tukafan21

I think if there was one team to want to play, it would be the Seahawks and you hope Darnold playing on the road in a big game looks like the Darnold of old in those situations. Hope Horn can take away JSN from him and force Darnold to beat you elsewhere. I think that would be much better than playing a Ben Johnson coached team, who you know is going to pull stuff out in the playoffs that the other team has no way of being ready for.

If you're talking about just the NFL's Offensive Player of the Week, then sure, I'd agree. But for me, and maybe that's the problem and it's how I've interpreted this award, it's more about a statistical excellence than overall impact on the game.

Honestly, the lack of yards and the mental inconsistency aren't even my biggest problems with him. It always has and always will be his lack of an ability to drive the ball as required on this level. He can't throw from one hash to the opposite sideline 20 yards downfield on a line drive. That's a 40ish yard air travel throw and the only way he's able to make it is with a touch throw. Which in turn is from a lack of overall arm strength, which also rears its ugly head on off base/balance throws. And it's not even that he's bad when throwing on the move, he's actually pretty good at it, but he NEEDS to get back into a perfectly balanced position on the throw or else he doesn't have the arm strength to get it where it needs to be. In this day and age, you need QB's who can make off balance throws that don't come up 5 yards short of the reciever every single time.

Except you literally didn't say that, all you said was 200 or less was the norm this year, lol (although I'd also argue using the word "norm" is pretty equivalent to saying "average") The discussion at hand was "is 206 yards an underachieving game or not" Just because this year is likely to see more sub 200 yard games than 300+ yard games, doesn't make 206 yards an over achieving or even acceptable yardage total. (and totally as an aside, since this is more of a generic discussion right now, but at the same time, 206 yards being the 3rd highest total of the season is not acceptable for a QB in their 3rd season and supposed to be a long term solution)

Guy should be in contention for getting fired before he's in contention for COY. He's a HC who made his bones as a QB/Passing coach, but we're winning because of our defense and running game, despite him doing his best efforts to mess with the running game mid season. He gets 100% credit for the very impressive turnaround he's done on our locker room culture, no question about it and I'm very thankful for that as it was really ugly before him. But that only goes so far for me, and I can't stand his game planning and play calling, they're atrocious. In today's NFL, if you can't be a great game day coach, you're never going to win at a high level. I'm obviously one of those who want to move on from Bryce this offseason, but I want to move on from Canales significantly more. Good guy, great locker room leader, but I just don't see it from him as an actual coach, especially one who is basically also the OC for all intents and purposes. There aren't a lot of Dan Campbell's out there who can be a great coach just as a leader, and they need outstanding coordinators and players to make it work.

But are they? Or are there just more instances of throwing sub 200 than in the past, so it feels like they are the norm, but in reality, it's just that there are more than there used to be so it makes you think they're the normal game, but still the minority? Because the stats don't agree with you, there are only 8 teams averaging less than 200 yards passing this year. Yes, passing yards in general are a bit down this year, but sub 200 games is not the norm for teams with a good QB

In today's game, it's very much a situation based thing as to whether it was good or bad to see that many moves. If the player just keeps transferring on up, maybe say he started at a meh mid major school, then transferred to a high mid major, then to a solid power 5 (or is it 4 now, I have no idea these days lol), and then to an NC contender, I don't see that as bad. But if it's someone who just bounced around for the money or to avoid position competition, I'd view that as a red flag. One transfer to be able to get more playing time I get, but if you keep doing it, you're either not good enough or afraid of competing, or both.

Well sure, but that's completely beyond the point in that post and this particular back and forth discussion. These last few posts were purely about his comment of "206 yards is not an underachieving post" and nothing else besides that, nothing to do with this award.

There is no way I'm going to try and do the research into this, but I wonder what the answer to this question would be if it wasn't just where a player finished their career, but just played in general. In today's NCAA portal landscape, some NFL teams could be carrying like 15-20 players who all played for the same school at some point, lol

This is some weird mental gymnastics you're trying to do here by now twisting it into extrapolating one game's stats out for a full season. Especially since your post that I was responding to never mentioned TD's, you simply said that 206 yards wouldn't be a bad passing game in today's NFL. I'm not extrapolating anything out to a full season, I was responding specifically to you saying in today's NFL, 206 passing yards isn't an underachieving stat line. So unless you don't think being 20th in something out of 32 would be "underachieving", all I did was point out how the facts of today's NFL season contradict what you said. That throwing for 206 yards in a game is clearly an underachieving stat line for today's NFL. And if your next argument is going to be "well you're looking at season long passing averages and comparing that to one game", then that also just hurts your argument. As if you're trying to say a one game performance is deserving of winning an award, then it should fall in the upper levels of the season long averages, not the bottom.

