Ivory Panther

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Smokescreen!

 

Smokescreen in November is a hell of smokescreen lol. 
One thing abt FITT, he is pretty candid.

just hope someone has stuff from him on CJ. I’m sure he has a positive opinion, just wondering what he has to say. 

There are numerous quotes of Fitterer talking abt Bryce since last November to todays article on panthers.com

When u listened to FITT press conference abt what he is looking for in a QB, he pretty much described Young.

can anyone find Fitterer’s assessment of CJ? I’m trying to see what he thinks of CJ.

I’m of the believe that FITT & Tepper have been sold on young before they even hired Reich back in November.

whether we take CJ is really how much Reich & McCOWN can change FITT & Tepper’s mind IMO.

The night before Young's pro day, Fitterer said a group of "seven or eight" Panthers personnel surrounded him at the center of a table. They discussed Young's life on and off the field — he ordered the scallops and a salad — and they left impressed with his poise.

What ppl r missing is that Tepper loves bryce because Fitterer loves Bryce.

Listen to how FITT has been talking abt Bryce since November. Go read today’s articles on panthers.com of FITT talking abt Bryce. 
 

I believe FITT & Tepper had their sight on Bryce way before this coach & his QB got hired. I doubt that they let Reich & McCOWN make that decision. 
 

I think McCown wants CJ, I’m not sure Whr Reich leans, but I think they know if they get CJ while GM & owner wanted Bryce, they are gonna be on a very short leash.

I think in the end Bryce is the pick because FITT absolutely loves him & so does Tepper. 

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Of course we can't predict the future but one has the ideal frame the other is light. The odds favor Stroud.

odds are just that...we are talking 20 pounds difference at most. These are slim odds even if you want to look at it that way. 

Just now, frankw said:

My fear is if we take Young he does very well but eventually deals with those inevitable injuries and Stroud ends up looking legit without the injury concerns. This place would be unbearable.

ok...

you take stroud and he gets hurt while Young doesn't and plays like top 5 year in year out. 

the place would be equally unbearable. 

at the end of the day, we don't know if any of them will remain healthy...

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Yea... so I'll just say it since there really isn't a nice way to say it......

The whole, "can you tell me with certainty that CJ will last longer than Bryce" is by far, the dumbest, most moronic, asinine argument anyone can make, not to mention lazy.

Let me ask you this... can you tell me with certainty that Bryce will be a better QB than CJ?

If not, then you're still taking a chance (see how that works?)

Again, nobody is saying his injury concern is the ultimate decision making factor, it's just all part of the equation that factors into your decision.

If it was Young vs AR15 or Levis, then you take Young and take on that risk of his frame holding up.  But when you have another prospect who is essentially already a toss up with Young in regards to actual football ability, the size factor is 100% something that can tip the scales in Stroud's favor.

Lol, when Ppl don’t have arguments, They usually distract & deflect.

U making it seem like dude is going to get injured for sure.

 I don’t know that, & u don’t know that, I’ll stick with facts. 
 

today, Bryce is the better QB & project better in the NFL compared to CJ for me. 

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Who was the best defense Young played last year?

Also he has a completely different playing style than Brees.  Stroud molded his style after Brees.  

Lol, SEC…

6 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

I guess the coaching staff needs to weigh how much they can get CJ coached up to Bryce’s level between the ears. 
 

Sounds to me as great as Bryce is, he is close to his peak performance right now. CJ is not. 

Explain how he is close to his peak? What’s Bryce’s ceiling?

also ppl act like anything can be coached up. If that was the case, every QB would always get better & be QB1. 

Reich thought he could coach up Wentz in indy, that decision got him fired basically…

7 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yea, and Cam took a ton of hits, both legal and illegal, in college and in the NFL, and his body still broke down in less than 10 years even though he was bigger than most of the defenders hitting him.

It's not a matter of being concerned about Young breaking down in his first year or two, it's how is his body going to last after 5, 6, 7, 8, etc years in the league?

He doesn't have a frame that is built to last, I'd rather have the guy who could play 12-15 years than the guy I can't see even making it to year 5 without missing significant chunks of time.

Ok, so u can tell me with certainty that CJ will last longer than Bryce?

if not, then u r still taking a chance. 

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Did he not injure his throwing should last year?  

Didn’t say he is invincible lol. What the shoulder due to lack of size?

he missed 1 game.

quinton Ewers injured his shoulder last yr missing more games than Bryce.

but at this point, if u don’t want Bryce, for size & such, I respect that. I don’t have any concerns there. 

11 minutes ago, rayzor said:

oh...also, is he actually throwing? i've heard both that he is and isn't.

U think Tepper is taking his jet to Alabama is Bryce is not throwing? 

19 minutes ago, frankw said:

You generally only discuss Bryce Young and do so glowingly in all aspects while downing other prospects. If you read that post discussing the very realistic realities for both prospects and thought to yourself "triggered" perhaps it's time to consider if you are too enamored with your favorite draft pick. Good talk.

Not sure why u have an issue with me being “enamored with Bryce. Why does that bother u? 

