Seltzer

It is nice to see I'm not the only "old-timer" that sees this. I guess it's par for the course, but literally everything about the Panthers now for the most part just evokes sadness for those of us who can remember it being better, including this place. I will check out the discord- thank you for the suggestion!

This is what I hope the Panthers organization really understands. This is not just shedding casual fans. That process has already been completed from 2018-2022. This is now a hemorrhaging of legit fans (i.e. PSL owners, etc.) who were the backbone of this fanbase both in terms of fan support but also financial support. Apathy is a cancer for sports franchises, and this cancerous tumor of apathy has been metastasizing for 6+ years now throughout the Panthers fanbase.... I'm not saying this to be alarmist or pessimistic b/c that's not me, but this ain't an easy fix on-the-field or off-the-field at this point. Richardson said in 2001 when he fired Siefert that the "energy has been sucked from this franchise." That looks like a quaint bump-in-the-road compared to the straight abyss this franchise is currently wallowing around in... there is no quick or easy fix...

There is literally no other franchise, even the Bears, that would have had this dsyfunctional of an offense in place, I'm convinced. It's never been this bad in Panthers history, even under Rhule or Seifert

I'm all about realism. A lot of this is just unmitigated trolling for trolling sake. I'm cancelling my PSL's after 18 years. I've invested plenty in this organization over the years and I'm fed up too. I just also have watched a lot of football and know Bryce isn't nowhere as bad as these trolls want to make out. I completely understand not blowing sunshine, but I also have zero patience with people who want to do nothing but constantly sh*t on things when they don't know what they're talking about. You want to critique how this is the worst interior offensive line in franchise (and potentially NFL history) by the metrics? No argument here You want to critique how godawful this receiving group is? No pushback there You want to critique how pathetic this scheme & playcalling is? Perfectly legit You want to critique the one constant behind this failure in David Tepper? I 10000% concur You want to critique how Bryce's footwork has gotten off after being under constant pressure or he hasn't done enough to look guys off (which is a lot harder to do when you have no confidence your guys are getting open for anyone that's ever played)? The film shows that. You want to call Bryce a bust or not understand all the really good things he is doing in spite of the most dysfunctional offense I've ever seen? Kiss my ass And trust me, I had to defend Cam from 2011-2013 on this very board, too. There is not one single person you will ever be able to point to who actually knows football who will tell you anything other than BY9 was the top-rated college QB for a reason, and that it's impossible to evaluate any QB under these conditions. And that's simply not good enough for all the armchair GM's, hot-take artists, and trolls that have overwhelmed this place, but it's the truth. That isn't "coping" or any of the other bullsh*t these trolls simp on about. It's about actual evaluation and not worthless hysteria.

Find something else to do while the adults are trying to have a conversation. You are a pathetic troll who is lucky to hide behind a keyboard. For real, I don't have anything else to discuss with you one way or the other. Be gone. @Moderators- Is this seriously the board you want to run here??... Nothing but unmitigated trolling... seriously WTF happened to this place??

Point to one example where Bryce had an even remotely clean pocket and wasn't able to make the throw? Seriously, show me one example. People are just making sh*t up at this point. There is a litany of film showing Bryce slinging the ball 50 yards. There is some Alfred Hitchcock level gaslighting going on in here... jesus christ

When did Cam carry this team the 1st two seasons? Some of y'all either have revisionist history or can't remember. Cause there was a constant drumbeat of Cam haters and doubters from Day 1. Half this freaking board wanted Cam gone before we went on that winning streak in 2013.

True statement. Just like the team, I hope this place can turn around. It used to be fun. Now it is an un-moderated hellscape with literal clowns running wild. Just like the organization, maybe we need a hard reset with a new message board, too. I don't know. I love ya Jeremy, but this has devolved a long, long way from where it started with carolinagrowl. This board has been bastardized by the social media mentality like everything else. 15 years ago people could have somewhat legitimate discourse. Now it's just nonsense and sh*t talking that rarely if ever serves a purpose. Or maybe I'm just getting older. But trying to have a reasonable conversation on here vs even 5 years ago is night & day. It's mostly a lost cause.

