tukafan21

I actually think XL will get better and pan out in the end, but even when we drafted him, I thought his upside was a high end #2. And yes, I've made it very clear my beliefs of how good T-Mac will be. Obviously as an alum who watches every game, I see/know Arizona players better than really any other prospects. There's been a lot of Arizona football (and basketball) players that I was convinced would be all star talent's in the NFL/NBA, including guys that were drafted in the 1st round for football and in the lottery for basketball, and no, they didn't all pan out (I see you Antoine Cason, Ka'Deem Carey, Derrick Williams, and Stanley Johnson in particular). But out of all of them, there's only two that I was a million percent convinced that they would be legitimate all pro and potential HOF type of talents. Rób Gronkowski and T-Mac, that's it. And with Gronk, I was literally telling all my friends back home that he was going to be the next big NFL TE after his very first game as a freshman. And no, it's not being a slave to the moment and saying that. It's hard to explain, but it's just one of those, "you know it when you see it" and from day 1, watching T-Mac just felt different, he's going to be THAT guy.

Because we traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our best offensive player to get him and he's now 1 season away from when franchise QB's get signed to contract extensions. We shouldn't be anointing him as a franchise QB after a couple small moments of positive things at this point in his career, he should be clearly showing that he's the guy, if he's going to be THE guy. 2 years into his career with 28 starts and he has only one 300 yard game, 17 games UNDER 200 yards, 26 passing TDs (yes, he has 6 rushing), and 19 INTs, and only 5 games with a QBR over 61. Yes, he had a BIG game in week 18, but before that, he wasn't lighting defenses up, he was playing serviceably against poor defenses. Showing "huge improvement" like you said isn't quite as impressive when that huge improvement was from looking like legitimately the biggest bust in draft history. In the 10 starts after his benching, the timeframe people are pointing to his turnaround, he had a grand total of 3 games where he had more than 224 yards passing, with 2 of them coming in OT against 2 of the worst pass defenses in the league this year. Not saying you don't ask a valid question, but the above is the valid response to it. While at the same time we can ask the question of.... Why do all the Bryce truthers put so much weight behind his Week 18 game and disregard the previous 27 starts he made? Matt Flynn went 31-44 for 480 yards, 6 TDs, and 1 INT in the final week of the season. One big game in the final week doesn't make for a franchise QB, but on here, people are taking that game as the definitive proof that we found our long term QB solution.

Probably the same with Johnson If T-Mac is there at 8, it means the players already drafted would most likely be Ward, Sanders, Hunter, Johnson, Carter, Graham, and an OT. Realistically outside of the OT's and QB's, I think there is a clear Top 5 players emerging from most of the mock drafts and big boards in Hunter, T-Mac, Johnson, Carter, Graham. If/when the Patriots figure out their LT problem in free agency with all that cap room, that also then likely opens them up to go BPA of a non OT as well. So what we really need to root for is that neither the Patriots or Jets are able to sign OT's in free agency and it all but ensures at least one, if not both, end up taking OT's and letting one of those other 5 players fall to us. If that doesn't happen, I'm trying to trade back to pick up as many extra picks possible and then target either Burden or whoever the best pass rushing prospect is at that point. But if we can't get one of those 5 non QB/OT players, I think getting the extra draft picks would be better than picking someone there at 8.

That's not the point to that post though. If people want to take or pass on T-Mac because of whatever he may or may not be, that's understandable. But if the reason they want to pass on him in the end is because XL is already on the roster and our top draft pick last year, then that's the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. The XL pick is a sunk cost, we can't change it, and he still has a lot of potential that he can reach. But he's just not the prospect that T-Mac is, even if you're someone who has some concerns with him, he's still THAT much better of a prospect than XL is that you can't make your decision on him because of XL's presence. Our WR room past this next season is XL and Coker, and even this next season we're only adding Thielen to the room as of right now. That is a bottom 5 WR room in the league right now, so passing on a guy with legit Top 5 WR potential because you have a guy who might be a high end #2 if he reaches his potential would just be asinine. It's also all moot anyways, unless he comes out and runs like a 4.6, he's not falling to 8

It's crazy that like 3 months ago he was looking like he would play his way into a sizable free agent contract this offseason, now he might be near untouchable

Passing on T-Mac because you think he duplicates XL's role would be like saying you don't want great pizza because you already have frozen pizza rolls First, T-Mac is anything but a plodding big man that people seem to think he is because of his sizes. Second, his ceiling is so much higher than XL's that it's not even funny, honestly his floor is probably XL's ceiling.

