Icege

It's beautiful. Hoping that whoever the team ends up starting at RT + C in the 2026 season are monsters on rookie deals.

I cannot wait to use this as a react for the next 6 months

This is incredibly dishonest, and you know it. We didn't cherry-pick a "small amount of deep throws late in the year." We reviewed every one of Bryce's deep throws using the NFL's own film and data via NFL Pro. The analysis was thorough, transparent, and contextualized with game film. Dismissing that as cherry-picking is not only incredibly disingenuous, it is textbook gaslighting as well. Let's walk through the actual data: Top-10 in deep ball accuracy Top-5 in short-range accuracy Bottom-10 in intermediate accuracy (not ideal, but not "league worst" either) If you're going to lean on the "no pressure" qualifier again, his deep passing under pressure was covered. So no... it wasn't cherry-picked. Look, you don't have to believe in Bryce. That's your right... but misrepresenting clear, consistent evidence crosses the line from skepticism into willful intellectual dishonesty.

Oh damn, my bad. Could've sworn it was a 3yr deal last offseason. Looking at the details now and it might effectively be just 1yr looking at the numbers for 2026. Team saves $6M and just accrues a little over $2M dead cap. Costs less than $4M going into this season. Got a feeling that we are gonna see a lot of Sanders/Evans when they put 2 TEs out there to see if they can move on from Tremble.

Glad to see them playing it cautious. I wonder if this was due to the hit he took against the Bears that knocked him out. He was out for two games in the concussion protocol, came back for the Broncos but was listed questionable due to back, then missed two more games before returning to finish the season. He was also extended before last season started, so well before the injury ever occurred let alone when surgery needed to be discussed.

DM sent

I think, like with BTT%, you might be interpreting this a bit narrowly. Bryce is in Tier 4: Young players with a wide range of potential outcomes, and within that group the only QB "above" him is Bo Nix. That tier explicitly frames Bryce as a developing player still on a trajectory... not someone who's reached a plateau. It aligns with how many Panthers fans framed the season leading into 2024: that it would be a redo of Bryce's rookie season after the 2023 dysfunction. By contrast, Tier 3b, where guys like CJ and Baker are slotted, is labeled Solid starters, but they need more help and spans rankings #12 - #18. For context, Tier 3a includes Goff, Geno, and Purdy. Personally, I'm not sure I'd take those three over CJ... would you? Which brings me back around to this recurring conversation around the expectation that Bryce must be a top-10 QB to justify his draft status. I'm not pushing back on that idea at all. Year 3 is a big year... we can all agree on that. What I'm asking is: how are we defining top-10? Are we talking PFF grades? EPA/play? BTT%? 3rd down conversion rate? Redzone efficiency? You've mentioned total passing yards and win-loss record a few times... Are those your primary criteria? I'm genuinely asking, because it's tough to have a grounded conversation when advanced metrics are dismissed as irrelevant while volume stats (which are often more dependent on supporting cast and play calling) are treated as as definitive. If the bar is top-10 QB, then let's define that in consistent, measurable terms... preferably something a little more substantial than just height and weight.

Couple of things to consider with the recent love from PFF: Eric Eager, the current Panthers' VP of Football Analytics, is a former writer and data scientist for PFF. The team has had seven consecutive losing seasons, so the fanbase is eager for any uplifting news. It's the offseason, so football writers are going to be diving into the numbers from last season to create speculative pieces to drive engagement during the offseason. Being hesitant to trust stats like BTT% but not TWP% might be less an issue with PFF and more of an issue with something else.

I can't get behind a purely subjective re-draft as a method of defining "top-10 QB" status. That invites bias based on vibes/hypotheticals and can ignore actual on-field performance. You and others have said that Bryce has to be a top-10 QB to justify the pick. That's a high bar, which I'm not against, but we need a clear, consistent way to measure it. When I bring up metrics that Bryce has registered in the top-10 in like BTT%, P2S ratio, catchable deep ball rate, etc... they're waved off as either irrelevant or the expected baseline performance. Meanwhile, volume stats like passing yards or win-loss records, both of which depend heavily on roster talent, health, and coaching, are treated as definitive. That's where the inconsistency kicks in. If no performance metric ever counts in his favor and the answer is always going to be "he should be doing that," then we're not evaluating him... we're just holding him to a curve he can't win against. If this is really about performance standards, then let's define them. But if it's just about confirming prior takes based on height and weight, then let's call it what is it and stop pretending that this is a football analysis discussion.

