tukafan21

You realize it's okay to just admit you said something wrong, right? I'm not saying you are forced to come around on drafting T-Mac or even liking him as a prospect. But it's okay to just be like, "you know what, you're right, I didn't know that about that particular game, so my post insinuating that Hunter shut him down there was wrong, but I still don't like him as a prospect and/or drafting him at #8." I could have just responded with the stat line from the previous season when T-Mac had a great game against them/him, but instead I took the time to actually explain why what you said wasn't correct, because no matter how you slice it, that's just the case. Hunter barely played that game, so insinuating that he shut T-Mac down is just flat out incorrect. But you just want to dismiss me as the crazy T-Mac fan, instead of just being like, "my bad, you're right on this one" I'm not even saying T-Mac didn't have a poor game that week, it happens to all players, no big deal. But yea, when people say or imply dumb things that are 100% contrary to realities, I'm going to call them out every time.

So, you make a post that is completely and 100% ignorant of the facts, I point out those FACTS, and you want to say it's just "excuses"? What is the excuse? That Hunter barely played in that game so clearly, he didn't shut T-Mac down? That you pulled out a stat line from a game where Hunter barely played, while I pulled out a stat line from a game where he played the whole game and T-Mac put up great numbers, including a TD in a 1 on 1 coverage by Hunter? And hell, ALLLLLL of that aside, you're basically implying that one bad game, even if it was against the #1 ranked corner in the draft who shut him down (which again, wasn't the case as he barely played) would out weigh the fact that he put up elite stats over the course of his career? Do you not see how crazy that sounds?

See, I'm glad when people say things like this, because it shows they don't have a clue, for multiple reasons, classic case of cherry picking box scores and not anything else. The first and main thing being that Hunter barely played in that game this year, he was already dinged up going into the game and I can't remember if he played in the 2nd quarter of that game off the top of my head, but I know for a fact he didn't play a single snap in the 2nd half. While at the same time, T-Mac also didn't play much in the 2nd half of that game either, because it was out of hand. The 2nd is that box score analysis like this is then ignoring when he put up 9 rec for 107 yards and a TD against Colorado and a healthy Hunter in 2023. And even then, while I'll openly admit I don't know off the top of my head how many of those 9 catches came against Hunter in coverage, I know for a fact that the TD was a red zone TD against Hunter in 1 on 1 coverage against him. And also, all of that aside, none of it really matters because individual box score hunting is pointless without going back and watching every snap from the game. I do remember our offense was an utter mess that game, so there is a very good chance his poor stat line in that game was more on the coaches and QB than anything T-Mac, Hunter, or anyone else on the defense did that game anyways. It's weird that people want to pull out of context game log lines like that, but just want to ignore that over his 3 year career, he put up true elite stats, broke basically all school receiving records, had numerous great games against good teams, etc, etc, etc.

People make those comments about me every time T-Mac comes up in a thread. I'm not above being able to laugh at myself and make a joke at my own expense, if that's "weird" then so be it.

uh oh, looks like HE showed up, glad I was in before then

Exactly Everyone wants speed at WR because we don't have it right now, but just because you want speed, doesn't mean EVERY prospect we look at there needs to be a burner. You can find speed at other places in the draft or FA, but guys with T-Mac's size, hands, and catch radius just don't come around often. Those things make him more of a unicorn than speed would, there is only one Tyreek Hill in the league, the other FAST players aren't quite like him, but there are still far more FAST players in this league than guys like T-Mac. If you need a player like T-Mac to also have track speed, then you're never going to be happy. There's been 2 of those guys in NFL history, Calvin and Moss, so sure, let's poo on T-Mac because he doesn't have the speed of maybe the 2 best WRs of all time. We have Thielen for this season, but there isn't a current WR on the roster who you can pencil in as a guaranteed starter in 2026, passing on a guy like T-Mac when that's our WR room is just insane to me. Sure, we see some potential in XL and Coker, but both are closer to being JAGs than true #1 or even #2 WRs as of right now. T-Mac gives us a #1 for the next decade, I don't understand how people are willing to pass on that because he isn't a track star, particularly when our QB doesn't even have the type of arm to properly and fully take advantage of that type of speed anyways.

So, you just want to add to the controversy with this post as well? Because it's not correct either, as some had him timed as fast as 4.46. There were 40 scouts there apparently, so yea, when they're all hand timing him, it's going to give you a wide range of possible times, but in the end, 40 times don't matter anyways. Running a 4.46 or a 4.58 is basically all the same when his game isn't predicated on speed. He has more than enough speed given all his other attributes he brings, which is all that matters in the end. No, he's not a track star, but his size and hands are both 99th percentile amongst NFL WRs. Which is why I don't get all the fan hand wringing over his speed, because it's just ignoring the things he can do that almost every other WR in the NFL can't do.

