Ivory Panther

1 minute ago, Tbe said:

Maybe, but that isn’t obvious now. Wilson was clearly inferior to Lawrence back then. Wasn’t even close.

Simms got caught up in the shiny new player and all the delusional projection you can do with a guy without a lot of film on him.

It's very obvious to most analyst...Most analyst will tell you if Bryce is 6'2 & 220 pounds, he is generational.

CJ is 6'3 & 215 and generational has never been used in the same sentence. Don't get me wrong, he was very good in college but not 1 person has ever used generational to describe his game.

To me, regardless of size, if someone has traits you call generational, it's pretty obvious. 

2 hours ago, Tbe said:

Yep, Wilson over Lawrence was inexcusable.

same thing will be said of CJ over Young in few years...

2 hours ago, NAS said:

Agree with this

1- C.J. Stroud

Blown away by the film. Makes tons of powerful, pinpoint, game-changing throws. Over and over it’s 15-30 yard throws on the money. Decision-making is not only awesome, but aggressive too.
More movement and improv than he gets credit for.

2- Bryce Young

He’s a natural at the position. Brain is on another level in terms of decision-making. And he’s super slick – tons of wow releases. Really knows how to move within the pocket too.
Arm is good, but not on the level as Stroud.

I know he also had Corral as #1 in what was a historically weak class last year so the jury is still out. But he had a pretty good track record, also had Josh Allen as the top prospect in the 2018 draft 

he also had Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence. bahahaha

1 minute ago, Panthering said:

No clue how anyone can listen to that and declare it sounds like he’s speaking about x player. Just GM speak.

As another Huddler pointed to, today ppl who want Bryce, listened to Scott and came out knowing Scott described Bryce.

ppl who want CJ listened and came out thinking Scott could be describing both or in your case ANY QB on earth...

51 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

These certainly feel like "intentional leaks" for opposing teams.... It has been reported that the Texans want Bryce... this could be us enticing them to make the deal. 

We all compete against each other. QB is by far, the most important position. So much so that we were willing to trade a lot to have a chance to draft the best one.

We have this QB want to take because he is the top of our evaluation, but you know what? we will give him to you instead if you give us more picks. Even if that was the plan (I highly doubt it) the Texans are not that dumb to believe it. They will just stay at 2.

If we think these QBs are that close and interchangeable, why wouldn't the Texans think so as well? at that point, why would they give us anything?

54 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I really wouldn’t read much into these answers. Scott isn’t going to reveal much and knows other teams may be watching 

I don’t think for a second they’ll trade back but if Scott still wants to play this ridiculous trade back game he’s obviously going to give answers that would make you think they want Young 

Actually Scott always reveals what he thinks and wants to do.

Before the draft, there was even an article by one of our beat writing about listening to what Scott says to know what Carolina will do. & because the year prior, he pretty much did exactly what he said was going to do at the presser. 

Before we traded for 1, Scott talked several times about "if you have conviction on 1 guy, you go up to get him". That's exactly what we did. Most GM wouldn't even have brought that up before they traded up so other teams wouldn't make the price go up. But that's not how Scott has operated.

So yes, Scott is pretty transparent for a GM. and if you listened to him talk about Bryce before the draft & his description today, you can clearly see that the pick is Bryce.

He made a point of talking about "processing". Who is the QB that everybody can agree is the best processor currently? 

He made it a point to specifically talked about the fact that it is more than "throwing the ball & accuracy". Who is the QB who is known the be the best thrower with accuracy? CJ.

12 hours ago, frankw said:

Serious question. Are you going to be okay if Young isn't the pick?

I’ll be fine with CJ. He is deadly accurate & throws the prettiest ball I’ve seen in a long time. I’m concerned abt his play under pressure & play making ability (although he did exceptionally well vs GA which was a 1 time affair) I’ll definitely get behind him if he is the pick, because I’m a panthers fan.

but I believe Bryce is better & will have a great career, so I rather have him.

So until draft night, I’ll continue to talk abt how Bryce should & will be the pick. 

40 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

We need to draft an Ivy League QB then. 

Imagine not wanting ur QB to be smart. Poverty fan to the max this one. Bahahahaha 

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

just for reference Drew Brees is the most accurate passer in the history of the nfl so thats quite the comparison

And To think that Bryce is better than Brees at this stage of their career

sky is the limit for Bryce. 

28 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

Bryce is five inches below average QB height. My logic is a team full of scrappy Bryce Youngs will get pummeled by a team of full grown Will Levis.

