tukafan21

He absolutely needs more support, we have one of the worst WR rooms in the NFL. But that doesn't absolve him from not being a franchise QB. The longer it takes some fans to realize this, the longer their going to be unable to see the real picture of what's going on with this team.

It doesn't matter what the thread was started for. I was responding to YOUR post and what YOU said.. if you can't take people calling you out for your ridiculousness, maybe don't say crazy things.

Bryce has had 10 starts this season. He has only 5 games of over 171 yards. He has only 4 games of over 191 yards. He has only 2 games over 224 yards. He has only 1 game over 263 yards. He has 0 games over 298 yards. He has more 2 INT games than 2 Passing TD games. Having a borderline bottom 10 QB in this league isn't something we should be trying to hang our hat on, it's ridiculous. Stop trying to convince yourself he's something that he's not just because he's played better than he had until this past month, he's still a below average QB who doesn't have the physical tools to become even above average, let alone great.

I'd rather be celebrating playoff wins in a few years than December wins in a 4 win season. I'm not against rooting for us to win meaningless late season games, I did it in the early Cam years without hesitation. The difference is we had so many key players in those years, that winning was what was best for our future. Right now, I don't see it, we have a couple great players and then a bunch of JAGs across the board, if even that good. We just beat a team that is historically bad on the road, who has only beaten 2 playoff teams this year (and that's assuming the Rams still get in). It's not like we just beat some great team soundly, I don't see this win as a turnaround for the franchise.

LOL dude....... You spent the offseason after drafting Bryce saying he was a stud and was going to have us in SB contention immediately. Then he sucked and you spent all offseason and the majority of this season saying he was a bum that we needed to move on from and been screaming for Shedeur to replace him. He's played below average the last month, but because he hasn't looked like the worst starting QB in the history of the game, you are now back to him being your QB and the future of our franchise. But sure, you're not a flip flopper at all

Just as the majority of fans have been rooting for that at the end of seasons for years. How's that working out for us right now? We're not here because we haven't had a winning culture, we're here because we haven't had good enough players to build a winning culture, regardless of the coaching staff.

Eh, you're looking at it in a vacuum by draft slot, not how they got the picks. Gibbs and Laporta were because they had the 6th pick in the draft and traded back to get those additional picks to get those guys. They had the 6th pick in the draft from the Goff trade. The Rams lost in OT in Week 18 the previous season, if they win that game, the Lions fall back 2 more draft picks and probably aren't able to make that same trade to get both of them. They got Sewell because we won a meaningless game in Week 17 the season before, if that doesn't happen, we're drafting Sewell before them as LT was our biggest need at the time. All of that is also a moot point, because them going on that winning steak to close out the 2022 season didn't affect them getting any of those players. They already had most of them, and the ones they added after that season, was mainly because of the 6th pick in the draft that they held and was only that high because the Rams didn't win a late season game. And THAT is the point in all of this. As you said, it's a combination of having the players and building a winning culture. And 9 times out of 10, you can't build the winning culture and then add the players afterwards, it's the other way around, you get the players and then build the culture. The Lions had the players and then built the culture, that's how it's done in the NFL.

Good freaking lord. How many times does this have to be explained, it really is not a hard concept. NO... players and coaches will never intentionally lose games, and fans shouldn't want them to. But as FANS, we can hope we end up losing games because it is what is best for the franchise, even if the players and coaches are trying to win them. Losing is not the same as tanking, they are two entirely different things, one is acceptable, one is not.

Hey guys, remember when we won those meaningless games in 2010 and it cost us the #1 pick and the chance to draft Cam? Oh.... right I get that's more of an extreme example because it got us a HOF caliber QB. But it's the general concept, you want to win late season games when you have the pieces in place to make a run the next season, we currently are not in that place. Herbert and Sewell are the ones I point to so much, because we literally lost out on 2 franchise different makers by 1 draft slot. Give us those two players while we still have CMC, Moore, and the rest of the picks we gave up for Bryce, and we'd have been a legit playoff contender the last few years. Draft position matters in the NFL more than any other sport (other than the #1 pick in the NBA in a year with a generational talent).