Just to be clear: I'm not "downplaying" the talent around Bryce... I'm qualifying it. There's a big difference between saying, "we finally have building blocks that we're actually developing" and "we've done enough to say this is a finished product, NO EXCUSES!" It's possible to believe that the 2023 situation was bad and to believe that the current state, while improved, is still incomplete. That's not inconsistency; that's nuance. As for the footwork stuff, again, I've seen the same clips as others. The claim that Bryce is hopping to see over the line just isn't one I've seen corroborated by analysts or tape breakdown. "Both feet off of the ground to throw" happens a ton for QBs (ex: Mahomes, Rodgers, Purdy, etc.), especially when improvising. You're right that there were some encouraging flashes from Bryce last season, and it's nice to finally hear that after so much time was spent pretending otherwise. I'm not arguing that Bryce is elite, I'm just asking that we evaluate him using consistent, measurable criteria to determine his status as a top-10 QB... whether it's via 3rd down %, red zone efficiency, turnover-worthy plays, or yes, big-time throws (which, by the way, has been a valid part of QB evaluation across the league for years even if it wasn't used here during Kyle Allen or Teddy Bridgewater's years. For reference: Allen had 20 BTT at a 3.9% rate. Teddy had 17 BTT at 3.3%). Like you, I'm hoping to see a competent, entertaining offense this season. That's a baseline we can all root for, even if we don't have the same baseline for what makes a QB top-10 (which, to be fair, is what this conversation has been about... though I respect the attempt to reframe it).

Summary The 2024 Carolina defense posted a 44.9 grade last year, which was the worst in the NFL since 2020. They also had the worst receiving grade in the NFL despite a QB that emerged in the second half of last year. TMac is most likely WR1 in this class and is now WR1 in Carolina He's going to be incredibly helpful on go balls, dig routes, and in the redzone. Highlights show just that: First highlight is Arizona vs. Utah. 4 verts vs. cover-0, TMac lined up alone on a go ball vs. press = we're launching it Second highlight shows his potential as the X. Runs a backside in-cut and the Tampa-2 MLB sells out on the corner route, leaving his back to TMac. Tough over the middle, explosive after the play. Sees TMac doing a lot of what Mike Evans was asked to do in Tampa. Third highlight shows how effective TMac is in the redzone and it's his one-handed catch vs. Travis Hunter. Brings "indefensible plays." Has size advantage that can beat guys, can jump, and has ridiculous hands. Will help Bryce in year 3 as it will allow him to continue playing "fearless" like he did after coming back from benching. Highlights show where TMac fits and re-emphasizes how he's going to make things easier on go balls, dig routes, and in the redzone: Fourth highlight shows Bryce vs. ATL when he hit AT vs. AJ Terrell down the sideline. Bryce has to hold the single deep safety during his drop to give Thielen a chance (who is only 4yds off of the LOS when Bryce is throwing it). Registers the big-time throw attacking vertically. Fifth highlight is vs. KC on a blitz where Bolton is coming downhill while Karlaftis is dropping back over the middle. Has an in-route that has outside leverage with Chris Jones applying immediate pressure. Layered it over Karlaftis' head for the completion. Sixth highlight is the fade route TD to David Moore vs. Zona. in the redzone. David Moore was the X on this play. Thought this was interesting, especially considering recent conversations about Bryce's intermediate game needing to be better:

