tukafan21

McCown and Deuce aren’t owed millions, pretty sure they’d have no issue putting Tepper on blast if they wanted to. And frankly, McCown might have to do that to help sell himself for any future coaching jobs anyways

The problem is you can only coach up a QB so much, if you don't have the talent, you're not going to succeed. I think the footwork is more on Bryce just not being able to play at the speed of the NFL game, if you can't keep up with the speed at this level as a QB, your footwork is going to be terrible because you're always a step or two behind where you should be anyways. I'm not absolving McCown, I just think it's hard to judge his coaching job based on how far below average Bryce is in every single physical trait needed for the position.

The bolded part is EXACTLY why I think, in the end, it's Reich's fault, even if the pick was Tepper's. If Reich and the rest of the QB gurus on the staff went to Tepper and said, "look, you put us in this position by forcing the trade, you now need to listen to us and take the better QB, and if you don't and force us to take someone who isn't an NFL QB, we're going to quit because it's not what we agreed to come here for" They do that, and the pick is Stroud, 100% of the time. It would be the equivalent to holding a gun to Tepper's head and forcing him to take Stroud. If the brand new HC was willing to quit over taking Bryce over Stroud and the pick only happened because the owner wanted it, he wouldn't be able to sell Bryce to the fans or any future coach to replace Reich. You think things are bad from a PR standpoint right now, imagine hiring Reich and that all star staff, making the trade for #1, then the staff all quit days after the draft and publicly say it's because the owner forced them to take Bryce over the guy they wanted. It would have been unprecedented and no way for Tepper to come back from it, we'd be the red headed step child of the NFL that nobody wanted to coach or play for. I think Tepper said he wanted Bryce and Reich just went along with it instead of pushing back like he could and should have done. Threatening to quit over taking Bryce would have made enough of a statement to Tepper that he REALLY wasn't the guy, and Tepper would have relented, I have no doubt in my mind.

Dream is Ben Johnson, but he's going to be the #1 candidate on every team's board this offseason, he's literally going to have his pick of jobs that he wants. No way he decides to hitch his wagon to Bryce and this roster for a few extra million a year from Tepper, not when he's looking at a potential 30 year HC career in which he'll make WAY more money than he will by being overpaid by Tepper to be here for a few years, get fired, and ruin his HC future. Reality is it's likely to end up being Eric Bienemy, who is pretty much the last person I'd be okay with. He's interviewed for dozens of openings, never gets an offer because everyone knows his players hate him and nobody likes playing for him. That's fine when you're an OC with a strong HC that the players will run through a brick wall for, it doesn't work when you're the HC (unless you have decades of history like Belichek), he'd just be the new Josh McDaniels and get fired because the team doesn't play hard for him. We're not getting an up and comer, they're not risking their HC chances on this roster, which is why it will be someone like Bienemy, someone who's badly wanted to be a HC for years but can't actually get an offer to be one, he has to take what he can get, and this is it. But for the love of god, please don't let it happen. We set this franchise back 3-5 years by making the trade for Bryce. Firing Reich at this point just set us back another 1-2 years further (would have been better off firing him a month into next season). Hiring Bienemy will only add another year or two onto that total. We can't start to move forward until we stop moving backwards.

I still contend that even if Tepper "made the pick" that it is still likely Reich's fault. Reich and his staff were supposed to be QB gurus, if they went to Tepper and just said, "we can't take Bryce, he flat out doesn't have what it takes, Stroud is that much better of a prospect" and they really pushed the issue, Tepper would have been okay with it. If all these QB gurus went to him and strongly enough said that it had to be Stroud, I don't see how he could or would have forced Bryce on them since he'd know they were saying it because their own jobs depended on drafting the right guy. It also wouldn't have been hard for Reich to leak to the media that Tepper was trying to force Bryce on the staff when nobody wanted him, which if that happened, it likely would have forced Tepper's hand to let the staff make the pick anyways so he didn't look like an owner who made final personnel decisions.

My guess is Deuce was fired for one of 2 reasons... 1. Tepper did because he felt he had to in order to name anyone else the interim since Deuce was the Asst HC. 2. Deuce threw a fit about not being named interim since he was brought in as the Asst HC and then Tepper fired him over that (and I wouldn't blame Deuce for doing if that was the case). McCown is the interesting one considering how well regarded he was around the league as a potential fast track OC candidate. Best guess is he never wanted Bryce and was never quiet about it inside the building, so this was just a natural parting point with him. My only issue with getting rid of Bryce's QB coach is that it's only going to further hinder his development, which I don't put on the coaches so far, but on his lack of any even above average physical traits.