206 yards per game would be the 20th rated passing game in the NFL this year. I'd say if you are ranking 20th as a team in any category in the NFL, you're underachieving and need to improve there. There are also only 3 teams I'd say ranked below that who are comfortable with their QB situation moving forward, MAYBE a 4th depending who you ask. Two of those teams are the Ravens and Eagles, who have 2 of the best rushing attacks in the league. Another is the Commanders, who have missed their starting QB for much of the season to injury. The 4th would be the Jags, who seem to have a fan base that would rather move on than continue with Lawrence. Most Dolphins fans are very ready to move on from Tua, and it's probably too soon to say either way on Cam Ward for the Titans, the rest all are looking for changes at the position moving forward.

LOL, finally something we can 100% agree on. I almost quoted it and said, "so you've only seen less than 5 dart throws in your life?"

Fair point, but then again, we're getting into semantics and then where maybe everyone views things differently. If you're factoring in situation, I'd call it a "play" and not a "throw", and you can't deny, I've said numerous times in this thread that I was giving him full credit for making the throw in that situation. Personally, I view a "play" and a "throw" as totally separate things. A play takes everything into consideration, a throw is literally just about the throw itself and the physical skill required to make it.

Alabama just seems like the easy answer to choose for any team these days. After that, I'd guess ND is on the list just since we seem to have all their TE's in school history on the roster right now. Probably also South Carolina Then the last I actually feel like I remember seeing the Panthers tweet out a picture of players all from one school on our roster right now and thinking "man that's a random school to have so many players from" Was it Ole Miss?

That's still semantics then as to what you'd call this specific pass. My point was THIS is the type of pass that deserves superlatives to be used to describe it, whatever you want to call said superlative is sure, personal opinion. But that's my generic stance in this thread, the pass needs to be special to be called "slinging dots downfield" or whatever else you want to call it. Those two TD passes were certainly good passes, I'm not trying to say they were bad. But in reality, they were pretty standard throws for an NFL QB to be able to make (and honestly, pretty standard for most college QB's as well), hence why I can't agree with calling it dot, dart, dime, or whatever else you want to use.

Sorry this is 4 yards instead of 3, but I think that's still the "same thing" in this instance... you wouldn't call this pass a dot, dart, or anything else like that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_no5YnIrAb4 4 yard pass he had to get around a DL's helmet, over another defenders arm, out of reach of the DB, and still allow the receiver to make the catch. THAT pass was a dot/dart/dime, and if you disagree with that, then sure, we'll never see eye to eye on this one.

I think it's more situation specific than throw specific. A "dot", "dart", "dime", whatever you want to call it is all the same to me. It could be a 3 yard pass or a 30 yard pass, but it's more about fitting it in a tight window, getting it just over or just under a defender's reach, putting it in the perfect place for a WR to make a back shoulder toe tap catch on the sideline, etc. But in general, if we're talking about the type of passes for those 2 TD's, a touch pass where the WR is running past the DB and no safety help over the top, that needs to be a 40, if not 50 yards downfield for me to ever call a throw like that a "dot", "dart", "dime", etc. Throwing that pass 20 yards is basically just practice routes against air. They get credit for making the play in the pressure situation of a game, but I just could never justify calling a pass like that one of those terms, even if it was in the final minute of the SB to win the game. I'll also say that Bryce has made many of these throws in his career, I've always said his biggest strength is placement of touch passes. I just wouldn't have ever classified those two TD's this week as such.

I'd be very interested in seeing someone point me to a post saying any Panthers fans are unhappy with winning? We're happy the team is winning, but we're still unhappy with Bryce's play ON THE WHOLE. Yes, we recognize he's had a handful of good games, but even in them, he's still not making the type of plays/throws that high level QB's make, at least not on a consistent basis, one or two of those throws every few weeks does not make him a high level QB. Especially when every single one of those "high level throws" he's ever had are touch passes, as he's physically unable to properly drive the ball downfield into small windows, which for me, has and will always be my biggest issue with Bryce. Many of us are also able to look at what we see in front of us on the field and extrapolate that out to the future, and we don't see Bryce's play as a way for sustainable success. If he was anyone else other than our own #1 overall draft pick, say if he was a mid rounder now in his 3rd season here or if he was a FA we picked up at some point, the same fans bowing down to him right now would be calling for him to be replaced and saying he was holding back the team.

