tukafan21

I can tell you've done your research on him from this post, as I had part of it in that response at first but removed it as for whatever reason I just felt my explanation of what I was trying to say felt clunky and wasn't getting my point across. It's the varying his speeds during routes part. I actually think that's why he had so many people saying he didn't seem like he had urgency in his route running, because he does THAT so well, and I think sometimes people see it and think he's loafing it out there but he's really just playing mind games with the DB's a lot of the time. He was soooooo good at those "I'm going to fake only running a 5-7 yard slant to sit in the hole but half as second before I know the QB is going to throw me the ball I'm going to take off at full speed" type of routes. We loved running those with him, he'd just run a slow short slant while the action is to the other side of the field through a play action or first read to the opposite side, and then he'd just take off on just enough of an angle to give him space on the defender and catch the pass in stride so he never slows down and gets those long strides moving. And yes, he's great at improvising. Part of it is that him and our QB have played together since the 8th grade, but it's also something Bryce excels at so I think the two of them will build chemistry on those fast.

I gave you a full breakdown and examples from last year as to why I think it's unfair to expect 1k from T-Mac this year if everyone stays healthy. But the TLDR version is we will have 4 legitimately good WRs next year, most rookies who get to 1,000 yards don't have any others on the team with them let alone 3 others, it will be hard for him to put up 1k with out the others being injured or falling short of expectations themselves, but in 2026 without Thielen it's different. Because again, I'm not assuming major injuries or games missed when I'm putting expectations out there for the season, I'm assuming good health. If those other 3 WRs combine to miss a lot of time, then yes, he needs to get to 1k in that scenario.

Last year Thielen had 615 yards in 10 games (had more ypg than his 1k season in 23). XL had 497 in 16 games with tons of drops and Coker had 478 in 11. They also only had only 192 of our 518 targets to get those numbers. So if Thielen has 1,000 yards again, XL and Coker each improve to say 600 yards each, and T-Mac comes in at 800 yards, you're going to say that's not good enough? Especially if he ends up with close to, if not getting to, double digit TD's like I think he will, as he's going to be a red zone monster for Bryce? Because if that's the breakdown of just the Top 4 and Bryce plays all 17 games, he's going to be pushing a 4,000 yard season as the TEs, RBs, and other WRs will probably add up to 750-1k yards as well, and I think that would be far more than anyone here could be expecting of him this season. Last year the Giants only had 2 players with more than 331 yards besides Nabers and they were 699 and 573 while Nabers "only" had 1,200 yards (granted in 15 games). While the Jags second leading receiving was a TE with 411 yards and BTJ also "only" had 1,282 but in all 17 games. Odunze couldn't get there (734 in 17 games) with Moore and Allen there, just as McConkey was able to get there because his competition for targets was Quentin Johnson (711 yards), Josh Palmer (584), and Will Dissly (481) who I think Thielen, XL, and Coker are all better than any of them. If everyone stays healthy and XL/Coker have improved, I think Bryce is going to spread the ball around rather than focus on T-Mac in a way that most of the 1k rookies have been able to get. Again I point to MHJ and the Cardinals last year. They had 3,859 yards receiving. McBride had 1,146, MHJ had 885, then their 3rd and 4th in rec yards were 548 and 414. Take the 146 and 85 that McBride/MHJ had over my example for our guys and give them to the other two and they get to 7 yards shy of the 1,200 combined yards I'm using for XL/Coker, while the rest of the team added up to 866 yards. So, if you expect T-Mac to get to 1k, where are you taking those yards from? if anything, XL and Coker each getting 600 yards seems like a low projection, so they wouldn't come from there. Maybe they come from Thielen now that we have T-Mac as the true #1. But I think if anything, having T-Mac draw attention will just make it easier for Thielen to get open and him and Bryce have great chemistry already, he's not going to stop throwing his way if he can pick up easy chunks of yards there. So maybe they come from the RBs, TEs, other WRs, but it's I think a very fair example to show why expecting 1,000 yards if everyone stays healthy isn't necessarily fair to him. It's also why I said I'd then expect at least 1,200 yards in 2026, as once Thielen leave and all 3 of T-Mac/XL/Coker get better, they absorb that 1,000 yards Thielen leaves behind with T-Mac probably taking close to half of it and the other two splitting up the other half.