You're right, good teams don't worry about where they are drafting. The problem with that... WE ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM We have a solid OL, we have a good RB in Hubbard, we have an elite DT in Brown, and we have a possibly elite CB in Horn if he can continue to stay healthy. Outside of those players, right now, who do you see on this roster that has a shot at being a Pro Bowl caliber player in the next few years? This roster is so void of high end talent that saying things like "good teams don't worry about where they are drafting" is one of the more asinine statements I've heard on here in a while.

If you think the Lions are who they are today solely because of Dan Campbell, then you just don't get it. Don't get me wrong, he's a huge part of it, but........... Amon Ra, Gibbs, Goff, Sewell, Ragnow, Hutchinson, Branch all off the top of my head are better than any player on our roster not named Derrick Brown (and some of them are better than DB anyways). And that's before you even talk about guys like Montgomery, LaPorta, Smith, Campbell, all of whom would be starting over players on our team right now as well (and there may be others too, I don't have their full roster memorized). Culture is great and all, and no, you can't win without it. But more important than culture is actually having the players you need to win, and we just don't have that right now, our roster is still a mess. If you don't think the franchise would be in a better place if we were picking 1 draft slot better in 2020 and 2021 and have gotten Herbert and Sewell in those drafts, then you're kidding yourself. We could have had an offense of Herbert, CMC, Moore, and one of the game's best LT's. But sure, that extra win in each of those seasons still give me all the good feels all these years later, who needs to have an offense with all those guys in their prime.

Again, how has winning late season games over the past 5 years or so helped change our culture and turned this franchise around? It hasn't, all it's done is hurt our draft position and caused us to possibly miss out on the players who actually would have helped turn things around. This same group of fans who are "anti tanking" because of "building culture" are the same ones who say it every year at this time. When are you going to realize that the best thing for the future is having the better draft picks to help build up your team? Better players > meaningless late season wins It's not even a matter of the specific players in this upcoming draft, it's a general principle.... If you are a franchise devoid of elite talent and won't be in a position to contend the following season, late season wins hurt more than they help. If you are a team on the rise, with a lot of quality pieces, that's when you want to win those late season games to help you build upon that the following season. We're the former, not the latter. I'm not against winning late season games, I'm against it when we're in the state our franchise is currently in. We are NOT contending next year, no matter how this offseason goes, it's just not going to happen, we still have far too many holes and not enough elite players. I point to the 2021 and 2022 Lions as the perfect example of this. Yes, the 2021 team had some late season wins, but they didn't hurt their draft positioning (key difference). Then the 2022 team, that had a lot of great young pieces, started off rough at 1-6, but then 8-2 to close out the season. They were then able to carry that over into the next season and made it to the NFC Championship. That's where you want to win those late season games, because they had the majority of the pieces in place already. That's just not us right now, this win isn't going to carry over into next season like it did with them. If you can't see the difference there, then that's a you problem, not a me problem. This win (and any others in the final few weeks) is NOT equal to the 2021 Lions late wins, as this is hurting our draft positioning and it didn't for them. Wins/Losses aren't in a vacuum, they're all relative to the rest of the league in that given season and how it affects the standings.

Having a playoff caliber team is fun. Being 3-11 and winning a meaningless game in December if a lost season is t fun, it’s pointless. What has been fun about us winning all these meaningless late season games over the last 5 years or so? We do it every year, where has it gotten us? Where is that winning culture everyone claims it leads to? Thats why I can’t understand people saying that stuff, as it clearly has lead to helping turn this franchise around when we do it EVERY SEASON. It’s not like we rarely do it. We literally have done it every season since the Cam years, we win late season games, hurt our draft position, miss out on elite players, and still suck the next year. So please, tell me why this season is any different?

Because they still ended up with the 2nd pick of the draft and then got bailed out when the Jags didn’t take the best pass rusher in the draft anyways. This win very well could end up costing us 4-6 spots in the draft depending how things close out. Those two things are not the same

I’d rather enjoy being a yearly contending team instead of enjoying meaningless late season wins in lost seasons, every single year. We do this all the time, lost season, win a couple late season games, hurt our draft position, miss out on the players we really would have wanted, and repeat. It’s how teams get stuck in NFL purgatory. Never bad enough to get the true elite prospects that can change your franchise and never good enough to contend for the playoffs. Have you really enjoyed the last 5 or so seasons? Does this one win really make you that happy to where it’s going to carry over to this point next year when we’re still not close to contending for the playoffs?