I appreciate the measured tone, truly. Hopefully we're at a point where we can dive a little deeper into the discussion. The observation about his footwork is fair in theory, but I'd also counter with 6'1" Brock Purdy recently admitting that he can't see his target on 40% of his throws due to the linemen in front of him. He just inked a massive deal, and while a lot of fans are understandably wondering what he's going to do with reduced weapons, "not seeing over the line" just doesn't seem to be that big of a disqualifier with his understanding of timing, leverage, and pre-snap reads (Aaron Rodgers is 6'2"... bet he's dealt with the same). Bryce is likely dealing with similar challenges due to his size, but it clearly doesn't mean it can't be managed at a high level. Also, I'm not convinced that "prototypical footwork" should be the end goal for a QB that isn't built like the prototype. What matters more is timing and rhythm with his receivers... which, as we've both noted, has been evolving as the WR room flips from vet stopgaps to rookies. He will need to improve there. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is the impact that footwork is having on his ability to process and execute. The earlier suggestion that he's “hopping around” to see the field implies a frantic or panicked visual search, which just isn’t something we’ve seen reflected in either the film or any reliable breakdown. If it were as exaggerated as described, it would’ve become a meme-worthy moment (or at least been on SportsCenter's Not Top 10). Instead, we've seen a QB who, like many young passers, occasionally loses platform stability under pressure. That is something that's common and correctable, and again, not something that shows up with enough frequency to suggest it's an endemic flaw. It’s worth continuing to track, but to argue it's a defining issue requires stronger proof than anecdote. As for the "investments" made in the offense after drafting Bryce, I think that might be stretched a bit. Yes, we've used back-to-back firsts on WRs and signed guards to big contracts. But beyond that? Mingo (2nd) and Diontae (FA) are gone. Zavala (4th) was the worst-rated OL in the league his rookie year Sanders (4th) and Evans (5th) are mid-round TEs. Tremble was given a small contract extension but is said here to be at best a blocking TE2. Jimmy Horn Jr (6th) and Coker (UDFA) are the other WR investments Corbett + BC got one-year deals coming off of injury Cade Mays was tendered, but he was cut to start last season That's not some overwhelming infusion of elite talent. It's better, sure... but acting like it's some embarrassment of riches feels overstated. Expecting instant chemistry and impact from rookies and second-year guys while simultaneously mocking the idea of contending this year also feels a little... off? So far, what I've heard as your criteria boils down to red zone efficiency and intermediate passing to the sidelines? You mentioned moving the ball inside the 20s... I'd recommend 3rd down conversion rate, big-time throws, and turnover-worthy plays. For red zone play specifically, we could look at turnovers inside the 20. Incompletions in the red zone as well as intermediate sideline incompletions could provide an interesting starting point for film study. Hell, any of these would give us a more objective framework to work from if you're open to using them. Do any of them work for you?

His footwork has been discussed at length, just like Cam's was--no argument from me there. What I'm asking for is a statistical indicator that supports the idea that Bryce's footwork is creating meaningful issues. With Cam, we could clearly correlate occasional high passes to footwork problems. With Bryce, there are occasional misfires as well, but we aren't seeing it surface with the frequency of severity you'd expect if it were such a persistent issue. That's why when concerns about his footwork and height are paired together, there should be some measurable statistical impact. That's what I keep coming back to. That same inconsistency shows up in the deep ball critique. Saying "he misses guys outright" suggests he either isn't seeing them or can't hit them downfield... yet, as we've already seen, he was top-10 in catchable passes over 20+ yards. If accuracy were truly the issue, it should reflect in the data. It's also worth pointing out that deep-ball concerns largely became the next talking point after he made it through the season without the durability disaster some were predicting (despite being sacked for what was then the second-most times ever for a rookie QB). As for those sideline throws you mentioned: what specific throws are you referring to? If you can identify them, I'd be happy to pull up the PFF premium grades or grab All-22 clips from NFL Pro to look at those sequences and assess how real that concern is. For my part, I'd actually like to see improvement in the intermediate game. That was a strength his rookie year, but he seemed to trade it for a stronger deep game this past season. Could that shift relate to height and footwork? Maybe! But again... we'd need data or film trends to verify that rather than assume it. On the "top-10" classification front: I know that it's a moving target for most people. That's why I've been asking for specifics. Without a shared definition, it's hard to engage meaningfully. So with you moving away from raw yardage, does that mean your preferred KPIs are now height, weight, red zone efficiency, and point differential? If so, that's totally fine (just being clear about it helps). That said... red zone success and point differential depend heavily on OL play, WR execution, coaching decisions, defense (for point differential), etc. They're influenced by the QB but not exclusively determined by him... which, like passing yards, makes them more difficult to isolate for analysis of Bryce's performance.

