tukafan21

Except he's only gotten better because those first two years had him on a path to be a bigger bust than Jamarcus Russell, he's still one of the worst starting QB's in the league this year even if he has improved each year. Improvement that still has you as one of the worst at whatever you're doing doesn't necessarily mean you should be given longer to prove yourself. How many teams right now would swap QB situations with us? I think no more than 7, and quite honestly as few as possibly only 2, if any at all. Jets, Browns, Saints, Raiders, Falcons, Jags, and Cardinals are really the only teams that I think would even entertain a swap. And of them, the Jets, Browns, and Raiders might all prefer to just stand pat and see how their high draft slots might play out while the Falcons still might prefer to see what happens with Penix instead. Then the Jags and Cardinals (fan bases at least) are so fed up with their QB play given the contracts, that they might make the swap just to get out of those contracts.

I didn't say I thought throwing it was a bad decision, I said I thought not running those 3-5 yard routes to pick up the 1st down wasn't a great call. Yes the play worked out, but I didn't love the play call, it's like when a bad shooter is taking a 3 and you're yelling "no no no" as they're going up and then they make it so it worked out. That's still gambling on them to make the play and I take no issue with that. But I just went and watched the play again, we had T-Mac and XL running downfield crossing routes, Coker went in motion behind the LOS and then moved up a yard or two after the snap but not even past the LOS, Sanders chipped the DE and then ran a drag route right long the LOS. The play worked out, but I don't really like that particular play call and route tree with the game on the line on a 4th and 2. If you want to send one route downfield as an option that's fine, but there were only 2 realistic target options with that route tree and they were both 15-20 yards downfield. This is just before Bryce is going to throw it. You have 2 players off screen downfield, one player who ran a route that never had a chance to get open and didn't even get to the 1st down line, another player just at the line to gain but late in the route because of a chip (and the worst pass catcher of the 4). Do you really think that was a "good play call" in that situation? I very much do not think so, I think it was a terrible call that just happened to turn out well for us. Which is great that it worked out, but it's one of a whole lot of examples from both this week and the whole season as to why I'm not a Canales fan. Had we not converted the play, the discussion wouldn't be about Bryce making a bad throw as much as a terrible play call in the situation, same goes for the Coker play.

I do not think it's at all possible for him to play well enough to earn that contract this offseason. He could play lights out the rest of the season and we win the division and I still don't think he'd have earned it. That would have earned the 5th year being picked up no question (something I don't think he's earned as of now), but not a big extension. He's 2.5 years into his career and still only has a handful of good to great games, even a real strong finish to this season where he's been very up and down until now, isn't worthy of a $40+ million contract. Actually play lights out the rest of the year and I admit he earned the 5th year being picked up, but short of him being the reason for an actual SB run this year, there's nothing he can do to make me say he's earned an extension. He'd need to prove it for a full season next year to say he's earned that.

I'm not so sure the extra week for Canales to make adjustments and prepare is a good thing for us. We're at our best when he keeps things simple, it's when he tries to get too cute with things that everything goes to hell. I even was calling it out in the game thread today, I thought Canales called a terrible game at critical times, but the players made great plays to bail him out. I thought the Coker TD was a blind squirrel finding a nut, calling a one step drop and throw 20 yards downfield on 4th and short was so dumb. But more than that it was all the 3rd down runs up the middle that got stuffed, but our RB's made great plays to bounce around and find ways to get the 1st down. It just always feels like Canales is trying to outsmart the other team but isn't smart enough to do it. Even the T-Mac TD the more I think about it didn't seem like a great call, it was 4th and 2 and it was mostly a bunch of downfield routes. Why weren't we running the 3-4 yard routes needed to get the 1st down and move the chains on such a critical play?

It's also just like the Eagles and Chiefs last year where we almost beat the elite teams, that they spend the week looking at the game as a free win and aren't fully locked in themselves. You combine that with us playing loose and it's what leads to these games being close that could go either way at the end. So yes, credit to us for finishing those games of this year unlike last year, but I'm still not remotely sold on Canales or Bryce deserving to be back next year.

I'll also put it this way, his best throw of the night and the closest one to "slinging a dot" wasn't either of the TD throws, it was the final 1st down throw to Coker to seal the game. But again, I wouldn't call that throw "slinging a dot" either, that was just a great clutch throw to which he gets 100% credit for making. It would be like a RB breaking two arm tackles by CB's in a game and then afterwards saying that RB was trucking guys all game long. No, there is no definition of "trucking guys" but everyone knows it's not slipping out of a couple arm tackles, it's where you're running guys over and knocking them down.