In his two years at Colorado, they were 0-6 vs ranked teams and only 2-9 vs power conference teams with above .500 records He's just not a great actual coach, he's a glorified cheerleader who is great at social media and generating buzz. I'm sorry, but if you have the Heisman winner who played both sides of the ball and a supposed Top 3 draft pick at QB, you really should have won more/bigger games than they did. Everything about these Colorado teams were smoke and mirrors and it's going to be very apparent in 5 years when we look back and Shedeur is already a backup QB and Hunter is only playing half the games a season because his body has taken a decade's worth of hits in half the time.

Sure, but they had the #2 pick and aren't in that division with those QB's and HC's

Dak to the Jets for Rodgers and #8. #8 and #12 (and whatever else they'd need to include) to the Browns to take Shedeur. Rodgers gets 1 season to make a SB run while he mentors Shedeur for the season and then Shedeur takes over in year 2. Honestly, it wouldn't be the worst scenario since I don't think Shedeur is going to be a great QB anyways, might as well give him a redshirt year learning from one of the best to ever do it. And if I'm the Jets, I'm definitely doing that as I think Dak is still a good QB who likely can handle the NY media and will allow you to contend for the playoffs right away. They're not finding a better QB solution this offseason than Dak would be.

The problem with it is if Glenn, a legitimate HC candidate, was praised for turning them down to interview because he knew they were just doing it for the rule because they wanted Vrabel. Then what are they supposed to do except bring in guys who know they aren't getting the job just to satisfy the rule so they can make their hire? Vrabel is as legitimate a HC candidate imaginable, he shouldn't have been fired by the Titans in the first place, and there is a clear connection between the two of them. I get the point of the rule, but at the same time, there are situations like this where the rule was going to make any interview a non legitimate one because everyone knew who they were hiring.

In what world are the Raiders the job that Ben Johnson has been waiting on? They have no QB and they're in a division with Mahomes/Reid, Herbert/Harbaugh, Nix/Payton, QB/HC combos. There really isn't anything attractive about that job right now

It's going to be very interesting to see where Darnold ends up next year. The teams who don't get their QB in the draft this year, might just decide to stick with whoever they have next year and say screw it, we're going for Manning. If you bring in Darnold, he's going to to be good enough to make sure you're not getting the #1 pick. So if you're the Raiders and you can't get one of the 2 QB's, do you just roll Aiden out there again next year instead of trying to go with someone like Darnold?

True, but I'm sure they could have added a spiking exception, not like they could add a screen one as it would be too ambiguous, hell, that play was technically meant to be a type of a screen play to Puka as is.

haha that's crazy I'm watching the Manningcast, so when they just switched over to showing people watching the game at that bar with the huge screen, I'm sure they told you what they were showing you on the main broadcast. But since I'm on the other, I legit thought hey were showing the view from a sideline box until they changed the screen to the end zone view, that place looks so cool and I really want to watch a game there sometime.

Too many screen passes that would create fumbles for, which no team is going to like the idea of and to vote in favor for to stop something like this happening. I can't remember the last time I've seen a play and just said it's not right that it should be called that way, think it's just going to be one of those one off weird things that there is no fix for.

100% agree, which is why my first post said I don't know how to feel about that one, haha. Not really sure what they even could do to change that in the future though. The play wasn't over, it absolutely was a pass attempt and there was a player in the area. There's no way to make a rule that says "if you're clearly being sacked, you can't flip the ball behind you at the feet of a receiver for an incompletion, it will be called intentional grounding in this specifically odd instance" For as dumb of a play as it was by Stafford, in a way it was also smart, he saw Puka and knew all he had to do was flick the ball at the ground to get an incompletion. The dumb part was trusting the refs to call it correctly, but beyond that, the only risk was accidentally throwing it backwards which he probably knew he wasn't going to do.

totally agree that it was beyond stupid, but the last thing it could have been was intentional grounding, it landed like a yard away from Puka's feet. If it was going to be an incorrect call in the end, I'd have been fine with it being called a fumble or a sack as "in the grasp" before it being called intentional grounding, and by the rules, it was actually an incomplete pass.

did they? or did the rule book? It was a stupid play, absolutely should have just ate the sack, but if you're going by the definitions of rules in the book, he made a pass attempt in the area of a WR, no matter how ridiculous it looked.