It's also worth noting that Cam himself said that he felt safer when running vs. sitting in the pocket because he could see the contact coming and could better prepare for it. A QB running the ball doesn't have to be a sledgehammer. He just has to be effective.

Just to clarify: I'm not arguing that height or footwork can't affect QB play. I'm asking how those concerns translate into measurable, consistent outcomes. That’s the standard we should be applying to all QBs, not just Bryce. If height is such a limitation, then we'd expect to see elevated batted passes or poor pressure evasion. Yet none of that shows up in the data. Bryce was one of the lowest in the league for batted passes and his 16.9 pressure-to-sack ratio is good enough for 9th out of all QBs with 300+ dropbacks. So if you believe footwork tied to height is a meaningful issue, what metric shows that because two that would aren't doing so? This isn't about denying flaws. It's about applying fair, consistent standards because otherwise we're not evaluating performance which means that it's not analysis taking place... it's just going off of the vibes that somebody has consciously decided on. Citing one red zone play you remember doesn't provide that consistent standard. I don't say that to dismiss your memory, but to emphasize that anecdotal evidence (especially from an avowed skeptic) shouldn’t carry more weight than consistent tape or analytics. For example, there was recently dissonance over Bryce's deep ball accuracy where it was implied that he was inaccurate throwing 20+ yards. Yet, the data and film show otherwise. And I unfortunately have to still ask since you won't directly answer: What specific metrics do you believe matter when evaluating whether a QB is top-10? You've mentioned YPA and passing yards per game, and that's fair. If that's what you're prioritizing, then let's call that your criteria but clarity matters because it prevents moving goalposts when the data doesn't match one's expectations. I appreciate the response and hope that your holiday weekend goes well also.

I'm arguing that should those supposed deficiencies, like height or pocket footwork, be as consequential as you and others have claimed, then there would be a clear, observable impact in the data. That's not unreasonable. For example, batted passes are often used as a size-related concern (see: Baker Mayfield), yet Bryce ranked among the lowest in deflections at the line. If his stature is such a limitation, why isn't it showing up there? Or are you suggesting that's why his passing yards fall short of your expectations? If the latter, I would hope that you're not discounting yards left on the field due to drops (of which he led the league in). Also, asking for specific, measurable benchmarks isn't aggression... it's accountability. If that feels uncomfortable, it might be worth reflecting on how much of your anti-Bryce argument is grounded in subjective perception rather than objective metrics. So, again: do you have any specific KPIs beyond total passing yardage, height, and weight that you consider relevant to evaluating whether a QB is top-10? If you want to add YPA and passing yards per game to those metrics, that's fair, just be clear about it. But let's not pretend that asking for clarity is some kind of provocation. I'm simply trying to understand the actual criteria... not just the vibes.

So... what metrics for production do you believe display these issues/limitations best? Are we only using total passing yards, height, and weight thresholds? If so, then what are those thresholds?

It speaks volumes that when asked to define a clear performance threshold the responses instead fixate on Bryce's size. It reinforces what’s been clear for a while now... that for some, it has never been nor will it ever be about production. Any struggles will always be chalked up to his frame, and any strong play will be downplayed or disqualified via highly mobile goalposts.

For the Panthers fans still low on Bryce and demanding that he be a top-10 QB this upcoming season: What stat(s) will you need to see? Not the vibe you want, but rather what does he need to be top-10 in specifically? Passing yards? Completion percentage? Win-loss record? PFF grades? EPA? CPOE? Asking because this was asked before and... well... it ended up that the folks down on him didn't care about the numbers as much as they cared that they just couldn't get passed his size regardless of how he performed. It would be nice to get a straight-forward answer to that without the usual deflection and redirecting.

