totally fair I'm just a "what if" person in the back of my mind, and this entire season is going to be a bummer for me when with every loss I'll just be thinking, "what if we still had our first rounder next year and would be looking at Williams/Maye instead of having someone smaller than half the high school QB's out there" That sack he took where he was barely touched but just doesn't have the body strength to fight through it was exactly a fear of his size in terms of on the field and not even injury concerns. In today's NFL game, you can't have a QB who is sacked on plays like that, that's one that every other QB in the league would have shrugged off.

lol, you read my post wrong I've been the one telling people for the last 2 weeks that we'll easily be able to get 2 firsts for Burns, as worst case scenario we franchise tag him and someone will still sign him and get the 2 firsts that way, so someone will give that up at the deadline to get him to try and make a SB run this year. The, "won't get a first for him" was in regards to trading Chinn, who I really have zero interest in trading, I'd love to sign him to an extension right now and use him correctly. But the coaches seem to have no interest in doing that and I think some team out there might give up a 3rd rounder or something for him. I'd hate the trade, but it's better than only playing him 1/3rd of our defensive snaps and then watching him walk in free agency.

Oh, 100% But it just sucks to know that this all felt so obvious to so many fans, that we gave up far too much value in the trade to take a player who was going to have to become the biggest outlier in the history of the NFL at the QB position to be successful. We got fleeced, flat out, no way around it. Again, even if Bryce ends up an above average, or even a pro bowl level QB, we still gave up far too much value for the risk we were taking on. All we can do now is watch it unfold, but it unfortunately has sapped me of any optimism I have for this team for the next 2 seasons while we lose games and don't have our full compliment of picks to fix our issues with.

Need to trade Burns And honestly, he won't get us a first back, but at this point I'd probably trade Chinn as well. That one also has NOTHING to do with the player, but the coaching staff. They seem hell bent on not using him. What's the point in having a player with his versatility and talent to only have him on the field for 30% of the snaps?!?!?!?! Totally opposite of Burns, I want Burns here but feel like his trade value is what's best for this team. Chinn's playing ability is what is best for the team but the coaches seem to want to force him into being a slot NB only, which just makes no sense and is a waste.

Which again is why people like myself are saying Bryce can still end up being a good QB and it still be looked at as a terrible trade. It's basically the choice between having Bryce or having DJ Moore, maybe a pass rusher with this past year's first, maybe a CB with the other 2nd we traded away, taking Caleb Williams or Drake Maye in next year's draft, and then still having the 2025 2nd rounder as well. You can't look at things in a vacuum, it's the whole of the parts, and we just opened our brand new birthday gift only to find out that not only were the batteries not included, but it's also missing a few key components to the toy's ability to function as well.

Are any of the anti-Young people hoping he fails or finding any enjoyment in the last 2 weeks? I know I sure as hell am NOT This is miserable, there is no enjoyment, and I desperately am hoping for Bryce to make me look like a complete fool. But unfortunately all we've seen so far are the things those who didn't want Young felt were glaringly obvious flaws with him in the NFL. Mainly that he doesn't have the arm or body strength to be an elite QB in today's NFL game and that he's a walking injury concern. And I know I can only speak for myself, but I think others feel the same way... Which is that we're not really all that upset at the way Bryce has played, but we felt that we gave up way too much in the trade to take a player with those risks and we're seeing the worst case scenario play out with us giving the Bears a Top 5 pick in a QB loaded draft instead of just being patient for one more year like a SMART franchise would have done. The pro-Bryce people keep conflating our concerns with the trade with our concerns of Bryce, which don't get me wrong, we clearly have serious concerns with him, but they wouldn't be so bad if we didn't trade away our franchise's future to take him.

And the Chargers used their own 2nd round pick on him. They didn't trade away 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and their best offensive player for him. People need to stop pointing out the bad rookie seasons by HOF QB's, for every HOF QB that had a bad rookie season, there are a dozen others who had terrible seasons and crapped out. I'm not saying Bryce will crap out, but just trying to point to the few HOFers who went through this, is just dumb.

The problem is that the QB's who need to sit because they have to develop, they have to develop mentally. Bryce doesn't have that problem, he already sees the game like a vet, he just frankly doesn't have the physical traits needed to execute yet on this level. Can he get there? Maybe, but it's not something that he'll develop by mid-season his rookie year, it's going to take years for him to work on building his body up the right way and increasing that body and arm strength. So sitting him to start the year wasn't going to do anything, might as well toss him out there, his mental side of the game was always going to have to carry him over his physical. I think one of two things happen, either Bryce proves me wrong and he develops significantly over this year and the next couple and we' re-sign him. Or I'm proven right and he's just not an NFL QB and thus we end up putting ourselves into the Arch Manning sweepstakes in the 2026 draft (which while it would suck for the next few years, could turn us into a contender for a long time).

Not that the rest of the post was bad so I deleted it, but you had this in there at the end, and it was the most important part of it all. I think too many of the Bryce supporters are struggling to understand that the people upset right now, are upset about this. It's never going to be "did Bryce end up as a good player" as much as "did Bryce end up a good enough player to justify what we gave up, knowing we'd likely have ended up with one of the top QB's in next year's draft anyways." What we gave up to take a player with Bryce's limitations and risks was WAY WAY WAY too much and it significantly hurts our ability to build out around Bryce. Had we just had he #1 pick and took him (or the 2nd or 3rd pick and took one of the other guys) and we sucked this year, nobody would be as concerned as we'd be looking at it knowing we'd have a high pick next year to try and get an elite WR with (not to mention still having DJ, last year's second and the 2025 second). Bryce literally has to win us a SB for the trade to be considered a success, especially if there ends up being a couple great QB's in next years class. If we gifted the Bears one of those QB's with our pick and that QB ends up better than Bryce, only a SB ring will make that remotely acceptable. So basically we bet on Bryce being the biggest outlier in NFL history at the QB position because of his brain, not his physical ability... seems.... dumb.

Needing to sit Bryce the first half of the season would have made that trade so much worse than it already is. He was always supposed to be the most pro ready of any of the QB's this year, if you make that trade and take him, only to need to sit him at the start of the year, then it would be proof that he was the wrong player to take and you shouldn't have given all that up for him. I didn't want to make the trade up to 1 due to the cost, I didn't want to take Bryce once we made the trade, I tried to get my hopes up once we did take him and be optimistic about his "super brain" but his physical attributes have been so much worse than I ever expected. I'm not going to stop rooting for the Panthers, I'm not going to root against the kid, but I unfortunately have no optimism left at this point as I feel like this was all predictable. He's an elite QB brain in an average high school QB's body, that's not a good fit in the NFL. We let past screw ups at the QB position force us to make a bad trade because we thought we HAD to do it, but it would have just been smarter to use this season to build a good base with this new staff and then use our first rounder next year on a better QB prospect while keeping DJ and the rest of the picks.