poundaway

On 4/21/2023 at 6:55 PM, poundaway said:

And Byrd is probably the fastest player on the team and Shenault was awesome last year.

@Varking  Which don't you like?  Byrd or Shenault?

2 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Every interview with that guy seems to question the validity and longevity of their whole thing. It could become a vital part of drafting or teams might dump it in a few years. Only half the league has bought in at this point and it's been around like 8 years. If Purdy didn't ball out in the QB friendly 9er's offense last year I don't think it would be getting half as much attention as it has gotten this year. Fields had supposedly the highest QB score on record at the time but his main criticism is his processing. 

I agree.  I don't put much stock in it.  Though a low score on that test in this case jives with a 40% completion rate and 10 percentile pff under pressure. 

Stroud's accuracy is top of the class.  His mobility, processing and speed isn't.

The question is, should we deluge the Huddle with as many intelligence jokes as there have been midget jokes?

8 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

“All the guys in this class scored well.” Is an interesting statement to make. Wouldn’t that imply Stroud scored well?

Meh.  Standard generalized language.  What did you expect him to say, most did good but one really really sucked? 

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

If he stays healthy is a nice combo. Chark has the speed to be the deep threat, Thielen is the possession slot WR with great hands, and Marshall is the big body large catch radius for the jump balls. 

And Byrd is probably the fastest player on the team and Shenault was awesome last year.

36 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

It's quite interesting that everyone here who wants Young just disregards his size as an issue and points to weird random data points as to why "smaller QB's aren't more likely to get injured"

Despite every NFL expert and analyst openly talking about how his size and possible durability issues

 

I'm gonna side with the "experts" on that one, very few, if any, have said that his size are a completely non-factor in the way so many on here talk about him. 

Sigh.

We don't discount it.  We just don't weigh that as end all be all determiner of durability, because its not.  The #1 indicator is previous injury history.  And the only analysis we have says the opposite of what your saying.

Its  just not enough to outweigh Young's positives, most importantly his elite processing.

Those same NFL analysts you talk about say they would take Young #1.  PFF, Draft Buzz, Sports News, ESPN,Walter Football, CBS Sports, NFL.com, and SI.com all have Bryce Young their choice for best QB. Not mock draft. Best QB on their board.

Davis said Young is the better QB and dismissed the size concerns.
Smitty said Young is the taller processor and said Young should go 1 overall.
Kuechly dismissed the size concerns.

If Stroud gets hurt (hopefully not), I will only make 10% of the threads made on Young's durability.

11 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Call me crazy, but trying to predict Young's durability by comparing him to guys who are 20+ lbs heavier than him is rather flawed and not very relevant.

Assuming he's going to get hurt because he's lighter is rather flawed.

Ask Matt Coral.

3 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, I'm not saying smaller QB's have durability issues.

I'm saying the guy who would be LITERALLY the smallest QB in NFL history will more than likely have injury issues

 

Even though smaller QB's historically have been more durable, theres a cut off somewhere and Young is below it?

9 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

@therealmjland @tukafan21Here is a really good article to help yal's debate.

 

Two good exerpts:

 

Since 2000, nine quarterbacks have appeared in an NFL game listed at 6-1, 200 pounds or smaller: Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Thaddeus Lewis, Doug Flutie, Tyler Huntley, Kellen Moore, John Wolford, Ty Detmer and Koy Detmer. They have started a total of 177 games (106 by Garcia) and appeared in five Pro Bowls (4 for Garcia, 1 for Flutie).

 

Now it gets interesting. Let's start with a few caveats:

∎ As noted, Young would be the smallest first-round quarterback in 60 years. This data may not apply to him.

∎ All NFL quarterbacks, obviously, can get hurt.

∎ This data is a relatively small sample size.

I looked at the top 40 quarterbacks in passing yards over the last 10 years and determined how many starts they missed due to injury using pro-football-reference.com. The data is noisy but the ONLY statistically significant correlation was that heavier quarterbacks were more likely to get injured than lighter quarterbacks.

Twelve quarterbacks missed 15% of their starts or more. Six were 5 pounds heavier (230 pounds) or more than the average of the players in the survey: Nick Foles, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco and Jameis Winston. Two were within 5 pounds of average: Jimmy Garoppolo and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Four were 5 pounds or more less than average: Teddy Bridgewater, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill and Lamar Jackson.

Thirteen quarterbacks missed 5% or fewer of their starts. Just three weighed at least 230 pounds ‒ Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Blake Bortles; two of them are early in their careers. Four were around average weight: Patrick Mahomes, Eli Manning, Tom Brady and Philip Rivers. And six were 219 pounds or less: Baker Mayfield, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, Derek Carr and Kirk Cousins.

So are smaller quarterbacks more likely to get hurt? The historical data says the opposite.

Its no use.  Analysis, data, examples will not persuade the biased.

Its like Rhule and his longer arm shlt.

19 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Show me the evidence of successful sub 200 QB's, I'll wait too (well actually I won't wait, because there isn't any evidence to wait for, because it hasn't happened, ever, in the entire history of the NFL).

We traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our #1 WR for this pick, why do people want to do that and then bet on someone being the first ever successful player at his size for the position?

Wilson was a 3rd rounder, not the 1st overall pick after trading a haul to get the pick when there is an equally talented prospect also sitting there.  It's called risk assessment, and Young is a far greater risk thank Stroud at #1 overall, even before factoring in what we gave up to get the pick.

Your the one saying smaller QB's have durability issues. 

Do you have anything to offer on that besides bias?

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

jesus fuging christ, how hard is reading comprehension?