Trade back into the first with what?!?! More future firsts?!?!?! It clearly didn't work doing that when we traded up for the #1 pick, which is then costing us another #1 overall pick because of it. But sure, let's go ahead and give up another Top 5 pick next year and potentially more to move into the back end of the 1st round to take the 5th best QB prospect in this class and have even less draft picks to help build a team around them. That makes sense

LOL at anyone thinking we've hit rock bottom yet. No good coach is going to want to tie themselves to Bryce, I'd put it already at 50/50 shot that we are looking for a new coach again next offseason and a 90% chance that Tepper is just too afraid to fire someone 3 years in a row and then does it mid-season in 2025 (like he should have done with Reich next season). We already know Bryce isn't our future QB and are stuck with him for at least 1 more season as the starter, potentially 2. We're in for a very messy Burns situation this summer, there is no way he's signing here long term and he's not playing on the tag for us (I'd try to find a way to trade him for Aiyuk since the 49ers aren't going to be able to sign him long term, maybe the 49ers can convince him to take a chance on himself to play the season on the tag for them to make a SB run since they probably can't sign him long term either). Outside of an unknown cap casualty, there are no elite WRs in this years FA class (I don't count Higgins since he's going to get tagged and traded, not hit the open market) and we obviously don't have a first round pick to take an elite one that way either. We're still falling down the well and haven't reached the bottom yet, my hope is that it happens late next season, leading to us getting the #1 pick in 2025 to be able to replace Bryce with a real elite prospect at QB instead of someone with the arm strength of the average 4 star HS recruit.

No poo a lot of people would take one of the 32 HC jobs in the entire world. But that doesn’t mean anyone we should actually want as our next HC will be interested. Most coaches only get 1 shot at a HC job, the good ones aren’t going to risk that on Bryce and the state of this roster/franchise.

Johnson is going to end up getting the Chargers job, he’s 37 and has a long HC career ahead of him, no amount of money Tepper can offer him is going to get him to risk that career on Bryce

Stupid mistake, no up and coming candidate is going to risk their potentially one chance at a HC opportunity on Bruce and this roster Our only options will be coaches nobody else wants to hire as a HC, anyone with legit future HC chances will turn it down and wait, because they know most HC’s only get one shot at it. Just set this franchise back a few more years with this decision, so so dumb

Same, my only problem was that at least I had my fantasy season to care about, so it was easier to just be numb towards the Panthers and not care. But I got eliminated from the playoff race today thanks in large part to Thielen's worst game of the season, so it might just make me frustrated with the Panthers again in the coming weeks.

Don't think coaches have buyouts unless it's to leave for another job, which is generally a college thing. NFL coaches who get fired get their full contract paid out I believe, and most college ones do unless the school is able to find ways around it, which they sometimes do.

I blame whoever made the final call on Bryce If Tepper forced it and Reich tried to push back as much as possible and couldn't get him to budge, then I blame Tepper. If Tepper tried to force it and Reich really could have shut it down by saying he didn't believe in Young's abilities, but didn't, then I blame Reich. It was clear as day that he didn't have the physical traits necessary to make it in this league, no matter how amazing his brain was. It's also now clear that he has an amazing brain in the film room, like Luke did, but it doesn't translate to the field at the speed of the NFL game, at least not near enough to make up for his lack of physical traits. So whoever had the power to not draft Bryce but didn't use that power, that is who is to blame. Problem is we'll never know unless someone involved throws that person under the bus publicly down the line.

You’re not hitching your wagon to anything, this is already a disaster and nothing he could do would make him look bad for any future jobs, HC or otherwise. But if he has any success, it would be a big feather in his cap for a next job. Regardless, it will still be Deuce as interim if Reich gets fired

Not unless they also fire Deuce Staley You don't fire your HC and then promote a coordinator to interim when you have an AHC. And if they were to promote a coordinator, it would be the OC since Deuce could then take over OC duties, promoting the DC just causes more problems.

More like back to square zero or even negative one Reich aint it, but neither will whoever is willing to take the job while being willing to tie their HC career to Bryce. Firing Reich may be one step forward, but we're taking 5 steps back once we make a new hire, just wait until after next season for a new coach, it's by far the lesser of two evils.

My Sundays are now officially a bust as I'm getting knocked out of the playoff hunt in fantasy today, and the Panthers are going to be part of the reason why, went up against Hubbard while getting a dud from Thielen, reverse them and I'm still alive (although not having the balls to play Kyren Williams in his first game back really might be what beats me, as playing him over anyone I was considering might have been enough to get the win). Thank god my two other teams are both in title hunts right now to make up for this awful season and give me something to enjoy this winter. My Arizona Wildcats are a legit National Championship contender this season (and I'm sure there are some Duke fans here who know how accurate that is, LOL), while I've also become a massive Wrexham fan over the past year or so and they're in 2nd place right now as well.

Don't disagree with any of that, and I'm not in the slightest trying to support Reich or say anything of the sort. It has NOTHING to do with Reich and has EVERYTHING to do with what it would do to the future of this franchise. Reich is A problem, but he isn't THE problem, and firing him only creates more problems than it solves, problems that will further hinder trying to fix this franchise. It's why I'm openly and already saying that we should bring him back but fire him a month into the season when we suck again. Looking for a new HC is a bad, bad, bad idea this offseason, it should be done after next year (and not both).

