Seltzer

Even a conditional pick b/c neither will be on this team next year.

Vegas is based on perception... they want to split the bets and put the money line where they think that will happen. The national perception is still that the Panthers don't want to win and the line reflects that. Start winning some more and the perception (and thus the line) will change.

Seriously, where are the Panthers deeply flawed... outside of QB? B/c I've watched this team since the beginning, and it has been evident to me that this roster was far too talented for the crap product Rhule put on the field. Rhule sucked as an NFL coach, and he bungled QB about as bad as possible, but he did ok rebuilding the awful roster he inherited. The Panthers are light years better in the trenches than 3 years ago. That is not insignificant. Cam would have loved to have this offensive line and skill position group (even with CMC gone), b/c it's better than what we normally gave him. Obviously, nothing trumps getting QB right, but it's simply not true that this team has a deeply flawed roster. And losing CMC obviously hurts (although Foreman & Hubbard looked fine), but Robbie was addition by subtraction. I was worried about TE & LB, but the LBers have played well even though not elite. We could still use another TE, but Thomas is a good blocker, and hopefully we will continue to develop Tremble as a pass catcher... most TE's take some time. Is this roster on par with the Bills or Chiefs? Of course not. But I vehemently disagree with the notion that this roster is a trainwreck but it's not. And as we start getting some competent QB play, that fact will continue to become more apparent.

At the very least after last season. It was obvious from watching the sideline yesterday and the post-game locker room these men want to follow Wilks way more than they ever did the short-order cook in a smock...

I think we can run all day on Atlanta. The Bucs defense is still good (although not close to a few years ago), but our Oline had their way with them. This team can and should run the ball a lot. Atlanta has some juice on offense, but their defense simply lacks talent. I'm still torn on this season. I do think Rhule was the majority of the problem... there was/is entirely too much talent for this team to play so bad. This division truly is bad enough to be won. I really want Steve Wilks to get a fair shake. That being said, we all know a franchise QB is the biggest long-term goal. As we saw yesterday, we finally have been built right in the trenches. That goes a long, long way to supporting a young QB. DJ is still capable of WR1 things in case people forgot. The cupboard is certainly not bare. I feel a lot better about the CMC trade. The idea of a multi-year rebuild is bs. Honestly, losing this year is still probably in our best long-term interest, but this team and fanbase needed that win yesterday. Draft be damned, it felt amazing beating TB12 in his last game at BOA. Ironically too, it was one of the most fun games I've ever been to in 16+ years... the energy on the Panthers sideline was palpable. Like they had finally been unleashed from the Rhule curse.

Ummm... we don't have Cam and that is certainly huge... But... the current secondary and Oline are far superior than that 2013 team. The 2013 team had a better Front 7 overall, but Burns, Brown, and Luvu to go along with Horn & Chinn make it a wash for me This roster overall has as much if not more overall talent than 2013. QB & HC make a massive difference

When you've reached this level of rock bottom, where else can it go? I certainly didn't mean things are sunshine and roses. But I would take our position over the Saints going forward. Of course, they haven't already had to endure 4+ years of current misery

If it makes you feel any better, the Saints are projected to be $65M over the cap with just 36 guys signed next year. And no 1st Rounder The salary cap is not great, but it's nowhere near disaster. Especially considering we aren't going to be adding a huge QB salary next year.

No offense, but what are you talking about? With Brady leaving, all 4 NFC South teams will be looking for a QB. I'm pissed we didn't rebuild earlier, but given our division, having the #1 pick and a chance to take the best QB is objectively good timing. Still doesn't erase the awfulness of the past 5 years, but we are certainly not too late given this division.

Maybe I was too young and naive in 2001 to realize how bad we were, and maybe I've just suppressed the bad Clausen memories of 2010 (or revised them in hindsight considering we got Cam), but this feels like rock bottom as a fan. Most fairweather fans have simply disengaged, and even the most loyal fans are wavering. There's no goodwill left for another 3 years of crap It's hard to overstate how important it is to get this next draft and QB hire right.

The retread thing can work in a given year, but the only teams that are consistently good over a 10+ year period have franchise QB's. There's no getting around that. The team is making the right move. Unfortunately, it just adds to the overwhelming misery that has been the past 5 years. I just hope this works

You're right, but it's impossible not to be scarred by how effed the last few years have been. It's hard not to almost fall into mediocrity/ being borderline good in the parity-driven NFL at some point. Atlanta is 3-3 with a roster that on paper (well at least before the CMC trade) was significantly worse. 5 consecutive seasons of not being in the mix come Thanksgiving has taken its toll on the general fanbase. 5 years of not even competing for the playoffs is almost unspeakably bad. The amount of bad coaching and bad execution required to go 1-27 in one-possession games is astounding. The man who rose to the top of the hedge fund world has plunged us into the NFL doldrums... I honestly have tickets to Sundays game and am thinking of just staying home and eating the tickets. I can't bear the thought of selling my tickets to some fantasy-football goobers wearing freshly-brought TB12 jerseys, but for the first time in 16+ years, I just don't know if I have it in me to sit in BOA and endure it. If there is anyone here who wants pretty damn good upper-level seats (540 Row 19), I'm willing to sell real cheap to a Panthers fan. I know people on this board complain about the fans at BOA, but it's unfair at this point. Fans will show up if the team warrants it (look at Cam's return last year). It is borderline emotional and mental abuse to have to endure this level of offensive ineptitude while being laughed at in your home stadium. It's embarrassing to me to have my boys have to endure this year in and year out. There's nothing else to do but wait and hope this plan works. It is a much better plan than what we've done the past 3 years, but it can't wash off the awful, awful stain of these past 4 years. Only winning will do that. Panthers Nation deserves better...

