tukafan21

Nah, not starting him over Mac There isn't a single week 1 starter in the league that Bryce would start over based on the way he's played so far this year, he's been the worst QB in the league in a season that has had Zach Wilson get benched for some players I can't even name.

I said it's not THE problem, not that it wasn't A problem. The height doesn't help, but if he at least had some physical traits that were even above average, it wouldn't be as big of a problem. Kyler's height isn't a factor because he has a rocket for an arm and is extremely fast/quick, Bryce just doesn't have that to him.

Tuned them out a while ago. Don't get me wrong, I still love the Panthers and always will, but they're just not worth me caring about them right now. Not when my two other teams I follow the most right now are about to be ranked #1 in the nation tomorrow (Arizona Basketball) and sitting in 2nd place in their league (Wrexham AFC). And thank god for those two teams or my sporting fandom would be hell right now, but they give me something to be happy about through hopefully April of next year if things go well.

His height isn't the problem, it's his lack of any even average physical traits for an NFL QB, every physical trait of his is below average to bad. It's clear the game moves too fast for him compared to college, and I don't mean mentally, I mean physically. He doesn't have the arm to get the ball to the spot before the defender, he doesn't have the quickness needed to evade the rush at this level, and he sure as hell doesn't have the strength to break away from defenders when they get a hand on him. Yes, he can be a serviceable starting QB in this league with the right team around him, but that's his max potential. That's the type of guy who bounces around from team to team as an occasional starter or high end backup, not someone you trade away your future to take at #1 overall. It was a mistake, the sooner people realize it, the easier it will be for them to cope with it. Trying to compare it to past bad rookie seasons for great players who had numerous WOW moments in each game, when Bryce hasn't had 1 all season, is just poorly flawed.

More like a franchise killer, especially for anyone who trades a haul to move up to take him, oh wait.......

No you don't, it will just be wasting our time when we could spend it on someone more realistic. Evans is either staying in TB or going somewhere to try and chase another ring, he's not just going to sign with the highest bidder.

You mean the combine Bryce did everything at his pro day, but since he didn't throw back to back with the other QB's at the combine, his lack of an even average arm was kept hidden enough to fool people into thinking he could make it in this league.

WOW Instead of taking the easy pass for the first down, he directs Thielen down the field and then throws up a dead duck. But sure, tell me about how he has an adequate arm

There would be ZERO interest in us for Evans. The guy is a first ballot HOFer who is looking at his last chance at a payday, if he leaves TB, he's getting paid no matter where he goes. At his age, if he leaves the franchise he's played his whole career with, it's to chase another ring, not get paid to lose.

Exactly There is no reason that ball shouldn't have been out further for him to run under it in stride, not like it was THAT deep of a pass, but ole mr noodle arm can only do so much. Even if "good plays" aren't that good. Yes, a lot needs to be fixed around him and he can improve as well, but he's not a franchise QB and he's never going to be.

What world are you living in that you honestly can say it wasn't talked about?!?!?!?! Seriously, talk about living in a made up reality

It was widely talked about but brushed aside because it was "adequate enough to work with his super brain" Not a single scout or analyst ever said he had an even above average arm, I'd doubt many even said "average" as I bet "adequate" was the best adjective ever used to describe his arm, which is just the polite way of saying "not good" when talking about someone many think should be the #1 overall pick.

And that's my point, you can fix a lot of things, you can't fix a noodle arm on someone who is 5'10" and 200 lbs if soaking wet with cans of soup in his pockets. And saying "bottom half" is very generous, even if you want to find others with weak arms to debate who has the weakest, there aren't even 5 starting QB's you could find to put into that discussion with a straight face.

Even with perfect textbook footwork, he doesn't have the arm strength needed to make the throws at this level, that's the problem. Arm strength can overcome poor footwork, great footwork can't overcome an inadequate arm strength. Yes it can help, and yes he has footwork issues, but those are fixable issues, you can't make this kid grow a howitzer out of his right shoulder. Sure he can add muscle, but his frame will only allow so much of it, he will never even have an average NFL arm strength, not in today's NFL. I'll admit there are a lot of fixable things with Bryce and ways he can improve (I don't necessarily think he will, but it's possible). But his arm strength just isn't one of them, it will always be one of the worst in the leagues, it's not really debatable to anyone who has watched him play with an objective eye.

