Icege

It'd be awesome if Amare Barno or Brandon Smith develop. My fear is that Rhule went with the same approach he did with his college teams: acquire a bunch of athletes and be overconfident in his staff's ability to teach them how to play football. Maybe with a top-flight professional coaching staff those guys can flip the switch. Kobe Jones has been popping in training camp from the DE position. He might sneak his way on to the roster. Brown, Tuttle, Williams, Anderson, McCall, and Jones could be a decent enough group to hold down the DLine this season. I think that Marquis Haynes Sr is going to perform respectably this season. Is he going to show out as "the guy" to line up across from Burns? I wouldn't go that far. He could do well enough though so that if we could get somebody out of Barno, Johnson, and Gross-Matos to show up then the pass rush might be "good enough" as gross as it might feel to settle for that.

Which says a lot because offenses are supposed to be ahead of defenses in training camp since they're trying out new stuff while the defense is mostly reading and reacting.

What I'm thinking as well. Having Chinn + Luvu on the field is going to allow the defense so much more flexibility. Luvu can be playing off-ball or rushing the passer. Chinn can line up at safety, nickel, or LB. Those two I think are going to be vital to Evero's scheme.

From Monday's practice, but so nice it's worth seeing twice:

Yea... I'm geeking over this team having and executing a modern NFL offense.

Excited to think about how the Panthers are going to fill out their defensive depth chart. Here's one from Evero's 2022 Broncos defense at the beginning of September: Looking at the DL, I'm thinking we see that filled out by Derrick Brown, Shy Tuttle, DeShawn Williams, Henry Anderson, Marquan McCall, and then choose somebody from Raequan Williams, Taylor Stallworth, John Penisini, Jalen Redmond, Kobe Jones, LaBryan Ray, and Antwuan Jackson. I could see them looking to poach a player from another team's cuts or practice squad here. The DBs will be interesting too... Jaycee Horn, Donte Jackson, and CJ Henderson seem to be locks at corner. The question is, which two (or three) do they go with out of Eric Rowe, Greg Mabin, Rezjohn Wright, Keith Taylor Jr, and Stantley Thomas-Oliver III? Safeties are DEEP with Jeremy Chinn, Von Bell, Xavier Woods, Sam Franklin Jr, and Jamie Robinson. ILB looks to be one of the surprisingly deeper groups with Shaq Thompson, Frankie Luvu, Kamu Grungier-Hill, Deion Jones, and Brandon Smith. OLB on the other hand... outside of Burns and Haynes, a lot of question marks. DJ Johnson is going to take some time to develop, YGM is in a make it or break it year for him as far as it goes with remaining a Panther in the long term, and there hasn't been much of anything reported about Barno. Of the guys listed, I think that we're going to see Shaq, Luvu, Chinn, and Horn ball out. I'm a little worried about the defensive line as well as the team's overall pass rush, but there's no way to know how any of that be until the games get underway. While Evero prefers to rush just four, when he does blitz he likes to bring an ILB (or two). My assumption is that the disguised coverages and blitzes are going to hopefully buy the pass rush time to get there. I'm a little curious how this defense will fair against the run-heavy NFC South with it's frequent use of light boxes. That could all been a part of being in the AFC West though against Mahomes, Herbert, and Carr twice a year (ooo, didn't think about Evero's experience against Carr...). Brown, Shaq, Luvu, and Chinn are all solid against the run and experienced against the offenses that they'll see. Eager to see who steps up amongst the remaining starters (aside from the CBs, of course).

Np! Sharing resources helps us all learn correction from earlier re: primary pass rusher, EJ was saying that Burns was not going to pop on the stat sheet due to being the primary pass rushers and the team often rushing four with the #1 guy drawing the doubles (which was supported by TheHonestNFL's metrics that were linked). Jaycee is expected to have a Surtain-like season. Lots of 2-high, light box looks pre-snap it sounds.