Sure, he's said that, but what it really means is that he's just going to insist on being a two way player and the Jags want him as such. But he won't be a starter who plays every snap on both sides in Week 1, if at all during his rookie year. This is the NFL, no rookie, no matter how good they might be, is going to be able to go through their first mini and training camps while splitting time on both sides of the ball and be ready to be a week 1 starter and go full time both sides. And if a team does that, then they're dumb. I think their plan is to start him mainly on offense to give Lawrence another weapon, and I'm guessing it means he'll be a rotational CB early in the season, maybe he comes in when they go to nickel, even if he then plays the outside and someone else shifts inside.

lol, a friend of mine texted me after we drafted him and said something like, "so if he fails, will you have to change your name on your message board or go into hiding?" And yea, I've clearly planted my flag on him and what I believe he can be. So while I 100% honestly don't believe it will ever come to it, but yea, if he busts, I'll obviously have to eat crow. But I won't have to, when he's killing it for us for the next decade, everyone who hated on him the last few months will cheer for him and just know in the back of their minds that, "yep, he was right about this kid."

He plays more like AJ Green than either of those two. But to be fair, I did see a number of analysts say that there really aren't a lot of great comparisons for him, that he's a little bit unique. He's more athletic than Evans or London, but doesn't use his physicality of either of them, but he uses it more than guys like Sutton does.

So I'm not sure what goes into the rating and if it's meant does he get open vs the coverage or if it means the targets he gets in those coverages are open or not. As he had so many contested catches this year that were only that because our QB didn't throw it while he was open. Also, if he ever had man coverage, there was always a safety and/or a linebacker who would shade over to give double or triple coverage on him, they never let CB's just out on an island with him because the few times he did, they were automatic completions. So I'm sure that plays a factor into why he struggled to get open more in man, particularly as against a zone, he's VERY good at finding the holes in them and sitting down to give his QB a big target to find. But either way, the #1 thing I've always said he has to improve upon the most is his get off at the line, which absolutely would play a factor in him beating man coverage more often. Which is also why I've been so high on him, because that's something that NFL coaches can get you better at doing at the next level. It's much easier to coach things like that up than a player's hands or overall route running. It's also a reason I think him and Bryce are a great pairing, because with Bryce's anticipation and T-Mac's hands/radius, T-Mac won't need to create huge gaps of separation, all he needs is that small bit of separation and the ball is going to be there on time and he'll pluck it out of the air before the DB can get a hand on him to break it up.

Funny, because I think it's monumentally stupid to go in as a WR and not CB for him for two main reasons. First is that he's very slender, he has a much better chance at having a longer career as a CB than a WR because of that, and if he can't stay healthy as a WR, he's never going to get the huge contracts and play 10 years in the league like he could on the other side of the ball. The second and more important, is that CB is so much more difficult of a position to play at an elite level, you can't keep dipping your toe in and out of the water on that end and expect to be great. So if he's a full time WR, it will be really hard for him to play any CB part time and be successful at it and make it worth their while to let him to continue doing. But if he's a full time CB, it's much easier for them to have a few select packages on offense to where he gets maybe 10 snaps a game, half as a decoy, half getting the ball in creative ways to get him space to work in and make a big play here or there. Because also if that works while being an all pro caliber CB, he'll get paid so much more than any CB due to what else he offers, which then would probably rival top WR money, but have the chance at a much longer career while doing so. He's also just a better CB than he is WR, so why go full time at your weaker position that is easier to do part time and still have success?

