tukafan21

Sorry, should I have just said the majority of the fan base? Because there is no way Fitterer has above 50% of the fan base wanting him to keep his job right now, I'd venture to guess that it's no more than 25-30% of the fans who still want him around.

LOL In no world is any team giving us 2 firsts for Bryce right now, that would be insane given how he's looked so far and the upcoming QB class. There isn't a QB needy team that would make that move as opposed to just being bad this year and hoping their first can get them one of the QB's. If anyone would make that trade, I'd do it right now and hurt myself from laughing too hard at how dumb they are.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but at the same time, if Tepper did force them to take Young, do you really think that Reich and Fitterer wouldn't have been saying the exact same stuff that they did? They're not going to come out and be like, "well we wanted Stroud but we had to take Young" Whether they wanted him or if Tepper forced it, you were always going to hear the exact same stuff out of them that we did, because they would have had to sell it as their decision in the end anyways.

The entire fan base wants Fitterer gone and many have already given up on Reich. To us fans, it seems obvious that Fitterer is already on borrowed time and it's only a matter of when, not if he'll be fired, with the day after the season ends being the longest he might stick around. But I was just thinking about it, and if the fans are right and Tepper forced them to pick Bryce, particularly if both of them liked Stroud more, could that buy both of them much more leeway than we've been considering? Yes, I know the team has a lot of problems, but when your biggest problem is the QB's play, if the owner forced the pick over what both the HC and GM wanted, it might be hard for him to then fire them all too quickly. Particularly as if say he did fire Fitterer soon, if Tepper forced that pick over what they wanted, there is basically a 100% chance that information gets "leaked" out there, and that would make it quite difficult for Tepper to attract a quality candidate to take the GM role moving forward. If the owner is forcing such an important decision like that over the objections of both the GM and HC, then I can't see any quality GM candidate ever considering the job.

LOL, helllllllllllll no I love Diggs the player, but he'd be an utter disaster here. Look how unhappy he is at times while he has one of the best QB's throwing him the ball and on one of the best teams in the league with legit SB aspirations. Put him on the team with the worst starting QB in the league and who hasn't won a game yet this year, I'm sure that will make him super happy all the time and never cause any problems.

Where did I ever mention Hardman as a deep threat? All we do is run WR screens and 5 yard hitches, if you don't understand how much a quick twitch speed guy like Hardman would help out with those routes as opposed to a straight line speed guy like Chark, then I don't know what to say to you. Having speed at WR is used in far more ways than just go routes, do you not see what the Dolphins keep doing with Tyreek to just get the ball in his hands? Sure, he does have some go routes where he just beats the defense, but they love to just get the ball in his hands quickly and let him run.

This is why the second we made the trade, Thielen was my #1 FA target, his route running and overall professionalism that he brings to a team is exactly what you need for a rookie QB. He's also why I drafted him in my fantasy league and everyone else laughed at me, especially after I had to spend $6 in our auction to get him. But I knew he'd be that safety valve and catch a ton of passes, he's 10th in PPR scoring so far, and that's with a terrible first week.

So, you don't want to trade for a known speedster (something we currently don't have) on a low contract because you want to wait for a player who odds are won't be made available in a trade until the offseason, and instead want to give up a 3rd for someone with a large contract next year and has never lived up to expectations? Like I said in my thread the other day, Jeudy has been the #1 there since he stepped foot in the NFL and he has SEVEN total games in his career of over 77 yards receiving. The ONLY way I'd ever accpet a trade for Jeudy is if the Broncos are paying 75% of his contract next year and we give up no more than a 5th. He's marginally better than Chark this year and would cost us $13 million next year, in no world is he worth that to us, particularly when you then factor in giving up a 3rd to get him.

To be clear, I'm not saying they definitely can't, but just that I don't ever remember seeing it done, which makes me think you can't do it or we'd have seen it before.

Doubt the Bears would have agreed to that and I'm not even sure you can do those trades in the NFL like you can in the NBA. I think if you could, we'd see them happen more often, and I don't think I've ever seen it done. They can do it based on a player being traded and then how many snaps they play or how far your team makes it in the playoffs, but I've never seen an NFL pick traded with Top X protections like the NBA does.