Lightweight vs Heavyweights, football is already hard enough. Relying on undersized players is one thing, picking a undersized QB at #1 is much too high a risk when there are other guys in this draft without Young's limitations.

There's nothing wrong with Bryce getting a late first round second round "prove it" contract. That's what is most likely here. Young at the moment is a pawn in a staring match and nobody is blinking.

Averages are the rules. One guy may be the acception for only but so long. 

 

 

Bahahaha that was a whole lot of none sense…let’s see on draft night & the rest of their career. 

7 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

He honestly says size is a concern. That’s how he has an out.

lol, concern doesn't mean we are not taking him. 

CJ has many concerns.

Literally Any QB coming out has concerns including TLaw, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow etc...

I don’t know how Frank will pass on who he just described. 

2 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Well, you also have the cap hit to worry about. You draft rookies, and play them, because their piece of the salary cap pie is much less than you'd otherwise pay. We could sign Chark who has proven himself to be a very good NFL receiver as well, pay quite a bit less, and not give up any draft picks in the process.

So no, I'm good. 

Chark lives in the medical tent. There is a reason Detroit is not signing him back.

as far as cap, we can borrow on next years. When teams want a player, there is always a way. The saints found a way to sign Carr...

47 minutes ago, PappyMay said:

Tee Higgins will be there in Cincy this year and prob next. They can probably afford the Tag with both Chase and Burrow on rookie deals. Better chances are getting Boyd who could be a #2 for a 5th rounder.

Ppl don't realize that Bengals is ran like a small family business.

They barely have the money to put in escroc for Burrow's contract. Poors can't afford luxuries and at this time, Higgins is just that for them.

they will absolutely trade him. The only question is when.

11 minutes ago, bobcat91 said:

Nothing. We are not going to be in a position to really make noise in the playoffs for a couple of years. Dont sabotage the build for a quick fix. Use our picks, only trade pics to move up and down. No more trades

How is a 24yo fringe top 30 WR a quick fix? that's WR1 for many teams. He is entering his prime.

who are you drafting with pick 39 that's fringe top 30 WR this year or next?

6 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

Law Of Averages. If our team knocked 5" and 30lbs off the NFL average we would get clobbered. Do that at any position and then multiple positions you see what a snowball that can become.

There are averages in every facet of life for a reason, ignore them to your eventual detriment.

This chart flies in the face of your argument. 

you are saying Bryce can't see over the line so he can't throw in the middle. 

The chart shows that QBs on average are shorter than Centers/Guard/tackles.

by your logic, no average height QB (which is basically what CJ is btw) can throw over the middle just like Bryce due to size.

So what does it matter that CJ is taller then?

2 minutes ago, Martin said:

We know that Young’s processing is awesome, but I also haven’t heard anything negative about Stroud’s processing. Have we seen any analyst say Stroud is not as good of a processor? Do we have any proof that he is not on the same level? Just because he isn’t running around like Young? That’s more a playing style thing in my mind. And to clarify, I’m totally open to this being the case, but I’m curious if anyone can back this up outside of just a random opinion?

it's based on the reports that Young actually is part of the building the game plan against the opponents every week. He gets the initial plays on sundays and the next day, knows it all and add to to them according to report. keep in mind the plan for most QBs including in the NFL is to start talking abt them on Tuesday. 

No QB in college did that this year as far as what's been reported.

And it shows when he plays. He knows exactly where everyone needs to be lined, hence why he is good a scrambling.

3 minutes ago, rayzor said:

But how can you quantifiably say that Young is superior? It's all subjective. 

I did by showing you at this stage, one is calling plays & adjust protection at the line of scrimmage while the other gets plays called in. 

Can CJ do that, I don't know. But what I do know is that he is not currently doing that...

as far as the GA game it was impressive, but it was 1 game. Can that be the new CJ? Sure. But we don't know. 

What we do know is that Bryce has add performances like the that over & over & over again.

6 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Young couldn't see over the line so he would have to move more to find lanes which people are wowed by but it isn't really indicative of anything other than the fact that he's short. 

So you are telling me 5'10 can't see over 6'5 line but 6'3 can see over 6'5? Technically, neither of them can.

It's funny how people think that QBs can see over the line. 

I'm 6'3 and I can assure you that I can't see over ppl who are 6'3 let alone taller. 

Andy Reid once said & I'm paraphrasing... "QBs don't look over building to throw the ball, they look between the buildings to throw the ball".

The "can't see over the line" thing is very overrated!

Bryce scrambles when he has to, due to pressure & not because he can't see over the line.

