Seltzer

Exactly. And the fact that he has taken 2 of those to the house means defenses have to respect it. It does a lot to open up the run game and overall stress the defense. I don't expect him to be an exceptional receiver, but his role is important. And look at his PFF grades. Not that I put too much stock in those, but according to them he has played quite well. He is a great run blocker for a receiver too. For all the crap given to McAdoo (and much rightly so), him convincing Rhule and Fitterer to pick up Shenault was a good move.

Thought the same thing. Although I guess Wilks deserves credit for mixing it up and trying to get him some useful reps since we are paying him. It will never not be embarrassing that Rhule really sought him and Elflein out as priority free agents on day 1...

The Burns hate is both bizarre and yet somehow even moreso idiotic... I've been around since the carolinagrowl days, and this is honestly one of the worst threads I've seen in 18 years. Good lord man, even now and then just realize every stupid thought that goes into your skull doesn't warrant a nonsensical thread... There are a collection of "fans" who frequent here who don't seem to be able to cope unless everything is awful and they are capable of pulling everyone else into their misery. What a way to live... this is the greatest day for Panthers Nation since 2017 and people are still posting straight up BS like this...

I was thinking the exact same damn thing during that replay!

Laviska plays an underrated role on this team, especially in the run game. His motion and ability to take what is basically an extended handoff really puts a lot of pressure on everyone on the defense tackling. I think he is actually the perfect WR3 for this current offense.

Problem is many, many tickets were sold before this week to Steelers fans. Even in a really good year, there are probably at least 35-40% Steelers fans. I'm just hoping it's no more than 50/50 and we win another home game.

I honestly think you're overestimating how revelant the Panthers are. Casual fans don't even knew how he played here since he wasn't on any national games (PJ started TNF). Browns fans that still follow him have to be equally embarrassed bc he is still way more associated with them than us. I think for the most part we are so irrelevant that we can't even be a laughingstock right now. For the most part, no one cares Maybe that's worse...

I do think tonight has to be an indictment on McAdoo which ultimately goes back to Matt Rhule. McAdoo better call the game of his life Sunday. That being said, good for Baker. He made some incredible throws, especially on that last drive. He didn't make those throws here. And no one besides the Rams put in a waiver claim. None of the playoff teams, especially San Fran looked at his film this year (or last year) and thought he'd be an upgrade. I think tonight will still prove to be more anomaly than not, but it doesn't diminish how incredible it was, and it definitely puts him from being on the fringes of the league to absolutely being securely on a team next season and beyond.

The fact that $25M for a QB is a bargain still seems insane, but you are 100% correct in terms of market value.

This. If the Lions were in the first stages of a rebuild, I think they would draft a rookie and just let them start right away. The Lions have playoff aspirations next year, so they are not going to go all-in on a rookie with no backup plan. The only team I see drafting a rookie QB that they 100% plan to start immediately is the Texans. We should follow the same plan as Detroit. These last 5 games IMO are an evaluation on whether we try to resign Sam or PJ to pair with Matt Corral and whoever we draft at QB going into next year. This roster likewise is too good to completely trust it to a rookie QB until they are ready IMO. And I trust Sam or PJ to be a good backup and mentor if that's required. Even with the uncertainty at QB and potentially HC, I still feel so much better about the direction of this team now than at any point under Rhule. We are finally starting to develop an identity again of being a hard-nosed football team and winning in the trenches. That's not something you can fake with "The Brand," "DBO," or "OOU." It's so embarrassing in retrospect that we had a NFL coach resort to those type of tactics and honestly think they would be a rallying cry for grown men...

Jordan Gross is a good comp, although I think Icky can be more dominant in the run game. That's not a slight on Jordan Gross, just that Icky can be an elite LT in both pass protection & run blocking. Gross was elite in pass protection and average to above average in run blocking (him and Travelle Wharton were great together). The fact we can even make that comp is welcome news after floundering for almost a decade to replace Gross. It's hard not to think what could have been with Cam & Luke had we been able to have even an adequate Oline for their careers here. I feel like at least one SB win. Oh well, all we can do is look to the future, and for the first time in many, many years, the offensive line is becoming a strength and not a liability.

Between that, the mishandling of Christensen last year, and the non-development of a guy like TMJ that can be our legit WR2 all are searing indictments of his lack of coaching acumen and talent. TMJ to me could absolutely be Moose 2.0. The fact that he was languishing behind Robbie and Shi (and arguably even Higgins) is coaching malpractice. That being said, the fact the we have Icky and Moton as bookend tackles, along with a solid interior with Christensen, Bozeman, and Corbett, means more than any one accolade. Although Icky is worthy IMO of winning OROY. This team really is a competent QB away from opening a window for contention. It's not unreasonable to say the Panthers have arguably both the best offensive and defensive lines in the NFC South. That is huge going forward over the next few years.