It was on one of the two recently linked podcasts we had in here re: deep dive analysis. I believe it was Brett Kollman + EJ Snyder's Panthers breakdown and/or their NFC South predictions ones. EJ mentioned that Evero's defense uses their primary pass rusher to eat up double teams, so while Brett was excited for him to be at his natural position EJ didn't believe his stats were going to be impressive. Brett talked up how Evero's defense likes to leave the CB1 on an island which will allow more targets to come Jaycee's way. @TheHonestNFL on Twitter has been very high on Evero as well and has had some more detailed stuff to check out. He has a lot on Frank's offensive system due to Frank's time in Philly and the account owner allegedly being a former Philly front office member, as well as stuff from Fangio's time in Philly. The common theme I'm seeing in regards to the scheme is that we're going to be seeing a lot of disguised coverages/blitzes being held for as long as possible. A lot of 2-man looks where the safeties will eventually rotate. They've got a BUNCH of stuff on Fangio's concepts as well as Frank's stuff as mentioned. That last tweet was a treasure trove of info. Can't speak highly enough for what that account brings to the table.

From the way it sounds, Evero's defense funnels passing plays towards CB1. That would mean that CJ is rarely going to be on an island by himself (unless he happens to be CB1 on the play, of course). With a player who's confidence has been shaky at times, that could go a long ways towards making him a meaningful contributor to the defense.

Looking at when the catch was made vs. when Woods pulled up + the angle he was coming from, doesn't look like the hit would be nearly as bad as you think. Plus, I've see Chark hold on to the ball while taking shots or having a defender hanging all over him. Would the safer play have been to hit the RB or TE underneath? Sure, but then we're hearing about how Bryce is scared to take shots downfield or doesn't have the arm to push it. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It is what it is.

Hmm... interesting. I was curious as to whether or not PFF's grades were influenced by usage and that might be the case. Prentice only had 3 targets last year of which he caught all 3 for 9yds and a 1st down. Out of curiosity, do they have JK Dobbins ranked? He had 7 catches on 8 targets with no drops for 42yds, 1 TD, and 3 1sts. Wondering how low they'd consider him if usage is as heavy of an influence as it might seem. From what it sounded like at training camp today, they were lining Laviska up all over the place as well as letting him take handoffs in the backfield. I'm a big fan of the former part of that, because if the team makes it a point to move him all over the field it can allow them to use him as a gadget player early on before letting him be the decoy later once defenses start keying in on him. That's going to make life even easier for Bryce.

For disagreeing that Miles Sanders is a good enough pass catcher as an RB? Nah. I stand by that. But I will let him know that they're doing what a lot of us are hoping to see that he just mentioned earlier: utilizing Laviska out of the backfield more often this season than last.

@CRALooks like they might have a plan for Hasta Laviska similar to what you mentioned you were hoping for in the other thread

Doesn't have a forced fumble, but he does have two picks and plenty of pass deflections! I understand that folks want him to have sacks, but we can't ignore the other net positive plays that he creates for the defense that have impacted the opposing QB. I'm interested to see if he's going to have more opportunities to get to the QB. Allegedly, Evero's system rushes four while using the primary pass rusher (in our case, Burns) to eat up double teams. Hopefully pairing that with how the scheme is also known to disguise coverages pre-snap will give DBrown more opportunities to get to the QB.

Out of curiosity... who was #149? If it wasn't Chuba Hubbard, then throw that baby out with the bath water (imo). But in all seriousness, that's incredibly hard to believe just looking at the numbers for other RBs. AJ Dillon: 43 targets, 28 catches, 7 drops (16.3% drop rate) Nick Chubb: 37 targets, 27 catches, 4 drops (10.8% drop rate) Breece Hall: 31 targets, 19 catches, 5 drops (16.1%) James Conner: 58 targets, 46 catches, 7 drops (12.1% drop rate) It's hard for me to look at those stats along with Sanders' 26 targets, 20 catches, and 2 drops (7.7% drop rate) and not take that PFF grade ranking with a grain of salt. Hard to get Bryce more when we had to stock the team beforehand. Free agency first, then the draft. Unless we want to rehash the old argument about whether or not they knew it was Bryce all along, but I don't think we've gotten that bored again.

