tukafan21

No, they have a QB better than anyone we've had since before the Steelers game where Cam got hurt.

I wish there was a way to see what all these posters who are excited about this win (and the Cardinals win) were saying 3-4 years ago when we were winning those meaningless late season games. I'll bet they were saying the same thing, "this is how you build a culture" and "it's going to carry over into next year" and "blah blah blah" That to me is why I don't understand all the hate I get for taking this stance, it's not like we're some new franchise that has never gone through this before. We've been doing it for YEARS, we win these meaningless late season games, a group of fans think it's the start of a turnaround of the franchise, but all it does is hurt our ability to draft better players and we rinse and repeat the next year. I don't take joy in saying this stuff, but I just call it like I see it. Yes, Bryce played better the last 2 months, but there are still at least 20 QB's that I'd take over him in a heartbeat right now. You're not going to ever contend in today's NFL with a QB who is outside the Top 20 in the league, it's just the way the game is played these days. Getting excited about possible mediocrity just because we've been garbage for so long is now how you build a winning franchise, it's how you get stuck in NFL purgatory, and I'm sick of being stuck there.

I saw the other day that Ben Johnson would have been very interested in the Patriots job if it opened up. Them winning and then firing Mayo puts them in a great spot to hire Johnson and then draft T-Mac to give him a great QB/WR combo to work with.

Getting the 1st pick probably would have actually meant we got about the 5th pick, a 2026 1st, another couple picks in the 2-4 rounds, and possibly even a 2027 1st as well. But sure, these two OT wins and the 8th pick will help us win games 3 years from now more than all of those draft assets would have

Hope those 5 TDs keep you all nice and warm and fuzzy inside 2 years from now when we're finishing up yet another losing season for however many years in a row it will be by then and complaining that we're going to either overpay Bryce or need a new QB again

Yea!!!! We won yet another meaningless end of season game that hurt our ability to draft a better player next year. Honestly, we do this every single fuging year and the fans somehow never learn. How many times do we have to do this before the fans start to realize it's a vicious cycle that you can't break until you embrace a rebuild? Again, 2 OTs just dropped us from 1st to 8th in the draft. Which in the end, probably cost us an additional 1st round pick, maybe a 2nd First, and probably a couple of other middle round picks as well as we'd have been able to trade back. In no world is that worth the 2 wins that do nothing but provide a temporary enjoyment for those too shortsighted to see how it's not a good thing for us.

I don't care that this will get poo all over, but I called this before we even took him and I'm now even more confident it will be the case... People need to stop getting excited about a guy who has a max potential of maybe the 20th best QB in the league and doesn't have the arm talent to will your team into contention every season. It's the definition of QB and NFL purgatory and how you get stuck drafting in the 12-15 range every year with no shot at ever actually being a contender. Poo away on this post all you want, but it's true and everyone getting all excited over Bryce rigth now better not complain 3 years from now when we still suck because Bryce just isn't that guy. 2 OT wins in the last month of the season cost us the #1 overall pick, as that's where we'd be if we lost both of those games. Hope that temporary moral boost is worth it

When the patriots beat the bills (which I called like 3 weeks ago), that Cardinals win is going to end up costing us the #1 pick in the draft. But sure, go on telling me how that one win is going to help this team in the future because it helped build a winning culture.

Nah, he's too good of a backup If Bryce falls flat on his face next year, we're going to suck and we need to just embrace it, play him all year long and be in a position to draft his replacement with that high 1st round pick he'll lead us to. Dream scenario is Ben Johnson goes back to the Lions for another year for some reason... We draft T-Mac... We're awful and get the #1 pick... Then we sell the Manning family on hiring Ben Johnson and have a potential wild offense with Johnson leading Manning, T-Mac, XL, Coker, Sanders, Hubbard, Brooks. Yea I like what we see from Canales so far, but the above situation could set us up for an amazing 10-12 year run

It's equal parts about Bryce as well as about Lebron, no Arizona fan is expecting him to be playing meaningful minutes anytime soon, he doesn't even start for his HS, he needs time to develop and the family knows that too. But Bryce is good friends with a few other Top 10 recruits in this class that we're in the running for, one of whom is also signing with Lebron's agency too. So this one is less about getting the Lebron connection as much as taking Bryce as a developmental project will likely help us land 2 or 3 other 5 star recruits (Koa Peat, Brayden Burries, Alijah Arenas). But yea, getting Lebron in the fold of supporting the program isn't going to hurt either, especially as it's likely to lead to an increase of NIL funds, possibly directly from Lebron if he wants to help his son be on a winning team. And with scholarships increasing next year to 15 per team, there is no downside in taking someone like Bryce, even if "overrated" because it's going to benefit the program in a number of other ways.