This 100%. Other than finding a franchise QB, finding a premier Edge rusher is the next hardest thing to do. Brian Burns is 24. His value most certainly is not going down anytime soon. The people who thought we "had to trade him for picks" simply don't understand current NFL roster construction and positional importance. I can understand both sides of an argument I'm most situations, but I genuinely don't think there's any compelling reason not to. Like you said, there are zero parallels here to the CMC situation. Complete apples to oranges. The Rams were throwing out an offer to see if they had a sucker on the other line with the early season chaos. If you aren't going to pay Burns, you are sending a clear message to the locker room you're not serious about trying to win. He literally is the best pass rusher we've had since Peppers. Maybe it's the fantasy football ideation that has taken over a lot of fans, but real NFL footall is not Madden or any other video game/ fantasy iteration. The odds are extremely low even with 2 first rounders you will find equivalent value to a Top 10 Edge Rusher. It's a fool's bet unless there are other compelling reasons (i.e. salary cap constraints), but even then they have to be severe to make any sense whatsoever. Bottom line, there is no reason not to do the extension now, and a whole bunch of reasons to do it.

As someone who has sat in the upper deck for the past 16 years, I appreciate it. A couple of years back you couldn't here jack in the 500s from the PA system So I'm betting for everyone complaining in the lower level, there was someone from the upper level complaining they couldn't hear anything

There's a lot of people here who would rather not let the facts get in the way of their narrative... Anyone who thinks the national perspective of either of these teams being a juggernaut heading into the playoffs either didn't live through it or has revisionist history... The 2015 team was a juggernaut going into the playoffs. No doubt about that. However... The 1996 team was considered a lucky expansion team with some legit defensive talent but no one trusted that offense with Kerry Collins. The 2003 team was the original iteration of the Cardiac Cats. Nationally, the narrative was that we snuck into the playoffs winning a lot of close OT games that went our way (which is true), and that we greatly benefitted from the Bucs imploding off their SB win and Michael Vick breaking his leg in preseason and missing most of the year. Again, people thought the defense was legit, but no one saw the offensive explosion that came in the 2003 playoffs or believed we had any chance against the NFC's best. Point being, the narrative written after the season is much different than the one during the season, and rightfully so. So much of this fanbase has become so accustomed to failure that they actively fear what a playoff appearance could bring.

The exact same thing was said verbatim in 1996 & 2003... not sure if you're old enough to remember, but literally no one outside of Charlotte was giving us a chance in either of those games, either. And we embarrassed them twice. Badly The Cowboys were defending SB champions in '96 and were still a dynasty The Cowboys in 2003 were the national media's darling b/c Bill Parcells was there and we were again considered nobodies who had gotten lucky. Anyone who thought the 2003 was making a SB run even when the playoffs started is now lying. The idea that this team would have "no chance" has no bearing on reality, sorry. Literally anything can and has happened in the playoffs. And it is a sign of how defeatist so much of this fanbase has become... I'm not trying to mean, but it is so weak and pathetic to have that outlook. And I would give more credence to it if I honestly saw teams in the NFC that we couldn't beat in 1 game, but there are none. Dallas, Minnesota, Philly, San Fran... none of them even look remotely unbeatable, even by this Panthers team. Do I think we would have a chance against the AFC's best? Absolutely not, but why even worry about that right now...

After watching both Stroud & Young over the past month, I'd certainly much rather fight for a playoff spot that to "fight" for the right to draft them. Not saying they aren't talented or could be good NFL QB's, but no scout or talent evaluator in the league could say with a straight face that tanking for these guys is justified like you could have made the argument for regarding Andrew Luck, Joe Burrow, even Cam. IMO, there's a much, much better chance these 2 follow a Jameis Winston/ Marcus Mariota path than both or either developing into a franchise QB. I don't think Bryce Young is any better of a prospect than Tua, and I would have rather drafter Justin Fields than CJ Stroud.

Yeah and that fugged 7-8-1 record in 2014 helped to propel this team to a SB berth in 2015. I genuinely don't understand the people so worried we are going to "miss" on CJ Stroud or Bryce Young. Seriously?? They look like another Jameis Winston/Marcus Mariota combo to me. If there was a year to tank, this ain't it. If there was a talent like Cam, Andrew Luck, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence then I could see it, but Stroud & Young ain't those guys. Doesn't mean they won't develop into good QB's, but there is zero evidence of any transcendent talent there. I've really yet to see any evidence these guys are worth tanking for. And we still have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. I can't understand the tanking mentality for the season right now while the division is still in play. It's been years since I've felt this optimistic about the team long-term. We have a legit LT, arguably the best tackle combo we've ever had, a top 10 Oline, a true #1 receiver, the best Edge player in Burns we've had since Peppers, a true lockdown CB in Horn, a top 10 DT in Derrick Brown, a beast at LB in Luvu, and a starting caliber RB in Foreman. Yes, there are still holes, but the only one holding this team back from the playoffs is QB. Looking at this roster compared to 2020 is eye-opening. It's just so, so much better. There are people who tilt too far in the homer direction (myself-included sometimes), but the current amount of negativity doesn't fit the current reality IMHO. I'm just enjoying this wild ride of oscillating between a top 10 pick and the playoffs. It's beats the crap out of the past few seasons. I feel like a lot of people wanting unmitigated disaster and doom are really reaching here. Given the sorry overall state of the NFC South and the NFC overall, we are definitely in a decent position to capitalize going forward over the next few years.