They're still backup QBs, it's like saying any of our guards right now are "starting NFL guards" No, they're not, they're backups who are needing to start because the starers are injured. I also don't think he has a better arm than Jones, sure, maybe there is a debate about Ridder, but if that's the hill you're going to die on, that he MAYBE has the 30th or 31st strongest arm in the league, then I think you're missing the plot. You don't trade everything we did and draft a QB at #1 who MIGHT have a stronger arm than a couple of QB's in the league, it's a joke. There's nothing wrong with flat out saying, "we screwed up the pick, I hope he proves that wrong and finds a way to turn his career around, but he's just not the guy"

Arm strength is maybe his biggest overall problem because it's the root cause of a lot of his issues. When you don't have the arm you need to make the throws you make, it changes everything else. It changes the plays you can call, it changes the throws he can even attempt to make and thus causes him to make poor decisions because he flat out doesn't have the ability to make a throw if he doesn't have a perfect base underneath him. Because of that he always feels the need to pull the ball down and move in the pocket, which he also isn't fast or strong enough to do and it leads to sacks and throwaways. Where in the same situation, 90% of the other QB's in this league can still attempt the throw because they have the arm strength to throw off base. No, maybe they don't complete the passes every time (although they do at times), but they at least can attempt them, he flat out can't and it has a cascading affect on the rest of his play/decisions.

I watch more NFL than 99% of this board What starting QB in this league has a worse arm than Bryce? And again, as I said in my other post, I'm not talking about someone who is a backup who is getting a start because of injury (so whoever is starting for the Bengals doesn't count), but "normal" starting QBs. Closest I could think of is Pickett, but even his arm is stronger (again, not strong, but stronger than Bryce's).

So you're saying Bryce has a starting NFL QB caliber arm?

I don't nitpick, I call it like I see it. I spent all of 2015 saying Rivera was an awful coach who was going to cost us big time at some point. That he wasn't a good game day coach, that he can't adjust in game, that we kept winning in spite of him, not because of him, that our future HOF players were carrying the load. Then he went out there and crapped the bed in the SB, in a game we were the better team and should have won. Look, I want Bryce to prove me wrong, I don't want this franchise to keep moving backwards, but he was an awful pick and I'm going to call out high school level throws in the NFL, completed or not. He literally has one of the worst arms of any regularly starting QB I can ever remember (i.e. not career backups who get a start). We traded our future away for that, it makes no sense and I'll call it out every time I see crap throws like that.

Doesn't change that he has the worst arm of any starting QB in the league by a wide margin

The throw just now and the one to Thielen on 3rd down earlier in the drive are perfect examples of Bryce's noodle arm. 31 out of 32 QB's in this league make those same 2 throws on a line, zip it in there, Bryce can't even do that and has to just loft it over there because it's the only way he can complete those those to the sidelines. I swear, this kid is just that, a kid, he's not a grown man capable of being an NFL QB

Not really sure it's fair to compare him to Dell, he's like Puka in that the entire NFL missed on his evaluation. Dell likely would have actually fallen further in the draft if not for Stroud anyways, after the Texans drafted him, he asked them to draft Dell on day 2. They had created a friendship while preparing for the draft and worked out a lot together and realized they had a great connection, so he went to the team and told them about it after they took him. Which also is what makes it worse that we ended up with Bryce, as if we had taken Stroud, probably a good chance we also ended up with Dell.

I hope not, he's another that I don't think is really made for the NFL, more of a college coach. If he goes back to the NFL, it will be with a team that is already built and just needs a new voice to try and lead them, not with a mess of a franchise that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Nah... Luke was just a different breed and knew that he couldn't continue to play the game with the same reckless abandon that he played it with while not putting his brain at significant risk after multiple concussions already. Luke was never going to play at even 95% of himself, those concussions was going to make him completely change the way he played the game and would be more like 60-70% of what he used to be. Granted, that would still be a Pro Bowl level LB, but I think he knew he just couldn't play the game that way so he had to retire to save himself.

No it won't, it will slightly help, but it won't fix poo in time for this hire. Even hiring a legit and competent GM before an HC this offseason, it doesn't solve the real problem, that we're tied to Bryce for 2024, no 1st round pick in 2024, and a depleted roster. I don't care if we could somehow steal Howie Roseman from the Eagles, no decent HC candidate wants to step into that situation this offseason. Which is why I've been saying for weeks that firing Riech right now is 1 step forward but 3 steps backwards, it solves one problem while creating a whole new mess of others that I don't see a logical path forward from, namely, we can't attract someone we actually would want long term as HC this offseason. Short of Tepper guaranteeing this new HC that they won't get fired after this season, that they have free reign to replace Bryce with our 2025 1st, and another guarantee of 2 or 3 full seasons after that point before he'd consider firing them... nobody is tying their HC career to Bryce, not when most HC's only get 1 shot at it. They'd be taking a job where they're on the hot seat before they even move into the city and have Bryce as their QB while on said hot seat... who in their right mind wants that?!?!?!