Icege

My reaction when I see opposing fans chalk up Carolina as a free win for them in the upcoming season

That's a much fairer point worth exploring as opposed to seemingly blaming him for producing more than what a team would usually want from a 34yr old WR. It also allows us to look at who was available then as well: The same season AT was brought in the team experimented with DJ Chark as the X. Would they have been better forgoing both players and signing Nuk for $13M/2yrs? Maybe... but I don't think that exactly changes anything about the final results at the end of the season. In fact, looking at who was signed (and for how much) makes the AT deal look even better in hindsight. $8.3M avg for a dependable, veteran slot... especially when also looking at this most recent free agency: Yea, the previous front offices whiffed horribly on building the WR room. Marty Hurney and Scott Fitterer did horrible jobs there. However, this is a different GM, HC, OC, etc. The HC + OC are WR coaches. If there's a time for the team to go young and develop, it's now imo.

Wonder if this gets any movement on Shough's deal like @Basbear mentioned earlier.

Yes, remind us all how patient you are with rookies by giving up on them after just one season instead of during the offseason. No idea what Adam Thielen has to do with any of this, but go off?

If he looks even slower this season, JT O'Sullivan is gonna be on DEMON TIME.

Fans that are hating on Andy are mainly doing it because they hate Bryce and want another QB on the roster that they believe can take the starting job. That's really all there is to it at this point.

This keeps circling back to the point of... who was supposed to be targeted? The next best option was a rookie drafted at the end of the first round and he got 84 targets over 16 games. Between Coker's emergence and the additions of TMac + Horn Jr, AT is going to see his opportunities going to younger guys. Fretting that he got so many targets last season when Diontae Johnson washed out, XL struggled, and they were left with David Moore as the next best option seems to be missing the forest for the trees.

We're in alignment regarding Thielen not being a game changer/breaker for the Panthers. Getting the ball into hands of playmakers like TMac and XL is going to open up things more than it is getting it to Thielen underneath (or letting him go after 50/50 balls 20yds downfield in his mid-30s). However, in a room where the other guys are two second year guys and two rookies, having a reliable vet that they can learn from is just as important as it is for the QB to have as a reliable third option. I can see that being worth $8.5M (just 3%) of the $279.2M cap... especially when looking at what's left out there: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/position/wr However, the idea that the team is forcing production to Thielen and leading to losses isn't supported by the data. Targets, not receiving yards, are how you can tell if a player is being "force fed." In the two games mentioned, let's look at the other players available... vs. TB 10 targets - Adam Thielen 9 targets - David Moore 8 targets - Tommy Tremble, Xavier Legette 3 targets - Jonathon Brooks 1 target - Dan Chisena, Feleipe Franks, Stephen Sullivan vs. PHI 11 targets - Adam Thielen 8 targets - Xavier Legette 5 targets - Chuba Hubbard, David Moore 2 targets - Tommy Tremble 1 target - Ja'Tavion Sanders, Deven Thompkins There isn't exactly a bounty of other names to throw the ball to. In those games, AT was one of the top 2 WRs. Diontae had been gone by that point. So... yea. Agreed that Thielen isn't exactly carrying the team in his mid-30s, but it's undeniable that he was the most reliable target last season that still has quite a bit of value this season. Whether or not that value is reflected in a manner folks think on the contract is going to come down to personal taste. However, the idea that the team was forcing production to AT and that was the reason behind some losses couldn't be further from the truth.

You said that we forced production to Thielen. Why are you looking at receiving yards to confirm that rather than targets?

Dunking (HA!) aside, the team looks like they're going to be a lot of fun watching develop and challenge next season. I was really only excited about Kalkbrenner, but seeing KJ light it up, McNeeley surprise, Kon respond, and Tidjane's ascension... shoot... it was an easy choice to snag eight tickets for the preseason game vs. OKC down here in Charleston in October.

"Why is Kon so different from any draft pick we've trotted out over the years? You act like he's your brother in law. These are just conversations. It's not like any of us has any say. You're entitled to your opinion same as anyone else is entitled to theirs."

His only two games where he was targeted more than 5 - 6 times was against Tampa and Philly. Both of those were incredibly close losses. Are you sure that your memory and/or assessment are both accurate here? The data doesn't match either.

It is strange seeing the same Panthers fans that complained about Cam not getting enough help turn around and complain that Bryce has received too much help. All because they drafted a WR high in back-to-back seasons, retained a mentor QB as a back-up, and signed a veteran target just like they did for Cam? Weird...