poundaway

3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

I don't think you get it

No, they don't line up 40 yards off the ball, but if you have a speedster at WR and a QB with a monster arm, it causes safeties to back up once the ball is snapped and run with that WR running the go-route.

It's not even about completing the passes that deep, it's about having the ability to do so and thus forcing the defense to respect and defend that possibility.  It opens up underneath routes, particularly in the middle of the field, as it removes the safety from that area of the field by default.

It's like why teams with Lebron on it need to build a team filled with shooters around him.  It's to keep the defense needed to stay close to them, and thus open up space in the lane for Lebron to do his work.  To further the basketball analogy, it's like when a terrible shooter gets the ball outside the 3 point line and the defense completely sags off them because they're unafraid of them shooting the 3.  

Same concept, not hard to understand, it's about the threat of something and the defense needing to account for it.

No.  You don't get it.

Its only a threat if you complete them that far.  Long and wrong is not a threat.  Only 2 of the 8 that Mahomes threw longer than 40 yards were even catchable.

Yes >40 yards opens up underneath routes, but it does NOT have to be 60.  Last year, in an entire season Mahomes did not once complete a pass more than 60 yards, but you say that you must be able to complete those.  50 yards opens up the underneath routes just as well as 60.  Young has COMPLETED 50+ yard throws.   

He doesn't have the biggest gun, but as Reich said, he can make the throws a QB needs in the NFL.   Apparently, Texans, Vikings and Reich agree on that.  I'm sorry you don't.

Just now, tukafan21 said:

the discussion was about arm strength, you posted a video about arm strength, so why bring up pressure/crowded pockets?

odd

"armed QB's can throw it that far from a crowded pocket "

You brought up crowded pockets genius.

Geno Smith was considered last year's most accurate deep passer, believe it or not, according to the deep ball project. 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/79668571?pr=true

He was 1 for 5 beyond 40.  The ball went 49 yards in the air.  The other 4 weren't catchable.

28 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Not sure this video makes the argument that you think it does

First pass was about 55 air yards, actually probably a few yards less, second pass only went 50, the third one was about 60, maybe a yard or two less.

If that's the video that shows off his max arm strength, then it's easily bottom half of the NFL among starting QB's and likely in the bottom 10 in the end.

Again, it's adequate and serviceable, but the top strong armed QB's can throw it that far from a crowded pocket with the flick of the wrist, he needed perfectly clean pocket and be able to step into those throws as clean as can be to get it there.

And again, as I pointed out in my last post, it's less even about being able to make that throw as much as just having the threat of it in your back pocket to keep a safety deeper. 

There are a lot of positives about Bryce that people can talk up, but arm strength just isn't one of them, it's probably his biggest actual weakness if you don't count injury concern as that's not quite as tangible of a thing like arm strength is.

Safety's don't play 40 yards off the ball.  ~50 yards is plenty deep.

Mahomes completed 1 ball longer than 40 yards last year, a 57 yarder.  Not even 60.   Same length as the examples I posted. Does Mahomes need to work on his arm strength?  He was 1 for 8 beyond FORTY and only 2 were catchable. 

12 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Again, it's adequate and serviceable, but the top strong armed QB's can throw it that far from a crowded pocket with the flick of the wrist

Why compare Bryce to QBs that we could not possibly get?
We called the Bills, they wouldn't take DJ for Allen. /sarc

We've been over and over this.  When it comes to pressure/crowded pockets, Bryce is the best in this class. 

I don't understand this one.

2 division games the first two weeks? 

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Tampa has a above average roster just needs a competent qb

NO has a above average roster just needs a competent qb

ATL is loaded on offense, spent a lot of defense but needs a competent qb

Panthers have some good pieces, lacks depth but needs a competent qb

 

Its insanely early to be dropping the mic on this division on May 10th

Its insanely early to say the Panthers need a competent QB.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/10/ranking-nfc-south-rosters-bryce-young-panthers-bucs-saints-falcons#gid=ci02bed70780002776&pid=1-carolina-panthers

Guess who SI thinks has the best roster in the NFCS?

55 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

First off, I'm definitely not opposed to the Panthers adding an EDGE player- I hope they do.

However, at this point, I doubt it happens until closer to the season and maybe even after the season starts.  You know what you have with these veteran guys.

I think the team is going to give a lot of snaps to the younger guys in camp to determine where the gaps still are before signing someone.

