tukafan21

Drafting T-Mac fixes almost all our WR problems, after that we just need to find that shifty quick twitch slot guy and we're set at WR for a number of years. T-Mac as the #1, XL as the #2, Coker and a quick twitch guy in the slot. That's a young core that has best WR room in the NFL type of upside.

And btw, the funny thing about possibly drafting either T-Mac or Graham... they grew up together and played for the same HS

Well first, it's not really fair to say the defense was bad even with DB in there, he played one game for us this year. But if we're at #5, it means one of the 2 QB's, T-Mac, Hunter, or Johnson would be there and I can't see any reason to take a DT when any of them are available. We take one of the 3 players or trade back for someone who wants one of the QB's, and that's how you pick up the extra 1st in a trade. Even if the QB's are gone and so is T-Mac/Hunter and for some reason we didn't want Johnson, you could still trade back to the 10-12 range and probably pick up another 2nd in that draft and probably another 2nd or 3rd in 2026 as well, which would likely be worth it. If we lose out, we're likely picking 4th at worst, if we win 1 more game, we still have a very real shot at picking #5 given the remaining schedules of all the teams in that range right now (they still play each other a lot and have to pick up wins because of it). The ideal situation would be we somehow end up with say the #2 or #3 pick and the Raiders end up #4. We swap picks with them while getting their 2026 1st so they can take one of the QB's, Hunter goes #3, and then we end up getting T-Mac at #4 while also picking up a future 1st. That is a very real possibility of happening if we lose out as the Raiders still play the Jaguars at home, and if we end with a tied record, we'll get the higher pick as they have a much tougher SOS. The Jags play the Titans twice, Jets, Raiders, Cots, if we lose out and they win just 1 of those games, we're probably picking ahead of them as right now they have the higher SOS. The Patriots actually might beat the Bills in the final game of the season as the Bills could be locked into the 2 seed by then and have no reason to play their regulars. If those things happen and we lose out, we're picking 3rd at worst. If the Raiders also beat the Jags out of that, we're picking 2nd behind the Giants. The Patriots losing out and taking T-Mac #2 instead of trading back with someone who wants a QB or taking an OL or Hunter is the big wrench in things. Besides that, losing out puts us in the driver's seat to take T-Mac, possibly even after a trade back as well.

When we drafted Luke, we already had Cam, Smith, Olsen, Stewart, Deangleo, Gross, Kalil, CJ, Hardy, Beason, TD, Gamble (and maybe more I'm forgetting), we had a lot of great pieces in place. Going pure BPA for a player with Luke's potential when the LB you already have is different when you already have all those pieces in place. Our OL right now is probably in a better shape than that team and our RBs and TE have potential compared to proven vets back then, but after that, the 2012 roster was in a far better shape than we are right now. We need a #1 WR, DEs, LBs, DBs, C, and depending who you ask a QB. Going BPA at pick #5 when that player is a DT and your current best player on either side of the ball is a DT, seems irresponsible. If he's the only player they like that high left, then you trade back and go with position of more need at a slot that makes sense for the player while adding other picks. If you trade back and he falls because other teams don't need/want a DT, then you consider him at that point because of the value.

Well for one, a big part of it being the worst unit is because the best player on the entire team has been hurt the entire season. The other is that we're lacking a top end edge rushing threat, adding Graham doesn't help there, there just isn't a Top 5 worthy edge rusher in this class. Yes, it would give us probably the best interior defensive line for the next decade and that would be cool to have. But I think we have far too many other holes that aren't already being somewhat patched up by the return of our best player healthy next season. If we miss out on T-Mac and could trade back while picking up an additional 1st in the trade, even next year, and get Graham, then I'd be much more on board. But even then, if we were to trade back, I think we'd be more in line to take a shot on one of the edge rushers. But for me, it's always going to be T-Mac over everyone else. We haven't had a true #1 WR since Smith and after QB and DE, it's our biggest hole right now. This not only solves that for the next decade, it solves it with a guy who is going to be a Top 5 WR in this league, don't over think it.