46 minutes ago, frankw said:

Even if a QB shows a "clutch gene" in college it doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. And some of the current most clutch QB's in the league weren't necessarily that in college. It's foolish to anoint either Stroud or Young before they have put on an NFL uniform. Both have significant talent and ability. But there's no guarantee all or any of it will translate. Who even knows which QB will be the best from this years class it may not even end up being one of them. When you go all in on one prospect and elevate your level of expectations to near walk on water levels you are going to get hit in the forehead by reality. I think we should temper those expectations in the coming months regardless. Let these kids grow and learn. We can't put the weight of the world on their shoulders from the jump. It's going to be a process. Just enjoy the journey.

Not even sure what u r talking abt. Didn’t say Bryce was gonna make the HOF, or win many superbowls etc…

didn’t anoint him of anything.
Like 1000s do, I have made observations abt traits I’ve seen from him in 2yrs in college. Is that not something we are all doing with draft prospects?

don’t get triggered every time someone brings up a positive aspect of Bryce’s game…

As I keep saying, both QBs r good. if we draft CJ, I’ll support him & hope he has the intangibles I think make top 5 QBs great.
but right now I prefer Bryce because I’ve seen the intangibles. 

1 hour ago, Wolfcop said:

CJ was very clutch in the UGa game. He had the game won if the kicker does his job. Also, if OSU had Alabama”s defense, they would have easily won it all, including the Michigan game. Did you see all the big plays OSU’s defense gave up in that game? It was ridiculous. 

I do appreciate your post, though. It was well thought out and humble. If we do draft Young, I will support him 100%. 

 

Bama’s defense was actually pretty bad this year. They r the reason they lost 2 games. vs TEN they gave up almost 50 pts. vs LSU it was abt the same. Vs Tex, Ewers was eating them up until he got hurt & many other games.

Since the UGA game was the only time I’ve seen CJ being clutch in a big moment I’d say he had a clutch moment. 2 Mich loses in back to back yrs bothers me. It’s not all on him, but that’s a red flag to me when we r talking elite winner.

again, he is very good with many great traits. I absolutely love his accuracy & throws. It’s like art! Just beautiful to see him throw.
But I don’t know if he elevates the team around him. 

I’ve seen bryce will Bama to victory time after time again. 

29 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Not at all, I think every fan base could say the same thing, it's all part of the equation.  That's why there isn't a consensus on who should be the #1 pick, because Stroud is not really a lesser talent, just different and I'd rank Young only marginally ahead as a pure QB prospect.  

I also think the areas that Young is a better prospect, in terms of seeing the game, can be taught to Stroud, particularly since it's not like he's terrible at it, he's just not quite as good as Young there.  But you can't do anything about Young's size at all, sure you can get him in the gym and on a diet plan that will hopefully put a little bulk onto him, but he has a small frame, he can only get so big to help insulate him to injuries.

If there was a sizable gap between them as prospects, like if it was Young vs Levis, then no, the size factor doesn't play into it the same way and you take Young, easy call.

But I think they're very close as prospects, and when they're that close, you factor in Young's size given how small he really is.

The way u phrased it at 1st, I thought u meant it was a clear gap in ur opinion…but put it like u did, size tips it strouds way, if u worry abt it.

for me the gap is sizable. Not the throwing or accuracy or even processing, all of which are close. 
For me it’s the “clutch” gene.
But Because that’s an unintangible trait, it’s hard for most to count it.

But, I’ve seen bryce in high pressures situation over & over & dude rises to the occasion 90% of the time. He is a baller!
I don’t think Bryce loses twice to Michigan in the biggest game of the year in back to back years while having arguably comparable talent (some may argue better talent). 

I think CJ is very good & will be good for us if we draft him, but watching him for 2 yrs, he didn’t have that, “U left too much time on the clock for CJ”.
That’s obviously an opinion but that’s how I feel. 

6 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I think Young is a better QB prospect in a vacuum due to his next level mental side of things.

But I think his size is such a significant factor that Stroud is the better pick to make, particularly after everything we gave up to get him.  If we were the worst team in the league last year and #1 was already our pick, I'd be more acceptable of the Young risk, but I'd still take Stroud in that scenario too.  I don't think there is a big gap between them as pure QB prospects as they each have various things they do better than the other and are both really good prospects.

I'm also not really bothered by Young's height much at all, I don't love it, but if he had a little more stockier build like the other successful short QB's have had, I'd be much more interested in him.  I just can't see someone of his build lasting for very long in this league.  I know the game is constantly evolving to protect the QB, but defensive players are only getting bigger, stronger, faster, and it might not take many legal hits on his frame to break him down.

Having said all that, if we take Young, I won't be as happy as I would with Stroud, but I'm not going to be super upset about it, just hope he gets thicker and can avoid injury.

But if we take Richardson after everything we gave up to move up to #1, I'll lose it

Only this fanbase can say with a straight face, “yea, take the lesser talent. Because that other might get hurt”.

nevermind that any QB of any size can get hurt inside the pocket or outside.

11 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

 We get it, you are all in on Young!