Agreed on Chuba having stonehands. However, he could also develop into a quality starting RB like Miles Sanders has. Regarding Sanders as a pass catcher, he definitely had issues in his sophomore season. His 53.2% catch percentage from that season is heavily influenced by how much Wentz sucked when targeting him, arguably more so than his 7 drops (which were way too many, don't get me wrong there). 52 targets, 28 of them catches, 7 of them drops... that's 17 passes that completely missed him. It's worth noting that since that season, he's only dropped 3 total passes (1 in 2021, 2 last season). I'd also like to point out, in support of how bad Chuba's hands are, that he dropped 7 passes on just 37 targets during his rookie season. He dropped 1 of his 17 targets last year though. Also have to take into consideration the QB + style of play. Jalen Hurts rarely targets his RBs, which is backed up by Sanders' targets prior to Hurts starting. Just look at his targets from 2021 + 2022: 2021 Targets 104 - DeVonta Smith, WR 76 - Dallas Goedert, TE 62 - Quez Watkins, WR 57 - Jalen Reagor, WR 50 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB 34 - Miles Sanders, RB 2022 Targets 145 - AJ Brown, WR 136 - DeVonta Smith, WR 69 - Dallas Goedert, TE 51 - Quez Watkins, WR 29 - Kenneth Gainwell, RB 26 - Miles Sanders, RB Gainwell was also the change of pace back for the Eagles. Yea, in the postseason they started going with him primarily but that could also be due to them thinking they put some wear and tear on Miles. Kenneth Gainwell 2021: 298 snaps (29%), 68 rushing attempts, 50 targets 2022: 331 snaps (28%), 53 rushing attempts, 29 targets Miles Sanders 2021: 426 snaps (53%), 137 rushing attempts, 34 targets 2022: 673 snaps (57%), 259 rushing attempts, 26 targets I don't agree that Miles Sanders is not an effective pass catcher out of the backfield. Is he as elite as CMC? No, but in terms of being a 3-down back he fits that role and I think will do just fine for Bryce Young as his safety valve out of the backfield.

Stoked for the kid to ball out in this defense!

Summary NFC South didn't have the lowest "Power Score" in the league. That belonged to the NFC North. At the time of the recording, the Panthers had the #27 Power Score. The Rams, Cardinals, and Bears all ranked lower than the Panthers along with two teams yet to be reviewed (my money is on the Texans and the Colts). Most impactful free agents: Miles Sanders (Brett) & Derek Carr (EJ) Brett: Run-heavy division with expectations that the team will remain run-heavy under Reich that will run a lot of the concepts that Sanders exceled at in Philly (inside zone, power, and duo). Believes that Sanders has developed into a solid RB and is under an affordable deal. Would not be stunned if he has a 1300-1400 total yard season with double digit touchdowns. EJ: Miles has to be happy with the deal he got after watching how things fell apart for other RBs on the market. Coming from one of the best OLs in Philly limited his landing spots and he chose an ascending young OL to run behind. Brett had high praises for the OL, citing how they went from CMC to Foreman and didn't miss a beat. Dark Horse Candidate: DJ Chark (EJ). Both had Jessie Bates as their runner-up. Notable rookies for Carolina: Bryce Young, Jonathan Mingo, and Chandler Zavala Favourite Rookie Addition: Bryce Young (Brett) & Bijan Robinson (EJ) Brett is very high on Bryce Young. Said if he were a little better that folks would be talking him up like they did Joe Burrow. Great in big moments, eyes in the back of his head, elite pocket presence, touch, accuracy, more than enough arm strength. He's also a Mater Dei alum like Bryce is and says that he's one of the best QBs that he's ever seen play live with his own eyes. Was also very high on Chandler Zavala as was EJ. EJ feels good for the Carolina fans. No sure thing in the draft, but Bryce has a better combo of skills & attributes the matter for the QB position then those that have come before him. Can amplify the team and has shown that as far back as high school. Only complaint from other people is that he's not big and might get hurt, which EJ will agree on the size but not him being frail. Survived the SEC guys that got drafted and are going to be chasing him around at the next level and still played at a high level with things that can't be taught: anticipation, speed in pre-snap + post-snap reads, good enough mobility to stay out of the way and open up throwing lanes, wait until the last micro-second to get rid of the ball when a route opens up, etc. In terms of pure starting experience, more than most QBs in a more competitive conference at a higher level of execution. Really likes Young, but couldn't pick him because he joked that he's contractually obligated to defer all Mater Dei alum to Brett. Division MVP: Brian Burns (Brett) & Chris Olave (EJ) Brett thinks there are few divisions that a non-QB can be MVP but expects a master class season: possibility of 16+ sacks, bunch of forced fumbles, outrageous pressure numbers. EJ agrees that Burns is awesome and picked him as DPOTY last year, but says that Fangio's system that Evero runs does not like to give their four primary rushers help. They also like to use their primary rusher, in Carolina's case Brian Burns, to eat up double teams. He does not agree with using the best pass rusher on the team as a decoy 70% of the time. Believes that the scheme will suppress him. Offensive POTY: Chris Olave (Brett) & Derek Carr (EJ) Defensive POTY: Jaycee Horn (Brett) & Grady Jarrett (EJ) Brett says that when he's been healthy that Jaycee Horn has shown that he's a great corner. In terms of durability/consistency, Patrick Surtain has won the debate so far but believes that Horn is due for a ridiculous year even though he has Burns as the MVP. Believes that he's the perfect fit for the defense the same way that Surtain was for Evero in Denver and will be used in the same way. EJ says that the defense funnels opportunities to the primary CB. Believes that Horn will benefit from it the same way Burns' stats won't. Brett followed up with saying that the defensve leaves the #1 CB on an island often while playing three over two along with two on one on the backside. That leaves him 1v1, meaning there will be targets which is going to give chances to PBUs + INTs. Offensive ROTY: Bryce Young (both) Defensive ROTY: Calijah Kancey (both) Coach of the Year: Frank Reich (Brett) & Dennis Allen (EJ) Brett loved Steve Wilks and thought he did great last year and would've chosen him, but goes with Reich as he believes the Panthers are an ascending team. EJ agrees that they're ascending and can win double digit games even with a rookie QB. Not a typical team that takes a QB #1 overall. The Panthers have a deeper roster than that. Other side of the ball is not bereft of talent. Division Winner: Carolina Panthers (both) If both had to put money, they'd put it on Carolina. From overall roster quality + depth, coaching, a young QB that they believe in, a tough but not an insurmountable schedule. Best shot to win a playoff game in January. Bryce Young is a rare rookie QB that can overcome mistakes that he will make. The team around him is good enough with talent on defense and a DC that can put more talent in better positions to succeed. Questions of course about how long it takes for things to gel, but Evero has the pieces on defense. Are there any NFC East teams that the Panthers could beat in the postseason? Maybe the Giants if DJ has a bad-to-average day. Can this team take out a team from the toughest division last year? Of course... if the NFC East QB falters early.