I wanted all the smoke LOL As I said a ton of times, when people wanted to bring up legitimate weaknesses, I wouldn't attack them, because it was fair, but I'd also point out why his strengths were also unique and why I felt he still should be the pick. But it was when people would come out with the nonsense that in no way, shape, or form were near remotely accurate, that's when the claws came out, you're not going to besmirch my Wildcat GOAT and get away with it. When you've watched literally every snap of a player's career, half of them just watching him instead of the full play anyways, you can easily tell the people who are talking about him without seeing anything more than maybe a few minutes of highlights. I was never going to let those people get the last word in on him, not a chance, haha.

Well played haha Does it at least make you feel better about us taking T-Mac instead of Golden like you wanted, now that there are all these reports of teams like the Rams and Cowboys badly wanting T-Mac and trying to move up for them, but the Cowboys then passed on Golden and the Rams didn't try to trade up for him either?

First of all, DJ had 788 yards as a rookie And second, KB was playing with Cam the year before he won MVP, and while Olsen had the exact same 1,008 yards as KB that year, next on the list was Cotchery with 580 and then 4th was Philly Brown with 296. KB had 73 receptions on 146 targets that year, THAT'S why he had 1k+ yards, not because he was some dominant WR, there were no other WR options on that team at all. If you say Thielen and Olsen are somewhat equal, particularly in role and ability, then XL/Coker >>>>>> Cotchery/Brown. Yes, T-Mac very well could get there, and this isn't me hedging on the ability of my guy. It's that we should in theory have a lot of good receiving options and in his rookie year, I can see how T-Mac can have a good season but still not get to 1k this year because of it. In year 2 when we lose Thielen and he has that year under his belt, then yea, I'll say right now, I'm expecting a 1,200 yard season at minimum from him in 2026. But I just think expecting 1k this first year given the weapons we have and being a run first offense, isn't fair to T-Mac. Again, just look at MHJ for what an uber talented rookie is likely to do when there is another legit receiving option there. Nabers and BTJ were the only games in town for them last year, Puka the year before had a lot of time as the only option there while Kupp was hurt. If that happens to us next year with Thielen/XL/Coker, then yea, I'll then say T-Mac should get that 1k mark, but I'm not going to make my expectations based on expecting injuries.

So...... what you're saying is I got into 3 months worth of arguments and posting until my fingers hurt from typing out novels each day for nothing? Oh well, T-Mac is still a Panther in the end, totally worth it, LOL.

The Sanders family's problem is that they raised Shedeur to have the exact same mindset and persona as Deion, and then used Deion as the example as to why it's not a problem. Even in that public interview at the combine, he gave some answer like, "do you know who my dad was and the things they said about him and he was still a HOFer?" The problem is his dad was a CB and sometimes a WR, the two positions in the NFL where not only nobody cares if you have that outward persona, in many cases it's something teams look for because WRs and CBs need to have that mentality out there on an island. His interview answer that's been going around about where you see yourself in 5 years, and his response of being Mayor of that town and laughing is a perfect example of it. There is no issue if that's your QB's mentality, we all know how Cam was. The problem is there is a different between mentality and outward persona, and that just flat out doesn't work for a QB to have that persona, Cam didn't even do it. There are a lot of QB's who have that mindset, in particular, Burrow right now strikes me as that kind of guy. But he still knows how to flip that QB Switch and tones it back when speaking publicly and is able to be the face of the franchise. Shedeur and Deion never seemed to grasp that for some reason, and it's a problem. Have you ever heard reports of GM's being asked by defensive players on their team to draft a QB solely because they wanted to crush them in practice? That's wild to even think of, let alone hear about actually happening. QB is unlike any position in all of sports, whether fair or not, you have to act differently when speaking in public or on camera, and Shedeur just doesn't, if anything, he leans even more into his Deion like persona.