Hot Take.... Bryce is going to bring so much attention and money into the team that it's going to help land great players because they are going to want to join him. Oh... wait... this is a thread about Bryce Young for the Panthers... my bad ya'll, I'm still riding high on Bryce James committing to my Wildcats today. Guess @CamWhoaaCam is about to become a huge Arizona Basketball fan now too, we all know how much he loves son's of HOFers on Big 12 teams, LOL

If you think Bryce has the ability to fire the line drive rope throws that someone like Jameis or Wentz can throw, then I have some Arizona beachfront property to sell you. Bryce has to have a perfectly clean pocket to step into and make a perfect throw to get the ball 50 yards down the field, at least 20 other starting QB's in this league can make that throw off base and with just the flick of a wrist. If people want to believe Bryce can still be a good QB in this league, that's their prerogative, I'd disagree, but people can still think it. However, even those people have to understand and admit that he just doesn't have even an average starting QB arm for the NFL. Short of him starting to take steroids and bulk up like crazy, he'll always have one of the weakest arms of all starting QB's in the league, and that's not debatable.

I think if the Raiders can trade only their 2026 1st in addition to this year's first to get into position to get their QB, they'd do it in a heartbeat given all their QB issues over the years. Which is why I'd love to just be one pick ahead of them, so we still get whoever we would have taken without a trade back and pick up that extra 1st. But I don't think anyone is going to be dumb enough to give up a haul like we did for Bryce, it was too much then, it would be too much now. A single future 1st round pick though, that seems much more reasonable.

The alternative is you understand Bryce isn't the future AND that this team isn't a QB away from contending anyways. You trade Bryce for whatever the best offer is for him this offseason then go and sign someone like Jameis or Wentz this offseason to be the starter next year. Both are going to end up costing your team wins, it's they're not starters anymore, but they both have big arms and aren't afraid to sling the rock. It will help our young offensive weapons grow as they'll get tons of targets from all sorts of routes, but yes, they're likely to cause us to lose a lot of games, which is fine as it's a QB loaded draft next year, where we then draft a QB with our 1st rounder. Fans won't like it next year while we're losing, but the reality of the situation is that it's the fastest way to get us back on the right track towards having a contending team again. If we luck out and get the #1 pick and get Manning, then we could have a really bright future too.

No, still at 6th With a loss next week, the lowest we can be is 7th given the SOS's of the teams we're tied with, highest we can get to is 2nd. Even with a win the most we can fall is likely 9th as (not sure our SOS can rise enough to catch the Saints to fall to 10th) I think the best outcome for us is we lose along with wins by the Jets, Jags, Giants, and Titans (possible with the Jets getting Miami maybe without Tua and the others playing teams with nothing to play for). That puts us 3rd behind the Patriots and Browns with the Raiders behind us at #4. Then one of the two teams ahead of us fall in love with Hunter and take him, the other trades with the Giants to take a QB. We are then able to leverage the threat of a trade to someone like the Titans or Jets and get the Raiders to give us their 2026 1st (and maybe more) to swap picks with us so we can still take the player we want and add draft capital at the same time.

Dude, you were literally one of the people the last couple years talking about how winnable our division is because of the QB and HC situations for each team and that it should have made us an attractive option for the HC/QB candidates out there. Now because it doesn't fit your narrative (your love of Shedeur and him going to the Raiders), you're arguing that players shouldn't factor the division into their decision making. You can't have it both ways. And even then, this is just a bad take on your part saying all the Chargers/Broncos have is young QB's. As they also have great HC's who have a proven track record of winning and winning championships. While both will also be playoff teams this year as well. Just because the Raiders have Bowers, doesn't mean the team is in any position to contend in that division any time soon. Just having 6 of your games against those other teams is a huge hinderance in making the playoffs. So if Deion and the family are sitting back and looking at what places would give him a better chance at long term success, it's not going to be the division with the best HC/QB combo situations in the NFL. If Nix pans out (and it's looking like he should), that division is going to be BRUTAL for the next 10 years, they legit could have the best QB in the game, another Top 5 QB, and then wherever Nix ends up as.

