Smittymoose

lol PFF 1. Why should I trust that? I have no idea how they are reaching that conclusion or whether it means anything of import at all. What if three guys had 40 yards each against him in a game? Is that still a quality showing? 2. Doesn’t include the many PIs he puts up because he’s very grabby. That kind of play will lead to even more flags (and penalty yards) in the NFL

Interceptions from CBs are pretty overrated. There’s a lot of variance in those numbers year-to-year. The problems with Horn are that he’s not very consistent, gets his head a little too big for his britches, and I don’t think his play speed matches his Underwear Olympics testing. The high end play from him looks really good at times, but he’s too risky for me to be happy with at 8. Hard to believe you could line up Carolina’s board, and he’d be the 8th best player.

I think you might be surprised. He has physical tools, but any GM is going to question his competitiveness, or really his ability too, after he packed his bags and went home once he didn’t show out in camp at UGA. Really I didn’t even think he was impressive against better competition at Wake. For example, Clawsen didn’t trust him to do anything against Clemson except run that delayed mesh zone and throw yolo bombs on the outside. I wouldn’t be disappointed if Carolina took a shot on the tools in day 3, but I don’t think he’s any kind of lock to go before the 6th round. He might, he might not.

oh boy, would be an awful pick

lol Franks is legit terrible. Buechele and Ehlinger are better. Newman could fit the criteria as well if he drops into the 6th or later.

It’s not really a tough call. I am not a fan of drafting any of those receivers in the top 10 except for Chase, who is at worst the 3rd best non-QB in the class. Honestly you could make an argument he’s the best. There will be starter-quality tackles available at 39, but there won’t be a Ja’Marr Chase. He’s not going to be there unless Atlanta trades down, which they aren’t going to do, but he’d be an A+ no doubter. And this is coming from someone who likes Slater.

lol trading up so many weeks away from the draft was completely idiotic. they were sure they’d get one of Pitts or Chase, now looks like neither will be around.

Why sign a 35 year old QB in the first place if you're "tanking?" Nothing the Panthers did in 2019 would prevent them from signing a player in 2021. Not a single thing. Not that splurging in FA is a good way to build a team anyways. Well, sure, you can pick one guy out of the list, but conveniently you ignored the rest. Giving Joe Schobert $50M sure was a great strategy for "tanking," right? And you act like signing, Weatherly, Roberts, etc. significantly improved Carolina while signing Mike Glennon is a joke. They filled the roster out with veterans. It didn't hurt the team short or long term. Get real, you're just wrong. Not exactly. Your cash expenditures in that time have to equal 89%, not your cap hit. For example, Teddy's entire signing bonus for those purposes would count towards 2020, not as prorated through 2022. It just goes to show that people like you with the Madden mindset really don't account for, or even understand, this sort of thing.

PFF has a very successful model of providing actual tracking stats and tendencies to teams. Their publicly available grades, though, are rather ridiculous and are presented as a "stat" though all they are truly are subjective tape grades.

You also don't get it. None of the contracts that were signed last off-season were long-term commitments. The NFL literally requires teams to spend the money somewhere. Carolina was still in one of the most advantageous cap situations in the league going into this off-season. I don't know what else you can seriously ask for.

Wow, that sure is a lot of words for being completely unrealistic and wrong. Funny honestly. You obviously don't understand how NFL contracts work if you think we "threw away" $70M on those guys. You have to fill a roster and field a team. The cap floor was $175M last year. Carolina was going to sign some free agents. You take cheap fliers on guys every year intentionally. If it works out, great, maybe you have a year like 2015. If it doesn't, then you churn through those bottom of the roster guys at the end of the year. That's what's happening here. The only one that was even a semi-costly mistake was Teddy, and even that contract is again, not bad as the impact is minimal beyond 2020 and 2021. The Jets got an offer they couldn't turn down for a disgruntled player. If they were mailing it in, then they wouldn't have asked for McDougald in return. There's a difference between intentionally tanking and just being bad. They were just bad. They were not tanking. You don't get it. You're bitching about Carolina not "tanking," but Miami's "tank" lead to them ending up a grand 3 draft spots in 2019 ahead of Carolina this year. Who was Carolina going to trade for first round picks last year? Realistically? Let's see your list. And you are still so hilariously wrong. Miami gave Ryan Fitzpatrick a two-year deal worth 8 figures. They signed Dwayne Allen and Eric Rowe. They gave up a second round pick for Josh Rosen. They re-signed DeVante Parker when he'd done nothing prior to that. The Jaguars signed Mike Glennon, Chris Thompson, Tyler Eifert, Cassius Marsh, Aaron Lynch, Al Woods, Joe Schobert, and Rashaan Melvin to their tank squad. Schobert's deal was worth $50M total. The kind of do-nothing off-season for which you're advocating is non-existent in the NFL even for teams that are legitimately tearing down their rosters.

Teddy was worth a flier. He was young with some theoretical upside. It didn’t work out here. In the grand scheme of things, that contract is not a big deal. Basically a two year commitment for a QB is nothing, it’s a throwaway deal. The Jets didn’t tank. They just suck. The only guy they traded was Adams, and they acquired an older safety along with a package of picks, proving that it wasn’t just a teardown deal. For all of the talk of the Dolphins tank, the drafted #5 last year and #18 this year, three whole spots better than Carolina this year in their “tank” year. And they started a 35 year old QB in 2019, doesn’t really sound to me like a team who is gutting the roster of veterans. Basically, they just robbed the Texans blind for Tunsil. You could argue the Jaguars legitimately tanked, I guess, and we’ll see what happens. It took the Jets pulling off two late season wins for them to even get in position for Lawrence. It’s funny you criticize the “bad decisions” in FA for Carolina, but act like the teams that load up on all these picks are definitely going to draft certified studs. Tua, for example, is awful.