In before THAT guy shows up

He only has 1 season of real playing time, doesn't have a natural position, is too much of a pass rusher to be a true linebacker but isn't big enough to be a true edge rusher. He's a project, no if's, and's, or but's about it. Just the fact that some people on here view him as a ILB and others as an edge rusher, says a lot about him being a project. If you don't fit into a true position at this point (Hunter aside as that's totally different), you're a project, period. He absolutely could turn into a solid player, but of all the guys we're talking about at 8, he's probably the least likely to make an immediate impact next year, namely because there isn't a natural fit for him yet.

I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest fallacy in this years draft that our fans seem to fall into. There are maybe 3 defensive guys ready to make a serious immediate impact as rookies at the top of this draft, and none of them are likely to be there for us (Carter, Hunter, Graham). And, if any of them do fall to us, it would be Graham, which I just don't love taking a DT at 8 when the best player on our team currently plays the same position. This isn't even a post about taking my guy T-Mac, it's just that people seem to think we're going to improve out defense this year by drafting defensive players, which just isn't going to happen unless we get lucky and hit on those 2-4 round guys that end up exploding as rookies each year and we end up with 2-3 starters from those picks. Defensive rookies take longer to make an impact, and that's before even considering that there just won't be any true blue chip prospects for us to take at 8 anyways. The guys we're looking at, like Walker, are more raw projects who need to be coached up that will make an impact in a couple years than in 2025. If people want to draft defensive players, so be it, but please stop talking about it "fixing the defense" by doing so. You can build up a defense much faster (and better) through free agency than the draft, particularly as that's the side of the ball you find better FA's because teams prioritize locking up their offensive players first, and thus quality defenders hit the FA market every year because of it.

I'm not so sure about that, of all his draft picks, Burns was maybe the only "project" of the bunch. He seemed to take guys who produced in college at a high level over the prospects who may have had only 1 year of production like with Walker.

T-Mac was 5th in the Big 12 in YAC, because he’s also really good at taking screens and short slants for solid gains. And no, we don’t need an over the top guy, because Bryce doesn’t have the type of arm that takes best advantage of that speed. But you know what would pair well with Bryce’s arm strength and talent? An elite deep jump ball guy and someone with glue for hands and an absurd catch radius where a precision touch passer can put the ball where nobody else but him can get to it. If people want to build around Bryce, we should play to his strengths, and that’s giving him a Mike Evans, not a Tyreek Hill. Which isn’t to say we don’t still need speed, we can find speed in a slot guy too, but T-Mac is a great fit with what Bryce does well.

During the Golden part of the video? I'll be honest, I only watched the T-Mac part, but it started off with Palmer saying he's the #1 on almost every board and asked Smitty if he has him #1 as well and he said that he was his #1, but that he might not be the 1st drafted.

Maybe, but he also clearly said that T-Mac is #1 on his board too. Guess maybe I wasn't thinking about that board being the consensus and not his own, so maybe he has Golden #2 and it was his way of saying if a team falls in love with Golden and someone trades up for a QB or TE so T-Mac falls a few picks, that team will take Golden anyways because they fell in love with him and didn't do their homework on T-Mac because they didn't expect him to fall to them. But still, it was just a really weird way to explain it

He'd have been in contention with Odunze to be the 3rd WR taken, definitely would have gone before Brian Thomas Jr (and yes, I know how amazing of a season he had, but he wasn't a can't miss prospect, he had the season MHJ was supposed to have).

Okay, just watched the video now, and I've just gotta say, I love Smitty, but he said one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in a draft projection. He said T-Mac was the #1 WR on his board, but that he could see a scenario where he wasn't the 1st WR taken, which sure, totally fair thing to say Steve, let's hear your explanation for why.... "If someone moves up to get a QB or TE, I can see Golden moving up to be the #1 guy" Wait... what?!?!?!?! If someone trades up to get a QB or TE, you think that will then cause your 4th ranked WR to be the 1st WR taken in the draft?!?!?! I'm sorry, but that is the most asinine explanation for where players will be drafted ever, I honestly don't understand that logic, at all, and it has nothing to do with my guy. Those names could be John Doe and John Smith, and if he says his 4th ranked WR will be drafted 1st because an extra QB or TE was taken due to a trade, I'd be saying the same thing, lol.