I think the two New York teams would be the top 2 destinations for Shedeur in Deion's mind, especially of the teams who are needing new QB's right now. I think the NYC market would be so appealing for the Sanders family, if you can bring a SB to either NY team, you become a legend and have endless marketing opportunities. I know they seem to love the idea of him playing for the Raiders, but honestly, that is probably the worst situation any QB or HC should want to be in right now. That's a division where the other 3 teams have 2 sure fire HOF coaches and a 3rd who just won the NCAA NC and has been to a SB, as well as maybe the best QB ever in his prime, and two other great young QB's (I really like what I've seen from Nix this year). If the Raiders didn't have all that in their division I'd get the appeal, but the Raiders are so far behind those other 3 teams in the division, it's just not a situation I'd want to be drafted into if I'm a QB right now.

I don't think they're going to be #1 anyways, I think they beat the Bills who have nothing to play for next week. But I doubt any team is giving up a huge haul for either of these QB's, it basically is 2023 all over again and whoever is #1 would need a sucker out there like we were who makes a bad trade, not sure it's going to happen again without us in the running to be said sucker.

I'm long on the record as saying I don't think Shedeur is that guy, but he's still going Top 10. Because the Giants are taking a QB if either of those two are available, and then if either are available for the Raiders, I can't see them passing on either of them as well. There are still other teams like the Titans or even the Jets to take one if they're sitting there too. If Deion wasn't his dad though, then I could see it being like the Pickett year, but the Deion shine with be too bright for many to see through in the end.

What kind of math did you use to get there? Patriots and Jags = not QB needy Browns just restructured Watson, guaranteeing he'll be there next year too Leaves only 2 QB needy teams ahead of us, assuming the Titans move on from Levis this offseason and don't want to give him one last shot.

Yep, and the Jets played them, problem is they also played the 49ers, so a Lions win tomorrow would help the Jets there too. It's going to come down to the game tonight, if the Falcons lose we'll likely keep the 6th pick even after the Lions beat SF since it will add only 1 win but 2 losses to our SOS, but if the Falcons win I'm guessing that bumps us back to 7th for now.

Well something in one of the afternoon games caused the Jets SOS to jump a bit, we're now back in the 6th spot for the time being... but yea, we'd be 2nd right now if not for that win last week

In theory this makes sense, but not in reality. Because the reality is that the players and coaches on those bad teams are also playing for either their current jobs or auditioning for new ones the next year as well. So when both sides are really auditioning for next year, advantage goes to the bad starters who are still better players than the backups. Ownership and front office members who know they will be back the next year are the only ones who want them to lose for the draft positioning. So unless they go to the coaches and say, "your jobs are safe for next year, so please try to lose this game to help yourself with a better draft pick" then the bad teams are usually in a better spot to win those type of games.

Yes and no No, don't do it with any of the picks in the first 4 rounds, let those chips fall. But I'd be all for using all of the 5th round and later picks to get additional 3rd and 4th rounders which have a better chance on hitting. I'd rather have 2 more late 3rds or early 4ths than have the 6 picks in rounds 5 and 7. 11 rookies aren't making the Week 1 roster anyways, I'd package them all up for whatever we can get in the 4th round or better. And if we can't get them, I'd just trade them for picks in next year's draft where we might be able to use them to trade up for a QB if needed.

We went to OT against a team that was still alive in the playoff hunt. Winning or losing that game at that point would have zero affect on the culture that is being built right now, just being competitive and taking it to OT accomplished that job. Case and point, we won that game and then just got blown the F out this week. If we couldn't use that to build upon this week, do you really think it's going to have even the smallest affect on the team moving forward into next season? It's why I've said there is a HUGE difference between tanking and losing after a closely battled game. Showing the fight and losing a close OT game would have done the same thing for the culture but not hurt out draft position and ability to trade back with a QB needy team. And no, I don't think it's hyperbole when you're talking about 3 picks later at that point in the draft. If you're talking about 17 to 20, then yea, it's probably the same thing. But not in the Top 5ish of the draft, that's where every draft slot can have massive ramifications down the line. Just because great players were drafted after our pick doesn't mean us picking higher wouldn't have given us a better chance at hitting big on a pick. Going back and looking at the other players drafted later is the cherry picking, because the fact remains that the higher you pick, the better chance you have at getting a difference maker and there is no logical way to say it's not true.