Yeah Eff off keyboard warrior. I was here long before you were. You can have this place. You are the perfect representation of this franchise right now. Clowns running the organization, clowns running the message board... Your 2023 Carolina Panthers!!

There's not even legitimate discourse here anymore. Jeremy has abandoned the place (I don't blame him). Moderators are useless or are actively part of the cesspool. Basically, a reflection of the franchise. This was such a good place for a long time, too. RIP Carolina Huddle

He's accomplished more in his life already than you probably ever will... Clown avatar is fitting... Has our fanbase always been full of awful people like this? godalmighty...

Fine. You win. Enjoy watching him thrive when he finally leaves for a competent franchise. Just like everyone else. Make fun of those of us actually taking up for the most competent part of our offense. This place has become as miserable as BOA on game day... I'm guessing you'll be happy when you've ran all the fans off just like Tepper...

True to a certain extent. Even Prime Cam couldn't fix this level of dysfunction. Cam had jabronis at WR a lot, and a lot of bad Olineman, but never, ever in conjunction was it ever this bad. This is honestly one of if not the worst situations a rookie QB has ever been put in. And we were told as a franchise that wasn't going to be the case. You think Bryce's family likes watching him get plastered every week? I guarantee you this is not how they thought this was going to go, either. No QB that has ever lived is turning this chicken sh*t into chicken salad. I don't even know how to reason with someone who can't comprehend that.

Did everyone here watch the game yesterday? Maybe I'm just old and need to stop watching but jesus christ where are some of these comments coming from? BY9 didn't forget how to play football. He made several crazy throws yesterday to guys with literally no separation and fit the ball in. When guys were actually open at the top of his drop, he hit them perfectly. I've watched Stroud, and there is absolutely nothing he is doing that Bryce couldn't or wouldn't given time. Maybe it's just the overall dysfunction of this franchise over the past 6 years, but I am astounded people are blaming Bryce. I've watched a lot of bad, bad QB play in Carolina. BY9 is not a bad QB. He is a good QB playing on one of the most dysfunctional and inane offenses in NFL history. He has to be perfect to even attempt to overcome the incredibly dumb penalties and awful personnel. Like a lot of PSL owners, I'm done after this season. Trading up for Bryce was 100% a mistake, but it would have been 100% a mistake trading up for any QB with this roster. Anyone saying otherwise is stupid or hasn't watched us play. CJ Stroud isn't elevating this roster. Prime Cam Newton isn't elevating this roster. Patrick effing Mahomes ain't cooking with these misfits. Sorry, but only a delusional person would think otherwise. Watching people crap on Bryce (after crapping on DJ & CMC & Cam) honestly just makes me want to see him go somewhere else and thrive like everyone else (as long as it's not in the NFC South). These players honestly deserve better, too. Reading dumb stuff like this just makes me want to stop watching the NFL period. We used to be a somewhat proud franchise. Now we're blaming a 22-year old rookie for not saving this franchise for the accumulation of 6 years of bad decisions. Poverty franchise from the top all the way down, unfortunately...

I try to avoid this place most days, and this thread is yet another reminder... This fanbase deserves the inevitable with all these comments... Yep, it's absolutely Bryce's fault, he's holding us back... I just can't... I've been to almost every Panthers home game over the past 18 years. Bryce is a good QB in an impossible situation. If I'm BY9's agent or parents, I am trying to get him as far away from this dysfunction as fast as possible. I watched every single Panthers home game in 2011. Rookie Cam had Smitty, Olsen, Shockey, D-Will, & J-Stew along with an offensive line that still had Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil. And people still thought Cam didn't "elevate" that team enough. Do you honestly think rookie Cam is doing any better with this cast? More rushing yards maybe, but definitely no more productive in the air. Absolutely no QB ever is producing with immediate interior pressure almost every snap. What happened to Mahomes in the Bucs SB? Same thing. Most franchises would sit a rookie in this situation to protect him from an impossible situation, but we gave up too much and misjudged our situation too much to go back now. This is unequivocally the worst offensive line in franchise history. One on the worst interiors in league history in terms of pressure %. And yet the reality-free commentary flows... I guarantee you no one on this board wants BY9 gone more than those people who actually care about him. This situation is honestly even worse than Urban Meyer & Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Nick Saban, Bill O'Brien, and a litany of former coaches & players know how good BY9 is. But this fanbase seems hellbent on running Bryce off just like everyone else. When Belichick or someone else snaps up BY9 after we foolishly let him go and he turns into Brees 2.0 with a competent franchise, I hope our fanbase is content. B/c just like CMC, DJ Moore, and Baker Mayfield, I would bet every dollar I own the problem is not the players but this franchise. It's all just depressing & humiliating. And I understand the desire to blame someone. And you can blame whoever you want, whether it's reality-based or not. But as someone who has been around since the carolinagrowl days and has seen almost every snap in this franchises' history, the poverty-mindset of blaming Bryce (just like we did DJ & CMC & Cam before him) keeps the attention off of where it really lies, with David Tepper. I know it's hard when we've been down this long, but please let's make some reality-based arguments and blame the people actually responsible for this mess.