I get it, but it's just like "dropping dimes" doesn't have a definition either but is saying the same thing. They're like what the Supreme Court said about Porn, "you know it when you see it" And I think you have to be watching with some crazy ridiculous Bryce goggles to think he was "slinging dots downfield" as the OP said. I'm not taking anything away from Bryce for making the necessary throw in those situations and got two TDs on two 4th down plays. But they weren't "sligning dots downfield" and they weren't "dropping dimes", they were pretty basic throws for any NFL QB, not even starting QB, just any QB. They were 15-20 yard touch throws for the WR to run under it, with no safety over the top of them or need to let them get down in bounds. They were in essence practice throws with no DB covering them, just in a high pressure game situation. 100% perfect throws for what was needed, which in itself is a credit to Bryce as he's struggled with that on easy throws in the past. And hell, this literally might have been his best game of his career all things considered. But "slinging dots downfield" is just an absurd statement to say after today, sorry. To reach a phrase like that, you need to be firing balls into tight windows downfield and/or tight coverage. Not throwing a lofted touch pass 20 yards with no fear of a DB making a play on it and just needing to let the WR run under it. Credit for executing under the pressure of the situation, but the throws themselves were as standard as they come at this level (or even college).

Bryce had his 3rd most passing yards in a game this season today. Bryce threw for 206 yards today. That is all.

Yes, young teams need to learn how to win close games. But an overwhelming number of wins (or losses) in 1 score games is usually more about just better luck than anything else. It's why those teams with such a drastic W-L record in 1 score games are usually widely predicted by experts to have the opposite happen in the following season, and it goes for both wins or losses (see the Vikings and Chiefs this year for example).

Honest question, how many games in his career has he not even had the opportunity to do this? If we're down 1 point entering the 4th quarter and we score a TD on the first play of the quarter and then never give up the lead, that counts as a GWD for this stat. The Falcons shutout this year obviously is one, but outside of that, have we ever entered the 4th quarter with a lead and held it until the game was over? I'd love to know how many chances Peyton and Allen even had compared to Bryce at the same time frame.

Doesn't Trust Bryce Dan?

THIS times a million. We can want to see us win games while also having objective opinions about Bryce and what he can or can't be long term. The problem is we're seeing the things that show us what he can't be long term, while we're also winning games, which makes for a very weird feeling. We're not upset that we're winning games, but we're concerned that we're winning games in spite of Bryce and that it will lead to him being kept around and only delaying our eventual re-set at QB (and HC) even further down the line and that frustrates us.

Exactly, and it's why I was saying before the season and all season long so far, that I don't care about our W-L record this year, never did. This year was all about showing actual growth and consistency on the field, not a handful of great plays that make people gloss over all the bad and wrongly make them think he's some stud, which unfortunately is exactly what is happening. I wanted Bryce to either step up and unquestionably prove he's a long term high end solution at QB or completely implode and prove he must move on from him this offseason. Unfortunately he's done the exact opposite and done just enough to make a large number of fans think he's proven to be the guy, despite actually showing more proof that he's not the guy and we win in spite of him, not because of him. This season is setting us up for a rough next couple of years when we pick up or extend Bryce, keep Canales around, but we still don't turn into a true contender in the next few years and then still have to start over again, instead of just getting started on the re-set this offseason or going into next year as a true contender.

Eh, he's catching them napping because they know he can't make those throws when they properly defend it. That doesn't seem sustainable for long term success, nor is it a recipe for being able to make those throws when the other team knows you have to make them. It basically only works in a game where you're able to run the ball at will, if you aren't doing it, the defense doesn't need to worry about overloading the box thinking Bryce can't make a throw on them.

Oh I totally get what you're saying, and maybe I'm wrong, but it's just really felt like that all year long to me. When we have 3rd and 5 and we have a pass play, one of 3 things seems to happen. 1. Bryce stares T-Mac down and throws it to him no matter what. 2. Bryce takes the snap and immediately throws a quick pass to the opposite side of the field T-Mac is lined up on. 3. Bryce goes through 2 or 3 progressions before throwing, all to the opposite side T-Mac lined up on and then throws that way too. I can't ever remember seeing a team with such a clear cut #1 WR who runs theirs obvious 3rd down passing situations like this. They usually pepper that player with those targets, or if not, he's still the first read in case he's going to be open and they throw it that way if he is, if not they then progress through to the other guys. That's why I think they're dictating to Bryce on most pass plays if T-Mac is an option on it. It's like the coaches are trying to out-smart the other team's DC by saying "they think we're looking at T-Mac here, so I'm not even going to allow Bryce to look at him and make them waste defensive attention on him while I'm always having Bryce look elsewhere."