I mean, no we don't know what he's making, but I know it's not even remotely close to the $36 million contract that Stroud got as the #2 pick this past year. Sure, he could take out some insurance against injury if he returns, but it's still a massive gamble when you're supposed to be such a high draft pick as a QB. Hell, even if he just has a shaky season, maybe gets injured and misses most of the year but isn't career ending and he then falls into the middle/late first round, that would cost him $25 million on his rookie deal. And all of that is still ignoring that waiting an extra year is one more year before he can sign one of those monster $200+ million contracts assuming he isn't a bust. There is a reason nobody else has pulled a Luck before and gone back to school instead of being a QB as a Top 3 pick in the draft, it really makes no sense. You're just better off refusing to sign with a team and forcing a trade like Eli, it might not be a great PR look, but it's the better financial move.

There aren’t any #1’s out there available outside of Higgins, who might not even be available until the offseason I brought this up in a thread a week or two ago since they weren’t using him at all, his speed along would be valuable as we don’t have anyone like that right now. I’d trade TMJ for him straight up

Even with the NIL situation now, I don’t see any QB turning down the NFL if they’re projected a Top 2 pick. They may try and pull an Eli and force a trade, but I can’t see anyone else doing a Luck and going back to school. At least not counting Shedeur, different situation with him playing for his dad and having just got to Colorado this year. Plus I believe Deion when he says his son isn’t going to the draft to be the 2nd pick, I think they’d rather risk waiting a year so he has a shot at being the #1 overall pick. Sure the NIL money is nice, but it’s still much less money than they’d make on their signing bonus and one more year until they’re able to sign a mega 2nd contract if they pan out.

Caleb Williams is about as sure a thing as you get for QB prospects these days. He’s right there with Luck and Lawrence in terms of best prospects in the last 20 years, his bare minimum floor is an above average NFL QB. Bryce’s floor even pre-draft was out of the league before his second contract with his size concerns.

Depends exactly what you mean by benefit of the doubt. In terms of how I personally feel about him as an NFL QB, well that ship has already sailed. Never liked him pre-draft due to physical limitations and injury concern, but accepted him as our pick and got on board with the "super brain" and was hopeful. But these first 4 games of his have shown my pre-draft concerns to be real life issues, and maybe even worse than I even was expecting, he really does look like a little kid out there. Don't get me wrong, I'm desperately hoping he proves me wrong and we don't need to replace him anytime soon and we can work to build a winning team around him. I just have no optimism left in that, I think he's a total bust, just as I expected during the pre-draft process. In terms of how long do we as a team give him? If we have a Top 5 pick in 2025 after 2 years, he hasn't shown drastically higher upside, and there is a QB prospect there worth taking, then I'm doing it. If there isn't a QB worth taking and he's still bad, then it really depends on the coaching situation. If Reich is still here, I give him that 3rd year as well and hope he either finally shows up or is bad enough to put us in position to draft someone new. If Reich is gone, it comes down to how the rest of the squad looks, if they're a solid group that can push for the division, I'm looking for someone new in FA for 2025, if not, I'm just letting the 3rd year play out, then cut him after the season and find someone in the draft or FA for 2026. Having all our picks again in 2026, I'm not against just completely sucking until then and doing a hard re-set on things. It's not what I want, but it just might be the best path forward for long term sustained success. Most rookies who struggle, it's because of mental mistakes because they're still not there yet, but he just physically doesn't look like he belongs out there, and I mean in way more ways than his stature, and that's quite concerning as there isn't much that can be done for that.

Also, to the point of the OP, I feel like their lack of playing time would actually signal the opposite. If we were trying to trade them, I'd think that we'd purposefully feature them in the hopes that they flash and helps draw more interest. At this point, it's not like a dud game from either is going to hurt their trade value with how we've been not using Chinn and how TMJ has looked most of his career. This just screams poor coaching decisions to me.

If we're not going to use Chinn, we HAVE to trade him, even more so than Burns. At least with Burns, if we don't trade him before the deadline, we can tag him and trade him in the offseason. But if we don't play Chinn, he's gone, 100%, he'd have no reason to want to come back here after they refused to use him this year and how bad we are. Lots of teams out there will know what he can do if used properly and he'll have suitors lined up around the block to sign him. I'd hate it as I love him, I think he's one of our better players and should be on the field for all snaps, but they don't seem to have any plan for him, which is baffling to me.