Oh they 100% can't call intentional grounding, from the back angle you can see it really wasn't all that far from Puka's feet, it was never going to be completed, but by definition, there clearly was a receiver in the area.

Honestly not sure what to think about that call. In the end, I do think it was the correct call by definition of the rule, because he absolutely did that on purpose and from the back angle, you can see he was trying to get it to Puka, even if it was never going to be completed. But that really shouldn't be allowed to be an incomplete pass, just everything about that should have been if not a fumble, a sack or something, just feels wrong to be an incomplete pass.

I think he'll still strongly consider the Jags because they have a QB for him to work with (maybe the Bears too, but I just don't think he wants to deal with that franchise and be in such a tough division). If he doesn't go down to Jacksonville though, I think he waits until next offseason to try and go to wherever gets the #1 pick so he can draft Arch

Even if he has a borderline pro bowl season next year, there would still be at minimum 10 QB's out there that teams wouldn't even pick up the phone if we called to offer a swap. Saying there are only 4 QB's you'd trade Bryce for is the definition of the most homer take I've ever seen.

LOL this is literally the most delusional post I've ever seen on a sports message board before. There are only 4 QB's in the NFL that you'd trade Bryce Young for right now?!?!?!?! Literally batshit crazy right there, absolutely utterly insane. Hell, I'm even on record as saying I don't think Daniels will be a starting QB 5 years from now because of his style of play and I think he's going to get hurt, so I'd accept you not trading for him on that thought, but if you remove the injury concern, there is no possible reason for sticking with Bryce over him, none at all. Even if you wanted to pick a few of those QB's you wouldn't trade him for, I'd accept that as an acceptable response, even if one I'd disagree with. But if you called up any of the teams of the other QB's you listed as maybes or too early to tell and offered them a swap, they wouldn't even bother laughing at you before hanging up the phone. Herbert just had 3,900 yards on 66% completion with 23 TDs, 3 INTs, another 300 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... but you wouldn't trade Bryce freaking Young for him because he had a bad playoff game?!?!?! That alone is the most disqualifying statement possible for your judgement of players, just crazy. And that's just touching on the other players, but then you say Bryce has looked "decent" over the last 10 games, which in itself, is more exaggeration based on his previous play than an accurate statement in a vacuum. Over those 10 games he had 3 games over 225 yards passing and not a single game of 300, with only 3 games over 62% completion as well. It's not like he was lighting it up, he was just playing serviceable game management QB play until the final game of the season. If you want to talk about the hope of building on that, I can't fault you. But if you want to use those 10 games to say you wouldn't trade him for anyone but FOUR other QB's in the league right now and you're just fooling yourself.

Who of these guys are you taking Bryce over (as players only, contracts don't matter for the discussion since it's just who is better than the other)? Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Love, Daniels, Purdy, Murray, Dak, Maye, Nix, Lawrence, Baker, Tua, Stroud, and Caleb? As that's 19 QB's right there and there is no chance I'm taking Bryce over any of them over the next 5 seasons. Then factor in the older guys who are still better than Bryce right now like Stafford, Geno, Wilson. Add in the younger unproven guys who very well still might be better like Penix or McCarthy, and you might be able to even add Darnold to that list. Or even Richardson who while he's struggled, his physical abilities still give him a higher potential ceiling if he figures it out. Now add in any rookies who will come in over the next 2-3 years (I'd take Arch over Bryce right now at a minimum). Are you really going to say you think he has the potential to be a Top 20 QB over the next 5 years when you look at that list? I just don't see how he's going to be better than those guys (health aside of course as it's always an unknown). And this isn't me saying I think all these guys are elite SB caliber QB's, because a lot of them clearly aren't, they're just better than Bryce, and that's my point in all of this. I just don't see Bryce as ever being THAT kinda guy.

I still think Horn can be an all pro caliber CB if he stays healthy, but yea, I'm doing that trade without a second thought