There are generally 3 things that can make a player great, being a superior athlete, having unprecedented work ethic/effort, or being extremely fundamentally sound. The elite players who become that due to their work ethic and/or being a superior athlete, generally end up as poor coaches and/or talent evaluators, because the things that made them great can't be coached or easily seen on tape. I'm not saying Steve is right or wrong on T-Mac or any other player, but he is very similar to Jordan in that their athletic ability and their drive to win is what made them greats, and it's also what makes them struggle at talent evaluation. As others have said, he's been right and wrong before, sometimes badly, so I don't really put much stock into his prospect evaluations one way or the other, Panthers GOAT or not.

And other teams allegedly had him faster than that too, but you already know this too, it just doesn’t fit your narrative of him, so let’s ignore that too.

That was just 3 of the 40 teams, some had him as low as 4.46 https://x.com/_ryanfowler_/status/1901696729491083466?s=46&t=LQU3yEizU6WVOcNoJTNyOw Either way, just as I’ve said all year, he plays with more than enough speed for someone of his size, even the low end of those timings is faster than the plodding big man people on here seem to perceive him as.

He just ran a 4.48 at Arizona’s Pro Day, he’s not trending towards the back half of the first round, stop with that nonsense

Even if that were true (and I don't think it will be), the difference between T-Mac and the guys before him that you're referencing, is that he has hands of glue, all those other big bodied WRs we've had over the years that failed, didn't. So even if he struggles to create much separation, his big body and his hands will let him make plays that those other WRs couldn't. I think that's what people seem to forget when looking at him, that he's not KB, or Funchess, or XL, or whoever. He's a guy who has EVERYTHING, except top end speed and quickness. There are very few WRs who truly have it all, in fact, their names are Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss, pretty much almost everyone else had something they were missing, whether it was size, or speed, or hands, or route running, etc, something wasn't ELITE. Which is why I've said his absolute floor is as about the 25th best WR in the league. Because if he never improves upon his speed/quickness one ounce at the next level (which seems unlikely anyways), he's still going to be a more than useful low end #1 or high end #2. He'll be a red zone threat, a downfield jump ball guy, and someone to make the contested catches in the middle to move the chains. Basically, he's Mike Evans, the guy he's most compared to. Evans isn't some elite separator, he doesn't have burner speed, but all he does is compile stats and score TDs because he's so good at making contested catches. Evans has a little more bulk on him, but T-Mac is a little more athletic, in particular making guys miss and getting more YAC. Which is why I see him as a perennial Top 10 WR and someone who will be challenging to be considered a Top 5 WR in his prime. I just went and looked out of curiosity.... In their full college careers, those 3 guys had... 1,715 yards in 3 seasons for Funchess, 1678 yards in 5 seasons for XL, and 1,506 yards for Benjamin in 2 seasons. T-Mac has 1,402 and 1,319 in each of his last two seasons after 702 as a Freshman for 3,423 yards in 3 years. I think the Panthers fans who are concerned about T-Mac are more afraid of our past with big WRs and just forgetting that T-Mac is just on an entirely other level than any of them were.

Except I still think he ends up turning into a slot WR to extend his career well into his mid 30's. He keeps his body in amazing shape and he's savvy, he could very well turn into a true elite slot WR from 30-35 and be a difference maker on a contending team because of it. It's why I always hated trading him, because I think he'll have that 2nd life in the NFL after his RB days are behind him. He basically would turn into what Deebo has been for them the last few years, except I think he'd do it even better.

We need to stop taking WRs in the 2nd round, think we'd have a much better chance on hitting on a defensive player or maybe a Center in the 2nd. If we're drafting WRs, it should be a high 1st rounder or wait until the 4th to take flyers on the smaller quick twitch types and hope that pans out. Just far too many 2nd round WRs that don't pan out these days, especially when we're drafting them.

I get the TD's and I pointed it out, but like I said, when Burrow had more than double the TD's than Geno had, I think Higgins increased TDs compared to DK was more a product of Burrow and the Bengals offense than because of him vs DK as WRs. When one of their QB's finished 4th in MVP voting despite missing the playoffs and the other was just traded for a late 3rd round pick and replaced by Sam Darnold, I think that's a tough narrative to brush aside to just look at raw stats as well. Again, swap DK and Higgins last year, do you honestly believe DK wouldn't have put up better stats than Higgins did? Contracts and trade compensation aside, I'm taking DK over Higgins 100 out of 100 times, there is no debate about it for me.