Nobody? T-Mac was always the pick, because, duh.

Yes and no, and that's what I go back to what I was saying in the game thread today about him "locking in on T-Mac at times" I don't think it was a wrong or late read, because I don't think it was a read play, I think the play was called to throw that pass to T-Mac and there was no other option. It's like they tell Bryce one of two things on 90% of pass plays. 1. This is a non T-Mac play, don't even look his way, he's just out there for the defense to give him attention. 2. This is a T-Mac pass play, you're throwing to him and nobody else so don't bother going through your progressions. It's why I don't think Bryce has an issue of locking onto him when he shouldn't be, I think it's 100% Canales telling him when he is or isn't throwing to T-Mac and now allowing Bryce to make opposing decisions on those plays based on what he sees.

Nobody is bashing the throws, but trying to say the throws were something other than what they were and using it as the proof that he should be our long term solution is what many of us view as unbearable. Even if those were the two greatest throws in the history of the NFL, 2 throws a game, or even worse, 2 throws every few weeks, is not a sustainable way to build a long term successful team. We're not bashing Bryce to bash Bryce, we point out legitimate concerns we objectively see with our own eyes and project how they might affect our/his future.

There's no question he has a clutch gene to him, but he also as an equally as large, if not larger, "fug up gene" and in the end, that's going to cost us more games than the other wins us.

Multiple people have said in this thread how those weren't dots, but sure, it's just me who can't see it. Nobody is bashing the throw like you seem to think we're doing, we're just pointing out that you're trying to call it something that it just wasn't.

Oh I get what he was saying, but it really was more applicable 2 decades ago than today. In today's game you get last year's Vikings. A team that might put up a good record when the ball bounces their way enough times, but in the end, that QB isn't going to be able to will the team to victories when it's needed and they're going to end up losing badly in the big games when it matters because they're not able to step up when needed. If Stafford doesn't have 2 red zone turnovers and a pick 6, I don't think Bryce is willing the team to victory today in that weather.

Eh, feels more like a chicken or egg discussion to me. Have his downfield throws actually improved or is it that they only allow him to throw it downfield in very specific and few situations to where he can't be making bad throws? We don't ever let him just rip it downfield and put it into tight windows or true deep ball shots. They only let him throw it more than 10 yards downfield when they know the player will/should be running open and he's able to place it where it needs to be.

I genuinely don't think you know what it means to "throw a dot" in football terms. Here's a hint, it's not a 15 yard lofted pass where a player runs underneath it to catch it in stride and continue running. "throwing a dot" can be attributed to numerous throws, but not those. It's throwing a perfect touch pass high and outside on the sideline where a WR is the only one who can make the catch and make a toe tap to complete it. It's where a QB throws a 40-50 yard pass into a perfect spot for the WR to make the catch. Those TD's were well thrown balls, I'm not saying he didn't make a good pass. But in no world were they "dots" like you seem to want to call them. They wouldn't even be considered "dots" if they were thrown in a HS game, sorry, but just the way it is.

#1 overall pick who the players like, period. You can't have the #1 overall pick be a 3 year starter, pick up the 5th year option, and then put him into a competition for the starting spot with a newly signed FA QB for that 4th season. Don't get me wrong, I get it from the fan standpoint and just looking at Bryce objectively without draft or locker room status. But you just can't ignore those things in real life roster management. If you bring in that competition and they play better than Bryce in the pre-season, you have an ugly mess on your hands that can have repercussions for years down the line. Because then you either still start Bryce over the guy who played better, or your then benching your #1 overall pick, a 3 year starter who the players like and have voted as one of their captains. It's Daniel Jones' last year on the Giants but magnified by him being the #1 overall pick who is liked by his teammates better than Jones was.

Oh I totally get it, I kinda called this 3 years ago... Bryce is the picture perfect recipe for putting a team in QB purgatory, and just because there isn't a clear other path to follow right now, doesn't mean we should continue down this one as we also know how that movie ends too. Trying to start over now might bring more hurt than is needed over the next 2-3 years, but it also might (is?) the fastest way to actually getting back to being a true contender in the future. Which I 100% understand is a hard sell to a fanbase so starved for wins like we are, but it's why I was so against Bryce from the jump. This just seemed like the inevitable path everything would go down.