Definitely hesitant to sign a guy that was cut by a coach known to be loyal to his vets. Injuries? Incoming disciplinary action? What is it? Looking at the roster, it looks like they're rolling with Nick Gates ($3.2M), Braeden Daniels (2023 4th), Chris Paul (2022 7th), and Saahdiq Charles (2020 4th) with Trenton Scott ($1.5M) competing for a roster spot. By cutting Norwell, the Commanders will save nearly $5M which essentially halves the cost of the offensive guards for the team. At least, that's what this article announcing that he will be released from May 30th suggests. I doubt he goes anywhere to be a camp body, otherwise I'd say give it a shot. But with Christensen, Corbett, Zavala, and Mays he'd be here until Corbett is back. I don't think that works out in the end for the team nor Norwell. Not sure who the teams currently are that are thin on the interior. They'll likely already have been talking to his agent.

Highest paid total contract but only getting $2.5M this season which would make him the 26th highest paid RB. Next year jumps to $7.65M which will make him the 7th highest paid. It goes up to a little over $8M the year after, but at that point the contract allows the team to cut him and save over $5M with ~$2.9M dead cap. The Giants, Raiders, and Cowboys are all paying for a RB to be on the franchise tag for one season what the Panthers are paying to keep Sanders for two. The Bengals are paying Joe Mixon $8M this season and have a similar out to Sanders third year but in year 2. Given the comparisons across the league, i'm happy with the way Suleiman structured the deal.

This along with the current top 10 cap hits for QBs... Give that $13M being saved on Matt Stafford to Brian Burns plskthx

That sucks to hear, I had a completely different experience. I've found a lot of his videos to be informative and more in-depth than a lot of the stuff on YT. His background working for NFL Network likely helped a lot there, enough to at least land him a job back in the league while still producing content.