I think there are probably people within the organization that believe Haynes and/or YGM can be a starter and they want to vet that out first.

If these FA's were flawless, they would already be signed.

Yannick Ngakoue- Proven pass rusher capable of getting double digit sacks, generally been liability against the run.  History with Reich.

Jadaveon Clowney- Probably the best against the run, inconsistent as a pass rusher and locker room concerns.

Leonard Floyd- To me, probably the best of both worlds (rush + playing the run) we could sign.  Potential issue is that he is going to want $10M+ per season (all of them would).  Is Floyd better than Haynes with more snaps?  Extrapolating the discrepancy in snap counts, Haynes had comparable stats at $1.4M.

So, in summation, I do hope we sign someone (I'm leaning Floyd), but I do think the team is considering the above points and that's why we haven't signed anyone yet.

Two years ago, our D was 2nd in yards.  Last year we were 22nd.  Part of that was the loss of Reddick, part of it was field position, part  was the change from Snow to Holcomb.  Our stats really should have been worse,  the Bengals essentially sat their starters the 2nd half.  Wilks fired Cooper, corner-backs coach, who Wilks placed in that position when he was promoted,  and defensive line coach Paul Pasqualoni after the Bengals game.  Holcomb's D was pretty bad in Arizona and he is now a defensive assistant in Buffalo.

We haven't spent a ton in FA on D and waited until the 3rd and 5th round for defense.  We've added a successful DC, and are switching base configuration.

Our D is as much a question mark as the O for next year.  A lot of moving parts need to come together.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly think a lot of this talk is just people echoing what they've heard other people say or write.

Folks are gonna say "yeah, but that's college!" and I'll remind those folks that those games took place on the planet Earth so the physics of ball flight didn't change.

I agree.    I'm not sure why he was traded or why we didn't use him more.  We saw some impressive play from him and he clearly has had success downfield.  He was our highest pff rated player on O last year. 

We are missing something.

43 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

the Thielen "trade" ... as he says multiple times, haha.

 

The piece that got me was his money talk about miles vs foreman and wishes that we offered foreman... I believe he missed the news that we had an offer out for foreman per Fitt. However, Foreman was weighing his options. Plus the Miles contract is nothing in today's salary cap world and we can get the entire cap savings back in 2025 with a release or trade.

We probably offered Foreman a comparable contract. He wanted to be a #1, which he would get in Chicago.  I hope we're not done in the RB department, but as time rolls by, it is looking that way.

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Here is what I do not understand--when the season is over, after the 16th game of the season vs. Tampa Bay, why not empty your PS and bench for the final game of the season?  Use it like a 2023 extra preseason game for evaluating talent and giving players an opportunity to gain experience.

Instead, we won a meaningless game (that did not cost us draft position) for Steve Wilks' resume.  Our starting RG tore his ACL.  Our starting LG broke his foot. That impacted free agency, the draft, etc.  Why not allow Deonte Brown an opportunity to play?  Any player who was banged up for week 18 should have been placed on IR and a PS player should have been activated.  WR Saunders, OG Brown, and maybe a LB are a few players I wanted to see.

I would have benched Corbett and maybe Moton.  I would have have played Christensen at T and brought Brown up from the PS to get some reps at RG.  I would have played Mays at LG.

Instead, we hoist the 7-10 trophy and sent our Guards to offseason surgery and rehab.

I agree, I would have been fine benching starters for the last game.  Saints were clearly desperately trying to lose that game. 

We did tank.  At the point we traded away CMC and chose a replacement HC  who had successfully tanked before,  the FO was trying to tank.  Wilkes as much said so, even though he qualified that statement later. 

If we had chosen Tabor who wasn't suing the NFL for being undermined, I think we could have traded away more assets for more picks,  which would have given us more 1st round picks and and a higher draft spot, so we could have spent fewer picks to move up.   

The coaches and players cannot/will not lose games on purpose.

We are where we are.  If Young translates, no one will care.

Meh.  All the  QB's need snaps with both 1st and 2nd string OL, Wr's and RBs because those 2nd stringers play.  OL, WR and RB injuries are quite common.  To just dictate that this QB is one and only takes snaps with the other designated 1s is poor planning.  Is there an NFL team that designates all the 1s right after the draft and then only those players practice together?    The huddle over-dissects this stuff.

4 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

Where is the DBO sign??

Nebraska.