He hasn't caused any problems because Deion acts like he's another son of his and let's him do things that no other player in the country could get away with. If he was at any other school, he'd be just as good but he'd probably have a serious diva label on him, it's just ignored because the whole program is like that in Colorado. Deion catches him "stealing" shoes form his personal locker room and finds it hilarious and posts the video online for the world to see. He goes on podcasts during the season complaining that he's not the Heisman favorite, on his bye week he flys across the country to campaign for himself on the morning shows in person. You don't see that kind of stuff and see red flags for him when he's in the NFL and the HC isn't a man child surrogate father figure to him? He's also continuously said he expects to play both ways full time in the NFL, which if any team lets him do it, they're dumb and he's going to get hurt and/or struggle. Then if/when they don't and the team is struggling to score while he gets 5 gadget snaps a game, you think he's going to react well to that? Him and Shedeur have the biggest red flags for a first rounder since Manziel from that diva mentality standpoint, I'm not using a Top 5 pick on a CB that comes with that big of a risk when Johnson is an equal if not better prospect (and I've touched many times on never taking him over T-Mac as a WR either). And I've seen plenty of the "experts" who don't have him as the #1 prospect anyways. Many who do also talk about him as an "athlete" and that he'll be a CB who gets plenty of WR snaps as well, which again, I don't think is going to happen. The kid is an elite talent, it's why he was the #1 player in HS too, but at this point, he's just not the best WR and I don't think he's the best CB either (I do think he's 2nd). His past doesn't matter anymore. If you're taking a CB #1 overall or as the first non QB off the board, they have to be a STUD lockdown corner who might not even get many INTs because teams just won't throw that way, kinda like Revis or Asomugha at their peaks. That's not Hunter. I've likened him to Trevon Diggs, someone who is one of the better CBs in the league because he has the ability to lock his man down at times and makes a lot of great plays. But those great plays are because their game is predicated on taking risks, which in the NFL leads to giving up a lot of big plays as well. That's Hunter. If Hunter didn't take a snap on the offensive side of the ball, he'd be a great prospect and talked about as a Top 10 pick based on team needs for a CB. But he wouldn't be the #1 ranked prospect, he wouldn't be talked about as the first non QB to be taken. I don't see the few snaps you're going to give him a game on offense being worth jumping over better actual prospects at their positions while taking on the risks that come with him and the whole Deion world. That's what I mean by falling for the media hype, because I feel like the legend of Hunter has outgrown the real life NFL prospects Hunter.

Love the player, just not on a team who's best player is already a DT, for a team with as many holes as we have, that is just a poor allocation of picks/cap space to draft him right after paying DB.

You can see with this angle, he’s starting to lower his shoulder just as Lawrence initiated his slide, it’s real hard to not follow through with that hit with the speed these guys move at and not watching the play in slow motion So again, given his previous late hits, a suspension is probably warranted here, but if that wasn't the case, just getting tossed from the game probably would have been sufficient on this one. https://x.com/commishjared/status/1863303341201133601?s=46&t=LQU3yEizU6WVOcNoJTNyOw

It's not even as much as the "fake slide" argument as much as just the "late slide" argument in general, particularly with how fast these players move out there. When you're running full speed and know you're about to take 1 or 2 more steps before you initiate your tackle attempt, it's real hard to pull out of it when the QB slides at the last second. The game camera angle makes this hit look so egregious, but when you see the end zone angle from behind the defense, I'm much more sympathetic to it as you really see that he was really about to start his tackle when Lawrence decided to slide. This one I probably lean towards siding with the league because the defender was a repeat offender, but if I just saw that angle of the hit without that information, I'm not so sure I'd think a suspension was warranted, at least not a 3 game one.

The fact that you put any CB as the #1 overall prospect is just laughable That you compound the issue by not even putting the best CB in the draft in that spot just makes it worse. You do realize that Hunter literally isn't even a finalist for the Thorpe award that is given to the best DB in the nation, right? I would bet every dollar I have that Johnson will have a better career than Hunter and that T-Mac will end up better than both of them.