I for one would be cool with keeping Wilks as HC and bringing Reich in as OC if that is a possibility. I think Wilks has done a very commendable job thus far, stepping into a 1-5 team that had just traded away their best player. Anyone that has ever held a significant leadership role knows how easy it would be for both the coach and the players to basically play out the string. It takes someone who truly can connect with and inspire the players to keep them going after such a horrid start, both on and off the field. Do I think he is the best HC choice? I don't know. I agree everything needs to be readdressed at the end of the season, but Wilks certainly wouldn't be the worst choice. I'm sure there is a lot of revisionist history now, but very, very few people thought that Mike Tomlin would be a worthy successor to Bill Cowher, but having the benefit of hindsight, Tomlin was not only a worthy successor but overall has probably been the better coach. Just like getting a franchise QB, there is no magic pathway to getting the right Head Coach. Wilks was never given a fair shake in Arizona. There is no "fair" per se in professional sports, but there is no one I can think of as being more deserving of another legitimate chance of leading an NFL team more than Wilks. This is Wilks' dream job. There are very few candidates you could truly say that for. The Panthers were never Rhule's ultimate destination. As a fan, it's not the most important thing, winning is, but it does matter. Wilks has a vision for this team for this team's identity, is 100% dedicated to this team, and is dedicated to bringing this fanbase back the stadium experience we deserve. My last 3 home games have been fun. It's been a long time since I could say that. Carolina is in Wilks' blood, just like it is for us here. I hope it works out. He is a leader of men, and he genuinely cares about Carolina Panthers beyond just his resume.

The Broncos still had a top 5 defense coming in. Much like us, their issues have been 99% on the offensive side, but they didn't roll over yesterday. I don't think there was any lack of effort by either team, the Broncos offense is just that bad. We've all seen way too much bad Sam to make any long-term prognostications, but Sam played good within the framework of the game yesterday, and he made several elite throws. That TD and 52-yard bomb to DJ were elite throws. This is a week-to-week league. The Panthers look like a different team than they were under Rhule. What does that mean for the remaining games? I 100% agree that I think any record from 6-11 to 9-8 is possible. And I'm at peace with that. I feel better about the direction of the team now than I have since 2019. Let's just enjoy the season and see what happens. I genuinely don't understand the consternation over winning. CJ Stroud & Bryce Young are not IMO generational players that we are in great "risk" of missing out on. We're still going to have a chance to get a good QB prospect and have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. It's not all sunshine and roses, but it's not all doom & gloom either

Both looked like questionable calls at the stadium but they only show Homer angles. Were they both legit penalties?

Bad day for the Burns haters today. In the words of Les Snead, "F Them Picks." Much rather have 53 No one other than Peppers has made plays like this in Panthers history as an Edge player

This. There's not a chance anyone here would turn down life-altering money from a billionaire determined to give it to you. Anyway, I'm personally happy for him. The NFL wasn't for him, and Rhule did unequivocally fail at the QB position. He also failed at surrounding himself with coaches with NFL experience early on. However, there are some revisionists here that won't give him credit for anything. Objectively, the Panthers had the worst roster in the NFL when Rhule took over. And now, outside of QB (although it obviously is the most important position), this roster is in much better shape. To the point where this team is in playoff contention with even close to average QB play. My historical comparison I hope holds is the Sefiert to Fox transition. Seifert came in with a lot of fanfare and was an utter failure like Rhule in many respects, but in retrospect Seifert's roster building and drafts, especially the last (Morgan, Jenkins, Smith) really set the team up for success under a better coach in Fox. Regardless, this chapter is over. Maybe its the homer in me, but I do hope there is something positive that comes out of this for both sides. And Tepper isn't going to miss the money one way or the other.

This times a thousand. And this fanbase has no further interest in seeing Baker behind center under any circumstances

These same people would have wanted to trade after Peppers 2007 season also... A consistent pass rusher is almost as hard to find as a franchise QB and we literally have people mad we haven't already traded our best Edge rusher in 15 years who just had 2 sacks against one of the hardest guys in the league to sack... How do you even begin to try to reason with this mentality?