Funny how u get heartburns & want to point out ppl being bias for young when u r on every thread talking young down while praising CJ.

we all have our preferences & that’s ok.
In the end, whichever QB we have will have the support of the vast majority of the fanbase unless/until he doesn’t workout…

27 minutes ago, Fright said:

His throws were crisp... a few over throws, but pro receivers are making those catches.

Maybe it's just me, but on his play action throws he looked deceptively quick. Dude's going to be a baller... I hope we take him. 

 

lol, he threw to 1st rounders. 1 of them (Marvin Harisson) may even be a pro bowler as a rookie. But sure, the overthrows would have been caught by Pros but not these guys. 

9 hours ago, MHS831 said:

that is what I wanted to see the most---thanks for providing this information OP

From these numbers, you can see how close Young and Stroud really are. 

QBR

Both are significantly better than the average NCAA QB in terms of QB rating.  In these 4 categories, Young is +25.2 above the FBS average and Stroud is +18.4 above the FBS average.  When compared to each other, Young has a fairly significant advantage when facing a blitz (+4.6 Young) and a tremendous advantage throwing outside the pocket (+26.7).  When inside the pocket, Stroud has a slightly less significant QBR advantage (+3.7 Stroud).  The ability outside the pocket is the biggest advantage for Young.  Without that category, the QBs are pretty even.

COMPLETION/OFF TARGET %

Here I will summarize--first, I found it interesting that Stroud had a higher percentage of deep balls completed (+5%) over Young, but Young's deep passes were on target more often (7.7%) That means three of four of Young's passes over 21 yards were catchable balls, while Stroud can say that over two out of three were catchable.  That suggests that Stroud had the better receivers.

Young has a red flag in that his completion percentage on deep outs from the pocket was 40%--about 8% below the FBS average and 26% lower than Stroud.  That is an important pass to throw in the NFL.  However, his off target percentage for the same throw was 5.1% better than Stroud's, so that makes little sense. Were Bama WRs and TEs that much worse that Buckeyes'?  Young has a significant accuracy advantage on the short throws, while Stroud is worse than FBS average.

From this perspective, I think these QBs are close, but I would give Young the advantage only after looking into his performance on deep sideline routes. I am sure the Panthers will be watching film and testing his arm strength to make that throw on time from the pocket.  Young's accuracy numbers are significantly higher than his completion percentages.  I would be happy with either QB.

Hooker belongs in the Richardson/Levis category, based on these stats

 

U have to take the cast they play with & level of competition in consideration. 
 

that’s why it’s tough to compare college players to each other…these numbers need to be looked with a lot of nuance. 

2 hours ago, OldhamA said:

Counterpoint, they traded up after the Combine where Young refused to take off his hoodie and participate in any drills 'cos he was carrying 15lbs of water weight...

Scott said & it had also been reported that they started the process when they got the combine on Tuesday. They met in Poles room and had several meeting during the combine. 

QBs threw at the combine on Saturday. Carolina started the process to trade for #1 on the Tuesday prior...If you still want to conclude they made the trade because of CJ throwing, that's on you.

Scott said at the podium again, he doesn't care as much about workouts for QBs. The tape is what they are concerned about...

Those who have eyes and hears know exactly who the pick is... 

7 hours ago, SOJA said:

I trust Natalie but it *really* seems like the Panthers are leaking we love Young so that Houston will give us a king's ransom to move up one spot 

If we want Young, why would we give him to Texans when we r in the same league competing with each other?

also, why is it that Texans love for Young is not a “smoke screen”? 

2 minutes ago, Wolfcop said:

Some of those watching the combine said it was the best ball placement they had ever seen in the passing drills (CJ). Others watching his tape say that he is the best pure passer in the last several years. Sounds pretty special to me. I have also read that no QB the size of Young has ever started in the NFL in the modern era. His frame is a concern. 

Look, Young was obviously special in college. None of us know how that will translate. There are concerns by some that he may not have the arm strength to get the ball where it needs to go when he is thrown off his rhythm in a crowded pocket. I have heard that by a few. We will see. I would be excited if we draft him, but concerned about the ability to keep him on the field. 

I'm not interested at all in QB workouts at the combine or pro day. You have heard the same from Scott Fitt today basically. 

they are throwing against air to wide open players. Though CJ was impressive there, It holds no water to me.

Best pure passer is something to build on, but nobody, I repeat nobody has ever said "generational" to describe CJ's game. Again, very good and I will support him and hope he can turn into a Burrow rather than Goff. But with pick 1, I'm taking generational processing traits.

5 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Just curious, are you a Bama fan?

Nope. I don't usually watch college. Didn't even watch GA vs Bama for the championship 2 yrs ago. But I knew/hoped we were drafting a QB this season so I have watched all of the top guys every week, then rewatched their Film. Hell, I even watched the Miami QB ppl thought could be a 1st round this year before he played really poorly. 

after all of that, I came to the conclusion that it is not really close & Young is the clear star of this group.

CJ is close behind. I like that he is a fighter. Saw how he was a 3 stars recruit out of high school in california and fought to get Ohio. These are good qualities which I think would serve well in his career. But I think Bryce is that much special of a player...