NFL teams don’t manage their roster like they‘re playing Madden. Move on and get over it.

Needs a bro for those moobs

Hah! I think that guy is a fanboy blogger who is making more of a generic report than is really there. Basically of course they’d “explore” it to see if they can get a good deal, like every team should, but I don’t think they are getting 7 or 8 for a third rounder if QBs are still on the board. It’s not going to happen because the cost will be more than they’re willing to give up for a WR.

But that's the point. Miami could afford to trade up because it spent years trading back and accumulating a surplus of picks. Carolina should get on that train too. Trading down at 8 is a no-brainer if the appropriate value is there.

No you don’t. Lance is a major project. You don’t sink a top 10 pick into him if you think anything of Darnold. If you don’t think anything of Darnold, then you shouldn’t have given up more than a mid-round pick for him.

Why would the Eagles do this when they just traded down from 6 to 12? What has materially changes for them? I think the targets are NE and WFT. Maybe CHI, but I can’t see them trading up to draft a QB. That staff and FO has one year to look good, or the Bears will clean house. NE has the flexibility to move up after their FA spending spree. WFT has the flexibility because they have a really good talent foundation and a coach with a lot of job security. You might extort Denver and get a third out of them if they are really hot on Lance or Fields and want to box out one of these other teams, but pretty unlikely.

More proof that the hero worship of PFF grades is silly. That being said, Hurst and Key have a lot more talent than the end-of-roster scrubs Carolina has signed over the last two weeks. Wouldn’t be mad about claiming either of them off of waivers.

Browney

Agreed. Carolina will not get a 2022 first out of Denver to move up one pick, even for a QB. It will take Washington or New England (or Chicago or Pittsburgh, even) making a big move up.

Trading down is the absolute best move if one or more of Fields/Lance are available at 8. Get a pick in the teens, get a first round pick next year, probably get 1-2 additional mid-round picks in 2021 or 2022. You're on point that it gives Carolina the ammo to move up next year if necessary.

It's funny, you don't even understand PFF's business model. Teams are not buying their grades (which are, by the way, completely subjective grades). They're buying their tendency breakdowns and tracking stats because they would take hundreds of man hours per week for the team to put together like the old days. So you can make fun of the hero worship of the public grades that people think are objective when they're really subjective while also appreciating the parts of PFF that make it marketable to NFL and CFB teams. Draft pedigree is practically irrelevant after a guy has been in the league for 3 or 4 years or more. Do you really think the 49ers cares if Garoppolo was drafted in the 1st or 2nd round when they traded for him years later? Do you think it mattered whether Smith was drafted in the 1st round when he was traded multiple times? At some point in the NFL, you are what you are regardless of draft pedigree. Again, since you continue to ignore the question - in all of NFL history, can you find an example of a guy at QB who was drafted in the top 10 and then traded for a package that was better than that while he rode the bench for a year or two? What you propose is just a complete video games fantasy - it's not real life. The "decent" backups New England kept behind Brady were not first round picks. Cassel was drafted in the 7th round. Hoyer was an undrafted free agent. Garoppolo was basically the only guy they made a significant investment in, and they had to turn around and deal him for what you claim is cheap value. I don't think competition is a bad thing. You're making up straw men to tear down false arguments. I am fine with them keeping Teddy around for a year; if they move him, I am fine with them signing a QB or even with drafting a guy in Day 3. What I think is a bad idea is completely wasting assets, which is what Carolina is doing if it trades for Darnold and then drafts a QB in the top 10 without ever watching Darnold take a snap for the team. Ridiculous to say picks aren't that valuable after 50. I mean, that is just complete and utter falsehood. Hell, the Panthers just selected one of their best defensive assets in years at pick 64 last year. Teams should be hitting on starters or high-end backups with regularity into the third round. It really is funny how butthurt you are that Carolina isn't going to draft a QB just because you worked yourself up into loving some 50/50 proposition at QB.

Did you start watching football last year? It's the season for draft posturing. Of course they aren't going to say "nah we're good at QB." It only hurts the value of the pick to do so. Doesn't mean they're really planning on drafting one, but they have to signal that they COULD draft one. This is elementary, really. So a bad, non-sense metric is better than simply having a subjective opinion based on decades of watching football? This kind of thinking is what the garbage PFF generation hath wrought. You don't play football on a spreadsheet. By the way, if my post was so poor, you could try refuting it? Who, from that list, was not a bust that I said or implied was indeed a bust? It's not really that cheap. It's roughly in line with what the 49ers gave up for Garoppolo, what Alex Smith was been traded for the second time around (2nd + cheap player), and what the Chiefs gave up for Matt Cassel (2nd for Cassel and Mike Vrabel). Cheap is getting Tannehill + 6th for a 4th +7th. And there's really no reason to think the 2nd will be "not very high." It's more likely to be the top pick in the 2nd round than the last one, that's for sure. Likelihood is it falls somewhere between 12-17, as Carolina will be a fringe playoff team. Mediocrity is wasting four picks on one position where you can only start one guy. The Panthers can instantly upgrade another player group. If Darnold is very bad, then they'll be in position to draft another guy next year. If he isn't, then they've got their guy at least in the short-term and maybe in the long-term. This doesn't have to be hard. You'll just have to detach yourself from Trey Lance fanboyhood.

You must trade down. Someone will want to get in front of Denver for a QB. It's really the only move.