Right here you are LITERALLY saying he should be the top prospect because he is the best player in college football. He is LITERALLY not the best player in college football on either side of the ball, the ONLY reason he can be considered the best player in college football is LITERALLY because he plays both sides at a high level. He's not the best DB, he's not the best WR, he will NOT win the post season awards for best player at either position, he won't win the Bednarik as the nation's top defensive player. If you can't see how consistently calling him the best player in college football and using that as a reason for how you rank him, is explicitly using his 2 way play to justify your ranking of him, then that is a YOU problem.

You've brought up his 2 way play and doing things no college player has ever done, in every single thread about the draft. Don't try to say it's me who is pushing that agenda, that's just laughable. And he's not the best DB in the draft, he's the 2nd best behind Johnson, and that's not a knock on Hunter, saying he's not the best DB isn't saying he is a garbage player, he's still an elite prospect, just not as elite as others.

First, I disagree that he's the #1 prospect, I've said that numerous times, he plays 2 positions and he's not the best prospect at either of them. Second, you keep pointing to what he's doing in college about playing both ways as to a reason he's the #1 prospect, which again, as it's been pointed out to you numerous times, has ZERO bearing on his NFL prospects because he won't be a 2 way player. If someone isn't the best player at either position they play, why in the world should they be the #1 prospect in the draft? He's not a better CB than Johnson and he's not a better WR than T-Mac, so if you can't use his two way play as an argument (as he won't do that in the NFL), then why in the world should he be the #1 prospect in the draft? Do you not see why the math ain't mathing? And you keep saying all the experts rank him as #1, which just frankly isn't true, I don't keep notes of all the expert rankings, but a large number of them do NOT have him as the #1 prospect, for all the reason's I've stated. He's a generational collegiate talent, he's an elite NFL prospect, but he's not the #1 prospect at either position he plays. All 3 of those things in this previous sentence can be true, but you seem to think someone disagreeing with the last of the 3 is ridiculous because of the first two points. The fact that you can't separate those things and see them objectively, is why your opinions are invalid. You're the same person who screamed about Bryce being an elite prospect and drafting him would make us SB contenders last year, sorry if I'm not going to give you the benefit of doubt when it comes to your talent evaluations, especially when you keep pointing to his 2 way play in college when talking about wanting to draft him and ranking him #1 on your board.

That doesn't concern me as much with how few of those big bodies WRs there are in the NFL these days, at least of the elite WRs, most of them are more fast/quick than big. It's also why I want T-Mac so bad, he'd be a unicorn in this league right now with his size and skill combo. I actually think Hunter would make for a nice pairing with Horn because of that. Horn would be matched with the bigger/stronger WR of a team while Hunter would take on the speedier WRs. I see a lot of positives to drafting Hunter here, as a CB, but I see way too many downsides to want to take that risk with a pick we have to hit a home run with. I'm taking T-Mac and Burden over Hunter as a WR and I'm taking Johnson over him as a CB, 100 out of 100 times. Hunter is a legitimate generational collegiate talent, but the fact is that he's not the best prospect at either of his positions in this year's draft, combine that with other issues that come with him, and I'm just going a different way if he's on the board, let someone else deal with that headache that will follow him.

While this is true, I'm less concerned about him playing both ways from an endurance standpoint (although it's a very legitimate issue that would hurt him on both sides of the ball, especially late in the season). The real concern about him playing both sides is the physicality of the game at this level, especially with how slim his frame is, his career wouldn't last more than 5 or 6 years, if even that long. Playing 5 years full time on both sides of the ball is literally the equivalent to playing a 10 year career. If you think a 6'1" 185 lbs player can take the pounding of a 10 year career over the course of 5 years, stay healthy doing so, and still play at a high level for a number of years after that, then I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona. You can't take a player in the Top 10 of the draft (or really anywhere in the first round) if your plan is to use them in a way that will make it near impossible for them to play the length of a 2nd contract in the NFL. The only way he plays both ways in the NFL is as a CB who gets 5-7 snaps on offense a game, half of which would just have him out there as a decoy to try and take the defenses attention.