I've literally said numerous times I don't give two shits about his height, it's about his frame and ability to hold up for a long career.  I'll stop saying "sub 6 foot" QB's and start saying "sub 200 lbs" instead since people can't seem to figure out that people don't actually care about his height.

Ok sub 200.  Show the evidence.  I'll wait.

8 minutes ago, backINblack28 said:

being this outrageously obsessed over this height difference, but completely ignoring the S2 stuff is just strange to me

Or play under pressure, which I think is a bigger indicator than S2.  Stroud's pff under pressure is 10 percentile.

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Show me one other 5'10" 190 lbs QB that has had a long career as a starting QB?

 

There are fewer shorter QBs because of BIAS.  Especially the old schoolers.  The same bias that refuses to show ANY evidence that smaller QB's get hurt more or have shorter careers.  Wilson in interviews has said he was told over and over he could never be an NFL QB.  Carol took a chance. 

Please show any analysis or examples that show smaller QB's get hurt more or have shorter careers, because the only analysis I've seen has shown the exact opposite.  Our experience with Cam and Corral shows the exact opposite.

Please, convince me that smaller QB's are injured more and have shorter careers.

1 minute ago, Varking said:

Sorry I thought we were talking about Bryce Young running a 4.5. 

I don't know where they got the number from.  You should contact them and let them know their site is wrong.

8 minutes ago, Varking said:

He absolutely can not run a 4.5. That’s a joke. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2380236

This article says 4.58

Still one of the fastest in this class.

Its just a data point, like a 40 time.  We all assume he did bad and that's why he didn't want to share it.  How bad?  Maybe we'll see in time.

The rumor isn't going to hurt his draft position as the teams considering him know the real score.

Young didn't participate in the combine so we're missing a bunch of data points on him.

Speaking of 40 time, someone found one for Bryce somewhere.  Here are 40 times for the QB's :

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/QB/1/2023

The coaches know the score so this garbage shouldn't effect his draft position.

I just wish Stroud would just share his score already.

18 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

when a tiny person is more likely to be more greatly affected by a single vicious hit than an average size person.

Ok.  Prove it.

Because the only analysis shared here shows the exact opposite which jives with our history of Cam and Corral.

Give examples or show an analysis.

8 minutes ago, ChuckWag78 said:

I don't know, this just feels like a hatchet job. And I don't buy you can't get better at this test, especially a very specific number like you can't improve than 5.5%.  I find it hard to believe you wouldn't do better being familiar with what's asked of you versus going in with no idea.

I bet you're right.  But they're not going to let you take it over and over in one sitting and its probably random and different enough each time that you can't gain much from just a second or 3rd try. 

4 minutes ago, OceanPanther said:

I understand some of these "tweeters" may be legit,,  But this is pretty much 3rd or even 4th hand. 

I bet you get 50% percentile for signing your name lol, 

It's sorta like the report of Farris Bueller being sick,,  
"  Uhm, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

  If his score is that much better, I hope he addresses this.

13 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

How is he capped out? Haha. He is the best learner in this draft… he has a head start on every player to be successful in the NFL. What would take stroud, AR, and others multiple seasons to learn… young shows promise to have it understood in a single offseason.

 

how have we not learned from Brady, burrow, and manning that the QB position isn’t about athletic ability….

I know right.  And some act like those elite processing traits can be just coached into them.  If so we don't know what Young's processing ceiling is.

All we do know, is its an VERY important trait, that shows up on tape.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article274533111.html#storylink=cpy

“I think that Bryce Young is a better quarterback,” Thomas said at his Ten58 Sports Bar & Lounge on Thursday. “And the reason why I say that — as you guys can see — Ten58 is based on my time at (the University of) Georgia. So, I’m partial to SEC guys. I got to watch Bryce Young play a lot, and he’s a guy that played against NFL competition almost every week. When you think about the number of guys that are drafted out of the SEC, and that go on to have really good, successful careers — I think Bryce Young, he’s going to be more suited, ready and molded to be prepared to play on Day 1.”

Davis — who spent 14 of his 16 NFL seasons in Carolina — doesn’t think Young’s undersized stature (5-foot-10 and 204 pounds) is a problem. Davis played against former New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees for the majority of his career. Brees turned out to be an All-Pro talent at 6-foot and 209 pounds.

“People keep talking about this size thing,” Davis said. “One thing that has been completely dispelled — Drew Brees is a Hall of Fame (caliber) quarterback. I watched him from the other side of the field get it done time in and time out. So, there’s no issues when it comes to being short. You think about being more frail — I think in the NFL, you can’t even land hard on quarterbacks anymore anyway or it’s a penalty. So, that’s not going to be a big issue. . . . Expect Bryce Young to be, possibly, the No. 1 pick.”

Along with the Panthers’ need at quarterback, Davis has some other ideas for Carolina’s draft plans. “I think with the loss of DJ Moore, you’ve got to do something at the wide receiver spot,” Davis said. “You’ve got to do something opposite (pass rusher) Brian Burns, when it comes to getting after the quarterback. So, those are areas of need, that first and foremost, we have to address. I feel like we made a huge step last year with the offensive line — having that continuity — drafting Icky (Ekwonu). He turned out to be a really, really good draft pick, and he’s only going to continue to get better. So, I think, without a doubt, you add another wide receiver, you add some (pass) rush help, and we’re on our way.”

 “For me, it’s all about getting the fan base excited,” Davis said. “People are going to be excited about the Knights game, they’re going to be excited about what the Panthers are getting ready to do with this draft, and to be the start of that — it’s an amazing opportunity for me, and I’m really looking forward to that. I want to make sure I’m doing it in the right way.”