It depends on the plan that Morgan/Canales have. If they're looking to build still, I can see them leaning into the young guys like with what they're doing at WR. If they're trying to take the training wheels off now and push for the division, then make the trade. I don't think that's the plan though... I think they look at how the team develops over the course of this season and then makes any big time moves based on those results.

Some of us see Linderbaum and Humphrey... But at the same time... Mays up there @ #6 as a sixth-round pick surrounded by first- and second- round guys is impressive and likely why they felt comfortable passing on them for other players.

Great find! Thanks for the link. For folks that are hesitant to click, they immediately start with Bryce. It's kind of funny though how much the conversation mirrors the Huddle. One person citing all of Bryce's stats showing improvement and progress, and the other ultimately circling back to, "He's just too small." Especially these two exchanges... To be fair, Derrick does provide more pointed criticisms like the lack of the screen game in Carolina, his issues with Bryce's timing in the short game, etc. A lot of it though seemed to ultimately circle back to, "too small." I guess in the end, that's what it boils down to. There's going to be fans that are eager to see Bryce perform well and look at different indicators of performance to track that potential development. Then there's going to be fans that, while they might no longer believe that Bryce can't be an NFL starter, they still believe that his size is going to prevent him from ever being a top-10 QB (which could potentially make the trade for him "worth it"). Most we can do is sit and wait.

Eh... the film and the stats don't really backup the backup allegations: top-10 pass-blocking grade, top-25 run-blocking grade, top-20 overall grade. He's got potential and was really starting to put things together at the end of the season. Him and Hunt offset each others' weaknesses fairly well imo. Mays is the better pass-blocker while Hunt the better run-blocker. Even so, the team needs to do their due diligence on the center position imo. Corbett can't be seen as anything more than a one year rental barring a sudden turnaround this season when it comes to his availability. Prospects that I've got my eyes on for 2026: Jake Slaughter (Florida) Iapani Laloulu (Oregon) Parker Brailsford (Alabama) Logan Jones (Iowa) Connor Tollison (Missouri) Connor Lew (Auburn)

Sounds like he wasn't picked up and is now on the Panthers' IR. THE DREAM STILL LIVES

There are a lot of question marks surrounding TMo right now. There were whispers leading into the draft that the team was ready to move on due to a knee issue, but they came away with no real backup plan outside of BC. Maybe the knee isn't as serious as feared… or maybe it was just front office gamesmanship, like we saw with the Jalon Walker rumors. With Icky's second contract on the horizon, the team's probably hoping Moton is open to a team-friendly extension. His consistency over the years has been incredibly underappreciated. Hunt's grades dipped last season--particularly in pass pro, where he ranked 54th among guards with 500+ pass-blocking snaps. That's not ideal, but when you step back, it's still starting-caliber play. In the run game, he was more effective--posting the 14th-highest run-blocking grade among guards with 300+ run-blocking snaps. DLew, meanwhile, was a warrior. He played through a shoulder injury all season and still ranked 17th in pass-blocking + 10th in run-blocking under those same filters. Context matters here too... in terms of 2024 cap hits, Hunt was the 17th-highest paid guard at $6.45M while DLew was 25th at $4.9M. DLew absolutely outplayed the first year of his deal. Looking ahead, Hunt will carry the #3 highest cap hit among guards in 2025 at $21.65M, while DLew will be #10 at $14.57M. If DLew maintains that level of play and Hunt bounces back in pass pro? Oooh wee mayne. That said, decisions are coming. DLew can be cut in 2026 for $9M in savings, or in 2027 for $13M. Hunt is more locked in: his contract opens up flexibility starting in 2027 ($14.3M savings) and jumps to $18M in 2028. And then there's the biggest unresolved piece: center. Cade Mays looked solid when called upon, and Christensen didn't look out of place either. Corbett's durability is a fair concern... he hasn't been able to stay on the field the past two years. If Mays locks down the center job, I think the front office moves quickly to secure RT next. Once the bookends are in place, the interior OL becomes the next long-term focus. Hopefully, they're already developing some of those answers internally.