Even if he loses his explosiveness that he used to have, he'll still be an effective slot WR with his crisp route running. He basically would be a shorter Thielen who turns into a great possession slot WR who can be a safety valve for a QB. Whether he wants to do that is another question, you play RB your whole life, when you can't anymore, you might just want to retire and enjoy life being married to a model, wouldn't blame him. But even with the beating his body has gone through, I think he'd be a more than effective slot WR in this league for years to come.

No, I don't shade Hunter, you just are too balls deep into him that you think any criticism of his NFL prospects that aren't as the #1 pick in the draft, is an attack on him. I only go after people when they do exactly what you do when you talk about wanting him, you talk about his two way play, how he's doing something nobody has done, how he's going to win the Heisman, blah blah blah. None of those things have anything to do with projecting him in the NFL, which is why I go after you when you say it, because it's nonsensical reasons for wanting to draft a player. I point those things out and then give football specific reasons for why I don't want him, why I want someone else like T-Mac. If you want to go ahead and talk about Hunter's positives as a CB, you'd be making valid posts, but you don't, you just talk about the media superlatives that have literally absolutely zero bearing on what he'll be able to do in the NFL. And I've told you this, time and time again, but you still can't or refuse to see/understand it. It's not that hard, stop talking about wanting him because of what he's doing in college by playing both ways, he's not doing that in the NFL. Every time you talk about him being the best player in college, you lose any credibility in this discussion as the reason he's the best player in college isn't something that he'll be doing in the NFL, period. In fact, it's a very real and legitimate reason I do not even have him on my draft board. I think he's a CB in the NFL and if the team that drafts him is losing and struggling on offense, he's going to become a problem in the locker room when he feels like he needs to be used on offense because of it. It's a situation that I want no part of when you combine it with my fear about his frame holding up at the next level long term, as well as that I think WR is a significantly bigger need for us than a CB.

Uh, I've never once said he isn't winning it, that if he does, it would be because of his two way play, not because he's the best player on either side of the bal, because he's not. and honestly, I'd probably give it to Jeanty over Hunter as well. What Hunter is doing is crazy, but he's not playing on either side of the ball near the level that Jeanty is, nobody is, Jeanty is by far the most dominant player on either side of the ball in the nation. If not for Hunter, he'd be running away with the award this year, but in the end, I have a feeling Hunter wins.

Being the best player because you play both ways doesn’t mean jack squat for playing one side of the ball in the NFL. It’s literally the definition of irrelevant unless you actually think he can play both sides of the ball, full time in the NFL, and not have his body completely break down within a few years, and do it at an all pro level. Not all experts have him as the top prospect, in fact, many do not These are all facts you can’t debate, sorry. If you want to talk up Hunter’s NFL prospect, feel free, because he’s a Top 10 draft pick. But stop saying nonsense about winning the Heisman having anything to do with his projections and draft stock, because it literally means nothing, like literally NOTHING. If a scout or front office exec in an NFL team’s draft prep said, “but hey, he won the Heisman so we should rank him better or look at him differently” they would get fired on the spot.

Hunter isn’t winning the award because of his defensive play, it would be because of his two way play. Woodson had 12 catches for 238 yards that year, he won the award for his defensive play, not his two way play. I guarantee he won’t win the Bednarik as the nations best defender, something Woodson won. The point was you made the argument of “winning the college MVP means nothing?” And you’re helping prove my point here, he’s winning it for his two way play, not his play on a single side of the ball. He’s going to play a single side of the ball in the NFL, so no, winning that award means nothing for his NFL projection as he’s not winning it for what he’ll do in the NFL. He’s not the best CB in college, he’s not the best WR in college, so why do you want to draft him over those players who project as better NFL players at those positions?

Maybe as a RB, but I always said that when his RB days are behind him, he’s going to turn into a great slot WR and stick around in the league well into his mid 30’s

Exactly what you just said is my point though, you've seen him "layer it all over the field" He can't drive the ball the way even average NFL QB's are able to do. It limits the routes you can run, it limits the throws he can attempt and make, and it can lead to turnovers if he tries the throw and the defender is easily able to jump it. I'll admit he's been playing better the last few weeks, but it's been against some of the worst pass defenses in the league and he still hasn't even been lighting it up, he's just looked competent. Looking competent this late into the 2nd season of the first overall pick isn't a good thing. We know what he is and what he isn't, get what we can, cut bait, call it a day.