I don't think it's fair to knock the defense for points given up when they keep having to deal with short fields because of turnovers that Bryce caused. Not saying the defense is great, but the offense keeps putting them in terrible positions. The Lions had 3 TD drives yesterday that were 20, 38, and 31 yard drives. That's not on them, that's on the offense.

Yes, feel better about the team, as in our future, but I wouldn't feel any better about Bryce the player. He's just a classic example of someone who's skills were good enough to work in college and his "super brain" then took him to a different level. But since he doesn't have NFL level abilities, his "super brain" isn't able to make up for the lack of them, no matter how smart he might be. I think Bryce is going to be the next Dan Orlovsky or Kellen Moore. Someone who didn't have the physical abilities to make it in the league, but will excel in either the media or as an OC because of how he's able to see the game on a different level than others.

I said it the second we fired Rhule that it was a huge mistake Rhule was the main reason we were losing and he weren't going to contend for a SB last year regardless of who was the coach. Firing him improved the team way too much and was always going to cost us badly in regards to draft position. I was very much on board with letting him coach out the season (or at least until Week 14-15ish) and just accept it while knowing we'd have a Top 5 pick in the draft.

If we had our 1st round pick next year, we'd be giving up on Bryce after 1 season, let alone 3. Same reason the Cardinals dumped Josh Rosen after 1 year to take Kyler. I'm clearly one of the bigger Bryce bashers on here at the moment, but even I'll admit that sure, there is still a chance he's able to salvage a decent career if things break the right way for him. But outside of him showing that massive improvement before we have another high draft pick, you have to operate under the "if we have a chance to get an actual elite prospect, you take him." He's been bad enough and has already showcased that all his pre-draft concerns are beyond legitimate real NFL issues that if the opportunity presents itself, you take it and run without thinking twice about it. It's sunk cost in economics No, we won't go out and try to replace him in the next 2 years through trade or FA, but if it can be done through our own draft pick in the 1st round, it will be.

Ehhhhhh, yes and no Yes, I think people would still have had an issue with Bryce had we been able to make the trade while giving up less assets. I personally never liked him as a prospect because I have eyes and a brain. I never saw any film of him to where I looked at it and said, "now that's an NFL {insert attribute here}" He didn't have the speed, size, arm, strength.... nothing that screamed "he's an NFL player." If we stayed put at 9 and he fell to us, would I have been upset at taking the chance on him there? No, probably not, if a Heisman winner that many "experts" think has a mind that can overcome the rest of his issues falls to #9, sure, he's worth the risk at that point. I think that's why he got rave reviews in training camp, why he looked good at Alabama, and why he's able to look halfway decent in the 4th quarter of these already decided games. When he isn't facing a defense that is actively trying to attack him, he can make some magic happen. But if he has to rely on his speed, strength or arm strength to make plays, he's so far below average that he just can't do it at this level. It's why I never understood the pick, you can coach up players mentally, but you can't coach a player to grow 4 inches and put on 30 lbs of muscle. So in short, yes the trade is part of why people are so upset, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the player himself even if we were able to take him standing pat at #9.

He had 101 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter yesterday after the Lions went into a shell prevent defense. He also had a garbage time TD and yardage in the Saints game as well. Stats never tell the full picture and Bryce's completion percentages (thanks to all the screens) and his yardage/TDs are not indicative of his actual play, but game situation. He's been AWFUL in the first 3 quarters of games so far, just beyond bad.

Huh? I wasn't saying that in the sense of "we needed to keep that 2025 1st to take a WR" My point was imagine if we still had DJ, but didn't have Burns or Brown, and in addition to not having our 2024 1st, we also didn't have our 2025 1st. Burns, 3 Firsts, and a Second would be so much of a worse situation right now than DJ, 2 Firsts and 2 Seconds. Honestly, mainly because it allows us the option in 2025 of either taking a new QB to move on from this mess, or getting a Top 10 pick at WR on a rookie deal to see if Bryce can fix it, and if not, then we use the 2026 1st on a new QB who comes in with an elite WR already on the squad. I hated giving up DJ, but I still think it was better than also losing our 2025 First. Especially if it was Burns in the deal, as he's likely to bring us back another First plus more in a trade. So in a way it would have been like giving up 4 Firsts in the trade, unfathomable.