Appreciate the advice and reassurance. And I hope some dumb Cowboys fan gives me his mortgage payment. It's just so depressing to be in this same situation year after year

Where do you normally sell them? Just post them on Ticketmaster for resale?

You're probably right. Just a tough mental threshold to cross. I hate the idea of selling to the other team's fans, but at this point, I probably am better off just looking at this purely as a financial transaction and try to get the most I can. It's hard not to feel like as fans that Tepper has just drained us while putting the worst product in the NFL on the field.

Which part? I know the product on the field has been... My boys have seen 6 wins at home out of 23 games they've been to. That's barely 1 out of 4... I love the Panthers and always will, but I'm done making excuses for this organization. I've done my part as a fan and PSL owner for years. This franchise has let us all down.

I have 4 tickets each for the Dallas & Green Bay games. Willing to sell to Panthers fans at face value. These are good seats, just have plans (and I wasn't going to overrule my wife when we suck this bad). Mods can move this if need-be if this isn't the right forum. Wanted to offer here to Panthers fans first before I just sell on the secondary market for the most money. I've never sold out in 18 years to opposing fans but screw this organization for not putting a better product on the field for 6 straight years. Section 540, Row 19 Seats 9-12. Please DM me if interested.

I think $17-18M is probably more realistic, and that number is going up if Frankie keeps playing at the level he is.

Perfect comparison. And Beason was a pro-Bowler so that's not faint praise. Nobody else will ever be Luke, but we finally have another Pro-Bowl caliber LB. If we could ever have the luck as a franchise on WR's or CB's we've had on LB's it would great.

Good analysis. Bryce is going to get stronger. He's only what 21 or 22? Remember CMC getting drug down by arm tackles during his rookie season? Everyone said Kamara was better and CMC wouldn't be able to run in between the tackles at the NFL level. CMC bulked up and nobody remembers saying that now. Bryce's height isn't an issue. We've seen that at Bama and now the NFL. Bryce had 3 batted balls on Sunday, Bryce none. In some respects, Bryce is probably more cognizant of throwing lanes than most QB's b/c of his height. Regardless, he's on pace to have less batted balls as a rookie than Cam did. As long as he continues to add muscle as he matures and tries to avoid big hits, there's nothing else he can do. And if you look at the statistics, "smaller" QB's don't get hurt anymore frequently than big QB's. Look at Anthony Richardson this year. Sh*t happens, and anyone can get injured. Bryce has already proved he can take big hits and still keep his composure.

I'm glad it's gaining traction. We got to get this fanbase back. Everybody remembers the joy of screaming "Luke" when #59 made a play. We finally got another dawg at LB we can get behind like that.

Insane part was we had the right 3 headed attack last year. Sanders was an all-time FA bust. Hubbard is great but we just need a short yardage back. Just a bad, bad decision in retrospect not to resign Foreman. Finally, you have to credit Hubbard so much. Evidently him and Tremble stayed everyday after practice working on the JUGS machines and it's paying off. Hubbard saw early on with CMC what the standard was for a RB1 in the NFL. And he was worked his ass off to get to that point. Nothing but respect.