No, it's that there are a lot of us who think we're winning in spite of Bryce and that he is not, and can not, succeed at a high level in this league. The reason we're becoming more vocal the last month or so is because we see the writing on the wall, and that the team's success in spite of him is going to get his 5th year extension picked up and brought as our starter despite his actual play not being worthy of either. But I KNOW there are many Panthers fans who want to see Bryce succeed so badly that they are completely blind to the glaringly obvious issues he has and have wet dreams over mediocre games. I'm sorry, but I'm just so sick of people making comments like this. It's so asinine to think the anti Bryce crowd is willing to spend as much time as they do watching the games, following the team, talking on here or other places online, spend our money on team gear, etc, but because we don't think a player is good enough to be our long term QB and give specific and legitimate reasons why, that we want to see the Panthers tank. It's just such nonsense I will fully give him credit that he's improved in certain areas, particularly turnovers. But small improvements in some areas don't make up for his severe limitations and issues in other critical aspects. Saying these things doesn't mean we want the Panthers to fail, it just means we have objective opinions and aren't afraid to voice them, even if unpopular with a segment of our fan base. He is 23rd in QB Rating, there are only 3 QB's in the league with at least 10 starts who have less passing yards per game (not to mention he's 29th in the league in YPG overall). But some fans here think he's playing at some elite level and has proven he deserves to be our long term solution.

Because I was responding directly to someone pointing out how Maye is an MVP contender without throwing for 300 yards this season. That particular post had nothing to do with this weekly award, it was solely pointing out the craziness of that statement. I also don't think that statement means what you think it does. The "meaningful community support" I'm pretty sure is just a reference to it being a fan voted thing, as it's not like they talk about what these guys do in their communities when they're nominated for it and a factor in why they were nominated.

I don't think he's worthy of being nominated for the award this week, even with those very broken down stats. He had a great statistical game, I'm not saying he didn't, I just see how it was a Top 6 statistical performance this week. Brown's 10 receptions for 132 Yards and 2 TDs is so much better than anything Bryce put out there statistically today. It also means you're giving more credit to the "3 TDs of 30+ yards" than Mahomes throwing for 25% more yards and an extra TD, which is something else I'd disagree on, if you need to break down how long a TD pass was to give reasoning as to why lesser stats were actually better than someone else's, then I think you're hurting your own argument. And yes, I know I've been a very vocal anti Bryce guy, but this has NOTHING to do with that. I just view this as an award that is purely statistically based, and if anything, could (or maybe should) be done blind and only looking at box score output without knowing players or game outcomes. And in that view, I don't see how Bryce had a game worthy of being nominated for the award this week, that there were at least 6 better purely statistical performances, that's all.

Again, as I've noted in my other posts in this thread, we're not talking about the actual MVP award, we're talking about an award who's purpose is to award great statistical performances. And beyond that, you used a terrible example to try and support Bryce here. No, he doesn't have a 300 yard game, but he's also currently leading the league in passing yards (yes, he'll fall a couple spots while on by this week, but he's still currently 4th in the league in YPG), while Bryce is currently 19th. Bryce just threw for 206 yards, his 3rd most yards in a game this year. Drake has only thrown for less than 206 yards one time all year. Against us, in a game they won by 29 points and he went 14/17 for 203 with 2 TDs and another rushing TD on top. Drake also only has 3 games this season having thrown less than 259 yards. Bryce has 5 career games over 259 yards passing.

But we're not talking about someone's role or importance to a team, that's an entirely different conversation. In general, when you're just talking about building a roster or how a team looks, or anything along those lines, then I 100% agree with you. But this is for the Air and Ground Player of the Week. To me, I've always interpreted that as who had the best passing/rushing/recieving performances of the week, completely separate and irrelevant to a team's success/failure in that week. I wouldn't take the same issue with it if someone said he should be nominated for Offensive Player of the Week, that would be an award where the things you're talking about should be factored in. I just feel this is not that type of weekly award where role or team outcome has any factor in it, and it's who had the best statistical output that week.

1 million percent agree. But this isn't "football", it's the "air and ground player of the week" I think you should ONLY be looking at stats for something like that, and maybe that's just a personal way of interpreting this award.

hahaha, love it I was actually just talking to someone yesterday about what his season would be like if he had fallen to the Cowboys instead. They then don't trade for Pickens and he falls into that role with them and maybe is making a run for the best rookie season for a WR ever. But I'll still take him on our Panthers over him having a historic season for someone else, LOL