Bryce just doesn't have an NFL arm, everything else aside, that will always limit what a team can be with him as their QB. His max upside if everything goes perfectly for him is like 25th best QB in the league, why continue to hurt the development of the rest of our offensive skill position players with a guy with a noodle arm who is never going to be an even average QB in this league? Trade him for the best offer, whatever it is, and move on from this awful trade/pick. Just of guys who should be playing for more than the next 5 years, he's not going to be better than Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, Love, Tua, Stroud, Purdy, Dak, Kyler, Baker, Lawrence, Williams, Daniels, Nix, Jones. That's 18 better than him right there and it doesn't include Richardson, Darnold, McCarthy, or Penix who could all easily be better than him. It also doesn't include guys like Stafford, Wilson, Cousins, Geno, or Rodgers who are starters but likely not more than 5 years from now. What's the point in hanging onto a player like that with such a low ceiling and a floor so low that hurts the development of the rest of the young players, when we might be able to get a halfway decent trade package for him this offseason?

For us right now this season, Bryce. Who would I want as our QB1 next year? Jameis, 100% without a shadow of a doubt in my mind. I want to see us compete this year and grow, but I still want us to lose out. It's what is best for the future of the franchise, we need to get the best draft pick possible right now. If we win a meaningless game or two, we could fall from picking at worst at #5, probably 3 or 4, to falling all the way back to as low as 12ish. Jameis could get us that extra win or two that Bryce might not. Next year is about building up our players, particularly our young offensive weapons in XL, Coker, Brooks, and Sanders (hopefully T-Mac too). Jameis is a PERFECT QB for a team in that situation. For as weird as he is, he's a pretty good leader, which is needed with such a young team like that. He's also fully capable of making every throw possibly needed and isn't shy to let it rip. Sure he will lose you games with his interceptions and some bad decision making, but he's going to pepper our young players with targets at every level to help them speed up their growth. His blowing of games with bad throws won't hinder the development of our weapons, it will just cost us games. Then depending how the season goes, you either go all in for a long term QB solution or do it for a second season so you have a ready set roster loaded with weapons and just need to slot in a QB. If you do that for 2 years with Jameis to build up those young guys, you'd have XL, Coker, Brooks, Sanders all going into year 4 and hopefully T-Mac going into year 3. Spend the bulk of our cap space and draft picks on defense over those 3 offseasons and that is a SB caliber team right there that just needs a QB. That's when you make an all in trade like the Rams did for Stafford or Jets with Rodgers (albeit don't do it with a 40 year old). Or you give up whatever it costs to move up in the draft to get one of the top QB's in the class. Or you bring in a Free Agent like Russell who would thrive with a weapon set like that and if you've spent the 3 years building up the defense, that team is going to be in the SB discussion from week 1. If you're at a rock bottom place, like we are, this is how you build a SB contender in this league from that position. It's never going to be a quick fix with this many holes, you need to take a look at the long game. It's what the Lions did (albeit thinking Goff was their Jameis before he turned into their real guy) and they're now looking like they could be one of the best teams for a number of years. They built up their offense through the draft and FA from 2020-2023 getting Amon Ra, Jaemo, Gibbs, Laporta, and their whole OL except for 1 vet OT for a few years while their defense struggled. Then they spent a lot of draft capital and cap room on the defensive side of the ball over the last 2 offseasons. Sound familiar? That's basically what we just started doing this past year, so let's see it out. One more offseason of adding an elite offensive weapon (T-Mac) and then spend the rest on defense. Bring in a strong armed QB who might cost us games in the W/L column, but will speed up the development of our weapons, then go all in for the QB with a SB contender built out. I get that fans won't like losing games for a couple more years, but it's how you properly build up a franchise from the bottom.