First on T-Mac, I 100% expect him to be the top WR from this class, however I think expecting him to put up 1k+ as a rookie isn't necessarily fair, especially since you're putting it in perspective of how many other rookie WRs have done that in recent years. And Thielen is the reason for that. Not many (if any) of those 1k+ rookies had someone like Thielen there when they were drafted, and no matter how good T-Mac is this year, Bryce is still going to lean on his existing chemistry with Thielen unless he's drastically lost a step this offseason and just can't get open like he's been able to in his career. As I pointed out in another thread the other day, looking at MHJ last year is the way to look at T-Mac's season if Thielen plays a full and healthy season. MHJ had McBride "steal" 110+ catches and 1,100+ yards in what was a pass happy offense (Kyler was 9th in the league in attempts), it's going to be hard for any rookie to put up more than the 800ish yards he had last year in that scenario. Especially if we follow a similar game plan to last year and be a run heavy team. In terms of XL, you're completely right, jumping up to get a project 2/3 isn't smart, and if we knew we needed a future slot from that pick, yes, Ladd would have been a much better pick. But at this point, those are all sunk costs, even taking T-Mac at 8 is now considered a sunk cost. Forgetting the past or who we maybe should have taken last year now knowing future roles, I still think T-Mac, XL, Coker can be one of the Top 1-3 WR rooms in the NFL in a few years, I honestly think they really do have that potential in them.

I think taking T-Mac changes how to look at XL and the season he had, especially in retrospect. If you look at his rookie season from the viewpoint of "we traded into the 1st round to take him as our #1 WR of the future" then yea, he had a god awful rookie season and I'd be scared about his future. But we've now drafted T-Mac, it allows us to now go back and look at XL's rookie season in a totally different light. XL was a late bloomer, essentially having only one college season of experience, he was always going to be VERY raw last year. If we knew at the time that one year later, we'd have a true #1 and XL "only needs to be a future #2 and potentially doing it from a power slot position" then I'm not so sure he had all that bad of a rookie season. Because he still had 49 catches for 500 yards and 4 TDs, which really is a pretty darn good rookie season for a player as raw as XL was/is, especially when you consider the QB struggles we had last year, and even once Bryce turned things around a bit, we were still a run based team and Bryce's stats were anything but mind-blowing. Personally, I think it's one of those situations where people are too focused on the negatives with XL and not seeing all the positives and potential he has given how raw he still is. Which is where viewing him as a future #2 vs #1 makes all the difference in the world in looking back on his rookie season and projecting his future role/ability. If he's worked on his craft and cuts back on his drops, it's very reasonable to think he could be a 70 catch, 800 yards, and 5 TD type of player for us in year 3 when he's the #2 after Thielen is gone. How many teams have that type of talent as their #2 WR behind a guy putting up 1,200+ and 10 on a yearly basis as their #1 as I fully expect T-Mac to be doing? Then if Coker also improves slightly and is kicking in 600-700 yards himself, then you've built yourself a Top 5 WR room.

I can tell you EXACTLY where we'd be, as it would have been one of two things to happen. DK Metcalf would be a Panther right now as we'd have made sure to beat out whatever offers were made for him as we'd have that desperate for WR help. Or we'd have still drafted T-Mac but probably would have needed to trade up to get him, as instead of the world thinking we were taking Carter or another defender, everyone with half a brain would have known T-Mac was our top target and some team would have bluffed another trading up to get him to get us to give up picks for him.

Isn't it? LOL

That's surprising to hear. If it took a while to get the T-Mac ones out there I'd have understood, because nobody knew who we would draft, if we took a defensive player there would have been much less demand for jerseys, so stocking up on material the last few months might not have been a smart decision. But when you trade for the #1 pick as long before the draft as we did, and knowing it would be for a QB, I'd think they'd have been stocking up so they could be ready to go right away.