Yep, I'd also bet that any coach who would take the job would do so under 1 condition only, if they want to bench Bryce for Dalton (or a new backup that is signed) then they are allowed to do so. I could very well see a scenario where that happens and it ends up improving us to being good enough to end up with like the 5-7 pick in the draft and screwing ourselves out of finding a long term replacement for Bryce in the 2025 draft. It sucks, but we have to embrace the suck and play for a losing season next year, it really is the best and fastest way at turning this franchise's long term hopes around, and it angers me so much when fans can't see the forest through the trees to be able to understand that.

I've said it for well over a month, we can't fire Reich because we won't be able to have any worthwhile HC willing to bet his career on Bryce and this roster. We need to keep Reich for next year, we can fire him a month into the season for all I care, but we aren't getting a good HC this offseason and we don't want to be the team that fires their HC in 3 straight offseasons while also having a sorely depleted roster. And frankly, our best bet at being able to turn this franchise around in the next 5 years is to be HORRIBLE next year and get the #1 pick in the draft without trading away assets so we can replace Bryce ASAP People can hate Reich all they want, but the FACT remains that firing him now or after this season will only set our franchise further back in the long term, as odd as it sounds, it's the truth.

Sweet jesus, you really want to replace our crappy QB with another crappy QB who is going to lead his team to back-to-back Top 5 picks in the draft and is getting replaced because of it? While also giving up our 2nd best draft pick at the same time? We can't look at replacing Bryce until 2025 as there won't be a long term FA option we can sign (or would even want to sign here) and we don't have the draft capital to get a replacement either. At this point we just have to hope we end up in position to draft someone with elite upside in 2025 and we don't have to wait until 2026 (although I wouldn't hate that as it would open up the possibility of Arch Manning, assuming he becomes what everyone expects). We screwed the pooch despite 90% of fans being able to see this coming with Bryce, it's beyond fathomable that they could convince themselves to make that trade and then take the biggest gamble in the history of the NFL draft by taking someone who was going to have to be the biggest outlier in the history of the league to be successful. We put ourselves here, we now have to live with the consequences and go about a re-build the smart way instead of constantly trying to fit the square peg in the round hole by any means necessary.

Doesn't necessarily mean he audibled Probably a better chance that 2 plays were called in the huddle and he just killed it to the second play, which may have been the right call based on the look the defense gave. The problem is if that second play that was called was that screen. It may be semantics, but there is a significant difference, if that was a second play called in the huddle, I wouldn't call that an audible as I'm sure there were specific things he was supposed to look for and then check to that play if he did/didn't see them.

Great route running can't "just be taught in the NFL", if it could, there would be way more quality route runners in the league, far too many WRs crap out because they can't figure it out. It's so much more than counting your steps and making a cut that it's not even funny. It should be borderline illegal to honestly think great route running can easily be taught once you get to the NFL, it's frankly nonsense to think that. Not that it can't be, but it's pretty rare for a bad route runner in college to develop it at a high level once they get to the NFL. It's about proper technique off the line, being able to make your cuts at full speed without needing too many chop steps to get in and out of it, using your upper body to help sell your move to the defender, making your cut at a 45 degree angle on this route or a 90 degree angle on that route instead of 55 and 100 degree cuts. All those little things are what makes someone a great route runner compared to a poor one, and so much of it can't "just be taught" as a lot of it is instincts, discipline, precision, repetition, and sometimes just a flat out natural talent for it. Cowing runs great routes, he's savvy and knows how to find the holes and sit in them, just like Thielen has done for us this year, much of that can't be taught at the NFL level, you develop it over time and bring it with you to the NFL, not learn it there.

I’ve never once said he’s a #1, I’ve actually said multiple times that he’s meant for the shifty slot role, essentially the #3 or #4 WR on the roster. Yea, I agree, Cowing will never be a #1 WR in the NFL, but he’s going to be a very successful slot WR in the league. And route running ability is extremely important and it clearly can’t just be taught to anyone, it’s a reason so many WRs fail to make it, because they just can’t run crisp routes and get open. It’s the reason someone like Thielen still is able to do what he does. Plus, Cowing has like a 5 year old son, it’s why he transferred to Arizona, to be closer to him and to help his NFL draft stock increase. He’s one of those guys who already has a family to feed and is going to work a little harder than the next guy because he has extra motivation to make it in the league. I think he’d be a perfect mid round pick for us, but as you said, clearly not meant to be a future #1. And T-Mac was more of a joke/pipe dream as he’ll be a 1st rounder in 2025 and I think we’ll get that #1 guy this off-season and/or need to use that 2025 1st on a new QB anyways.