3 minutes ago, rayzor said:

what makes Young better? 

I would consider managing a game to mean keeping awareness of the whole field, where his guys are and where defenders are, whether downfield or in the backfield. It's using that awareness combined with skill, ability, and intuition to limit mistakes and turnovers while also pushing the ball forward efficiently and scoring points. And both are very good at it. I just think that Stroud does better without having to scramble, but, again, both do what they do really well.

 

You have literally described Young! Remember, processing is what's special with Bryce compared to anyone else in this draft.

Stroud is not in the same league as Bryce when it comes to what you have just described. that is exactly what Bryce does! CJ does this but at a much lower level.

I know that because Bryce gets 2 plays in and decides which to use depending on defense. that requires understanding of where ppl are in the field (teammates & defenders). 

what CJ has over Bryce is slightly bigger arm and very pretty spirals. His ball placement is ELITE. Bryce is very good but CJ is great there.

someone just posted total pressures for both.

Bryce in 2021: 226 pressures VS CJ in 2021: 111 pressures

Bryce in 2022: 144 pressures VS CJ in 2022: 99 pressures.

as far scrambling, of course Bryce scrambles because he gets more pressures.

CJ doesn't have to scramble as much playing in the BIG10 for a much superior team. Not sure how Scrambling is a knock on Bryce when he does it out of necessity because he plays against very good defenses.

1 hour ago, stan786 said:

Pressures according to PFF (Sack numbers are a little different for some reason)

Young (They have 7 in 2020, 35 in 2021, 18 Sacks in 2022)

• 2020 - 14 Pressures (50% Pressure to sack)
• 2021 - 226 Pressures (15.5% Pressure to sack)
• 2022 - 144 Pressures (12.5% Pressure to sack)

Stroud (They have 12 sacks in 2021 and 14 in 2022)

• 2020 - 0 Pressures
• 2021 - 111 Pressures (10.8% Pressure to sack)
• 2022 - 99 Pressures (14.1% Pressure to sack)

 

Very interesting stat. 

2021 Bryce was pressured over 100% more than CJ with similar weapons and won the Heisman.

2022 Bryce was pressured 50% more than CJ with less weapons but posted similar numbers in stats & wins.

As I have stated before, both QBs are good but Bryce has proven that he can do more.

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

i think the processing abilities and quickness are very high for both. i think that stroud may just be the better of the two at managing the game.

Based on what? lol. I feel like ppl just make "analysis" out of thin air. what is managing a game and how has Stroud done that better?

26 minutes ago, ncsfinest21 said:

Its not a matter of why, its a matter of how long?  Remember it took Brees awhile to be able to understand, adapt and master his game based on his size. He had to throw quick. Bryce extends plays, Brees took time to work work the pocket but he needed a great Oline to do so. Our Oline may not be able to do that. So there is alot of key factors when size is a issue. For Young to thrive the Oline has to be solid and be able to create windows for him. I just dont think we have that. Stroud would be a better option even if Young is better. We dont have the pieces for Young to be like that here.

I disagree with ur analysis of Young’s game.

we can speculate on injury potential but nobody knows. That mean CJ or anyone other QB can injury prone.

Bryce is 1st & foremost a pocket passer. His ability to extend plays is so good, ppl forget how good he is of a pocket passer. 
 

If u watched 21 compared to 22, u can see how bryce played differently. He threw a lot from the pocket in 21 because WRs were getting opened. This year, he created more because he had to with limited talent at WRs. A QB who is not dependent on skill positions talent is what TOP 5 QBs are in the NFL. 
 

for any QB to thrive, the Oline has to be solid…Mahomes got destroyed in SB vs Tampa when he didn’t have a line. So let me tell u that Bryce or CJ will need solid OL. If anything, bryce may thrive more as he is more mobile & manipulates the pocket better. 
 

the more I watch Stroud the more I like him & I’ll be happy with him as I think he can be special as well. 

but at the end of the day, bryce is already special in my book. 

3 minutes ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

Just watching everything I have seen from Young, I seriously don't think his style of play will translate to the NFL. He won't be able to scramble around every play to find a passing lane at the NFL level. He is get killed

I disagree…

9 hours ago, ncsfinest21 said:

Or even better yet. These D lineman are 6'6" and he gets balls batted down. College success and motivation is great but it dont transfer to the NFL. Very few under 6'1" actually do well. Drew Brees is the bunch. But it'll be hard to find many others.

Bryce out of college is way better than Brees coming out of college.

so why can’t he be as good as Brees or better in the nfl?