Well, sure, nothing you're saying is incorrect (and yes, professional soccer players would run circles around any NFL player conditioning wise). But if we're comparing Hunter to just NFL prospects, he still might be the best conditioned player to come into the league. Even if he did tire towards the end of games, which would be expected, the overwhelming majority of players couldn't come close to doing what he did and play that many snaps every game. And yes, while WR and CB may be relatively light on contact, they are the two positions you actually run the most on the field and thus require greater conditioning/endurance than other positions. I also agree that he won't be able to play both ways full time, at least long term, but I think it's less about tiring out in games/seasons, as much as I don't think he'll be able to do it and stay healthy. Every season he plays both ways full time, it's the equivalent of playing two seasons for any other player. So if he plays both ways for 5 seasons, he just put 10 seasons worth of wear and tear on his body. His best chance at a great career is a Terrell Davis type, short but super elite before his body just tapped out.

Totally agree, BUT.......... I do think what we've already seen out of XL, Coker, and Sanders in year 1 is better than what we saw out of our past skill position picks that haven't panned out, KB's rookie year as the outlier. Especially since adding T-Mac pushes all 3 of them down in the pecking order and in turn, makes them a better player for the role they'll be taking on. Chuba has shown he can be a legit back and obviously, I'm as confident as anyone can ever be about a player panning out as I am with T-Mac. Nothing is guaranteed, but I really do think we've finally brought the right guys in and we're looking at our future offensive weapons already on the roster, it all hinges on Bryce thought of course.

Also, while the discussion is fun, I'm going to ask the original question in the OP again as nobody has mentioned one way or the other if they know..... Are they selling these in the team store yet? The timing of when these will start to ship out is really the only thing keeping me from putting my order in yet. If I'll get it in a month or less, I'm ordering it now, if it's going to be a while, I'm going to wait to see if they offer the blue and/or the better version of them.

I loved this answer, and not even just from the "fun teammate banter" part of it. That was such a media savvy answer by T-Mac, you just got drafted, there's no need to go calling out players on other teams and instantly providing bulletin board material (like the Cowboys guy calling out Jalen Carter did). Call out a teammate and instead of putting a target on your back to opposing teams or fans, you set up for fun practice battles to help the team improve, iron sharpens iron, the two of them are going to be the best thing for each other's careers and going up against each other every day in practice.

Yea, it would be cool to get the draft card because that's what got him on the Panthers and it says it was his first autograph after being picked, but if I was going to spend that kind of money on something signed by him, I'd rather it be something that is cooler to display, like a helmet or something. What I really want is to get some custom thing made that is half Arizona and half Panthers and get him to sign it with and inscription of each team's motto "Bear Down and Keep Pounding".

I see what you're saying, but Hunter is also just a freak of an athlete, and while it's impossible to quantify it in any way, there's a legitimate argument to be made that Hunter has the best conditioning of any player to ever get drafted in the NFL. Which if that was the case, it wouldn't really be fair to compare any player to him in that sense. Also, I'm not going to pretend I watched enough of Colorado to know, but maybe they took Hunter off the field at times to give him a play or two off as his breather. We really never did that with T-Mac, he was more or less out there for every offensive snap. So if the coaches were telling him to take those plays off as opposed to standing on the sideline for the breather, just so he's out there as a dummy distraction, you also can't really then fault him for it either, it's not a lack of effort, it's doing what your coaches are telling you to do so you can then be the impact player they need the other 95% of the plays.

I'll give you the Etienne pick to make up for Brooks, but I think you're looking at the T-Mac/XL picks wrong. Taking T-Mac wasn't "covering" the mistake of the other picks, it was "fixing" the XL pick. We took XL there because we expected him to be our new #1, but it just seems clear after his rookie year that he's never going to be THAT type of guy, even if he improves significantly. But he does seem like he has that high end #2 potential, and that's where the T-Mac pick makes it "fixing" the pick and not "covering" for a bad one. The T-Mac pick pushes all the other WR's down a peg in the pecking order, and in turn, that makes them all that much better as they'll now be going up against a DB one more peg down on their own pecking order. XL and Coker don't have have a 1/2 pairing potential, but they both could be at the very upper end of the 2's and 3's out there, it totally changes the equation for who they are for us.