They should be. This works out great for CMC. Panthers Nation will always love him. It's a bittersweet day for sure. Hope CMC balls out in SF

I'm cool with starting him the rest of the way. No lie. He might have a place on this team next year. Baker, Sam, and PJ do not. Upside is we develop another QB along with Corral and whoever we draft. There is no downside b/c if he sucks, we get a better pick and dump him, too.

True statement. I wish things could have been different. But this was ultimately the best move. Even though my boys are devastated and wondering if the Panthers will ever be good again. I'm just tired of sucking... it's hard to be bad as long as we have in a NFL that almost guarantees parity... even the Falcons are 3-3 this year with the worst on-paper roster in the NFL. Maybe I was too naive in 2001 and too traumatized by Jimmy Clausen in 2010 and have unconsciously blocked it out, but to me, this is the lowest point of my Panthers fandom. I've almost lost perspective over all the eff ups this team has made over the past 5 years. Just be better and win... I can't raise 3 boys as Panthers fans if the team never, ever gives them anything to cheer for. I'm just tired and worn down

It's almost unbearable... I want the Panthers to be better for many reasons, but this is one of the biggest ones. A good 50% of threads these days are absolute nonsense... I know it's tough for quality content when the team has been this bad for so long, but these kind of threads are both embarrassing for lack of knowledge about team construction and salary cap. And pathetic when users are making multiple such threads... the same people who trashed Rhule the loudest and now proposing trades more idiotic than anything Rhule could ever dream of

If you honestly think the Panthers don't have the weapons capable of competing, you haven't watched this team very long. Cam Newton did more his entire career here with less. This isn't even speculation b/c these guys have proven themselves. Robbie put up over 1k yards here 2 years ago. He hasn't lost a step. If you don't think DJ is a bona fide WR1, you simply don't know football. Shi Smith, TMJ, Higgins, and Shenault are perfectly decent depth wide receivers. Freaking all 6 of our wide receivers are arguably better than what Cam finished the season with in 2017!!! CMC is still all-world. And Foreman and Hubbard are pretty good in limited reps. The issue is coaching and QB. I'm not watching the same game as some of the rest of you. Fantasy football is creating a whole generation of fans who only seem to understand the game on those terms...

Exactly. I've watched the Panthers since the beginning. This team has the most talent of any Panthers team since 2017, and if you take away MVP Cam, I'm not sure that this team doesn't have more talent than the 2015 Panthers. That's what an elite QB can do for you. This team with even competent QB play could easily be a playoff team. No team is stacked across the board. But this year's team has 5 Pro-Bowl caliber players on defense (Burns, Brown, Luvu, Chinn, & Horn). The offensive line has played like a top 10 unit. We have 2 receivers that have put up 1k seasons. And not to mention CMC. People overestimate the talent on really good teams b/c elite QB play and complimentary football make everything else seem better. The Panthers never really had either one during the Rhule Era. But this is a top 10 Defense with a team that could even muster a little bit of complimentary football. And with a solid Oline finally and CMC, there is no reason beyond scheme/ playcalling & competent QB play from a top 10 (or at least top half) offense. To me, the ultimately damning thing for Rhule was that he did finally have a roster capable of competing, but he completely failed to upgrade (or for that matter, replicate) the level of QB play when Rhule started. Some people I think get more joy from the idea of always tearing down, but when you have a solid foundation like the Panthers do, that would be the epitome of stupid. The foundation is here, we just need a real NFL capable head coach and QB to bring this house together.

I loved it. Anyone who lives around Denver/ western LKN knows what a self-important douche Scott Fowler is. Don't get me started. I know everyone enjoyed watching Tepper squirm (me included after 4 brutal years), but Scott Fowler is absolutely not worth an ounce of sympathy. Nice to see him get treated like the nobody he is.

The talent on this roster is above average. We have more talent than any team since 2015. I've watched this team since 1995. There is plenty of talent. This team sucks bc of the QB and offensive play calling, almost exclusively

If you have PSLs are are already committed financially, do you not show up? I handle multiple million dollar accounts but even I couldn't sell someone else to pay for this crap

Exactly... and cutting Nixon this early on just to sign this guy??

Unless they think Nixon is never going to be the same post injury, this makes no sense IMO

Exactly. It's past time. I've certainly not been sold on Rhule, but some people are just overboard to the point I honestly think they get more pleasure when this teams fails than succeeds. Rhule has done an underrated job of revamping the God awful roster he inherited. He does deserve every ounce of criticism about his QB decisions, but if Baker can be the guy, the so what? If Rhule can't lead this team to playoffs in year 3, I'm cool with and want to change direction. But some people act like Rhule hasn't done anything right and that's simply not true. This roster is significantly better than what we had rolling into 2020. Yes, there are still depth concerns but almost every team has that. We at least have legitimate starters unlike in 2020 where we started a guy (Rasul Douglas) less than 2 weeks after he was cut. I could see Rhule's tenure being much like Seifert's. Didn't look good at the time, but both will get better credit in retrospect for rebuilding and drafting good players, even if they weren't the right guys to be the head coach. Anyway, let's give the man at least a few games this season before acting like it's an unmitigated disaster

It was a cheap shot, totally unnecessary and completely unacceptable for practice. He definitely deserved to be thrown out of practice. But Robinson looks like he could be a core ST guy, provides good depth, and has some dawg in him we've been solely lacking. All unrelated to this video in a vacuum. I'd rather have KRob over Franklin or Chandler. He offers so much more and it's past time to wash all the unnecessary Temple/Baylor players off the roster. I'm tired of losing, tired of us being boring, and tired of not having an identity. KRob can help on all 3... hope he makes the 53